Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
You have never sounded belittling ever, and I have seen you come under fire many times, as well you and I and have had lively discussions and I never once felt like you were at all belittling and I am sure I cannot say the same for myself

And you actually write very well and clearly, and I would know because I am sitting here trying to mark term papers.:D
Wow UnderGrace, thank you. That means a lot to me. I've always noticed you as someone who is truly hungry for the things of God. And I have loved many of our conversations as well. :)

Bless you sister.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
You mean, he can't answer you the way you answer him?

You shouldn't be worried..... no one can compete with you.:rolleyes:
This proves the point I made yesterday about you trolling in oder to make mouthy comments against people you disagree with !
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Agreed. And with the added danger that to continue with them could possibly cause US to begin walking in the flesh! We've all fallen into that. Hopefully we have learned by it.
I believe this is why Paul said if we could desire any gift it would be the gift of prophesy. Because prophesy is for building up, encouraging, and seeing each other according to the Spirit. When someone starts saying we are prideful, etc. Everytime they say it, we get to choose to partner with it (according to their fleshly observation) or partner with the Spirit of God. As we speak what God says/sees in each of us according to His Word, we give people opportunity to be built up in the Lord.
 
Last edited:
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
Wow UnderGrace, thank you. That means a lot to me. I've always noticed you as someone who is truly hungry for the things of God. And I have loved many of our conversations as well. :)

Bless you sister.
i bet you love your enemies too awww your so money supermarket :)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Positional righteousness is a real thing, but it is not taught much and to be honest many really might see it, but few really understand it...In order to understand positional righteousness one must understand they are a 3 part being...a spirit with a mind, will and emotions[soul] that has a body[flesh]

At conversion the gift of righteousness makes your spirit perfect before God, your spirit is reconciled back to Father, through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ and him alone...your mind, will, emotions and flesh are never going to be perfect, but you have to renew them through renewal of the mind tot he Word of God...certain aspects of renewal, conforming and transforming arr not passive works of Christ alone...you have a part to play...not to stay saved or work for your salvation, but to grow spiritually mature and come into perfection[maturity]

Mos times people that cannot wrap their head around this Bible truth will call it sinless-perfection and attempt to state people are saying they do not sin...this is not at all what this truth states[there are a few people that take this way, but not me]

What righteousness consciousnesses truth does for me, is remove guilt, inferiority, condemnation and I am able to boldly enter the throne room of Mercy and seek and get the grace and mercy I need to help me...[Heb 4.14-16]

A very a large part of the people on this thread and in life, go through their walk without ever really coming into revelation knowledge of Jesus,Father and the Holy Spirit see them and latch onto passive works alone doctrines and see no real victory, because they do not become fully who God says they are...they also have a tendency to become careful not to get in God's way...but the Bible truth says we play a part in growing up spiritually...we are partners with God in order to grow in him....


Examples are below:
most of the time people teach this:

2 Cor 5.17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

And they never go past that verse to 5.21 which says this:

2 Cor 5.21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

People teach this:

Rom 5.8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

But never go to see this:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

People teach this:

Phil 3.12-14
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, [SUP]14 [/SUP]I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

But never catch this:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.


sin-consciousness is an infection in the body....it is not a salvation issue, but it prohibits many from every really coming into full knowledge of who they are in Christ Jesus...
Meggido

I understand what you are saying here. Just one thing though bothers me. The scripture that says we will go on if God permits...that's going on to maturity.

There's a lot of ground to be covered between Pentecost and what I call Tabernacles. Much to be understood. Soft food maybe before the meat?

And then we have Passover and not Pentecost too. So unless God reveals truth to a seeking heart? And how does one become that seeking heart? Is it not yet the work of Holy Spirit?

I see Him working moreso than our involvement. For it's always hearing..then believing then action.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
I don't say don't say anything.
I say, don't say anything while you're not walking in the Spirit and if you do become a clanging gong, apologize and start again.
The difference between that man and you, at this particular moment, is he's walking in the Spirit and you are walking in your flesh. We can all see it. So come back. :)
Did you "discern that", or did those "likes" confirm it for you?

So, "that man" is "walking in the Spirit" for stating false doctrine, & I'm the bad guy for pointing it out.

Guess we all know now where you stand.

Apparently God's strong delusion is working very well.
 
Z
Indeed.. she said in a post that an immature person announces an add to ignore. I disagreed it to be mature to warn.. she mocked me in 2 posts and then "liked" a post doing the very thing she claims is immature
Did you "discern that", or did those "likes" confirm it for you?

So, "that man" is "walking in the Spirit" for stating false doctrine, & I'm the bad guy for pointing it out.

Guess we all know now where you stand.

Apparently God's strong delusion is working very well.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
I believe this is why Paul said if we could desire any gift it would be the gift of prophesy. Because prophesy is for building up, encouraging, and seeing each other according to the Spirit. When someone starts saying we are prideful, etc. Everytime they say it, we get to choose to partner with it (according to their fleshly observation) or partner with the Spirit of God. As we speak what God says/sees in each of us according to His Word, we give people opportunity to be built up in the Lord.
Well...sometimes when someone says I am being prideful, I really AM being prideful. I'm too prideful, in fact, to take their suggestion because I can't see that I AM being prideful. (No, that's not in any way related to what went on before in here a page or so back. You were not being prideful and we all certainly saw that you weren't).

And when I do finally see it, I ask for what I lack.

Only He doesn't often supply me more humility as I have asked for, in the way that I think He will. In fact, I don't often like the way He answers my request. I do later on though. :)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,073
13,083
113
58
Aaannd, HOW does one "walk with God"? By constantly saying, "God, I believe you?"
Do unbelievers walk with God or believers? Faith is first established and then afterwards, the walk begins and not before.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
I sound belittling because I asked him if he was open to learning from others?

Let me ask you a question. Are you trying to teach me something right now? If so, don't you want me to be open to receiving from you? Or would you rather I harden my heart and not receive what you say?

I stated in my post, that I don't have it all figured out, I always seek to be open to growing and learning from other people. And I asked him if did the same.

I apologize if that came off as belittling, I'm not sure how else I could have communicated it, but it wasn't my intention I was simply trying to be honest from one brother to another. That's why I referred to him directly.

What made you so mad about what I said? I'm very confused by your response.
Notice the "play" here.....

"I can learn from you, & you can learn from me"

Problem is, I don't learn anything from false teachers..... It's against my standards.

Like you was going to receive what I say..... right. Your other buddies haven't.

I know when folks are playing psychology games, they're not following the Spirit, but being deceitful.

Some of the softest words have came out of Satan's mouth. That's how he plays people.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
Indeed.. she said in a post that an immature person announces an add to ignore. I disagreed it to be mature to warn.. she mocked me in 2 posts and then "liked" a post doing the very thing she claims is immature
I wasn't mocking you, I was joking around with you...
 
Z
I don't know you well enough to have known. Guess you weren't in the spirit to know before hand that I took it to be mocking. Either way.. You talk big but fail too
I wasn't mocking you, I was joking around with you...
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Notice the "play" here.....

"I can learn from you, & you can learn from me"

Problem is, I don't learn anything from false teachers..... It's against my standards.

Like you was going to receive what I say..... right. Your other buddies haven't.

I know when folks are playing psychology games, they're not following the Spirit, but being deceitful.

Some of the softest words have came out of Satan's mouth. That's how he plays people.
Hmm, well I ask you questions so I can better understand you and receive from you. I haven't ignored you.

In fact, I remember in the past commenting on some comments you wrote basically telling you I felt they were very insightful. Do you remember those?

But I have a question for you:

What would you say to me, if I did what you just did, how would you reply if I called you a false teacher?

Just curious.
 
Last edited:

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,073
13,083
113
58
EVERY person mentioned in Hebrews 11 had obedience (works) to validate faith.
There is a difference between "validate" faith and establish faith. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that it was "by" or "out of" faith that they accomplished these works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works). So all of these things in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but none of these actions are the essence of faith, but are the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand. We are saved through faith at it's origin, not at some time later, based on our works.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
I don't know you well enough to have known. Guess you weren't in the spirit to know before hand that I took it to be mocking. Either way.. You talk big but fail too
I fail a lot. I try to share what I've learned through the fails. I think...if I didn't have the fails, I wouldn't have anything to share about walking with Him and what I've learned. I'm sorry you thought I was mocking you.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Oh no the grace word......thank God for the greasy grace that the workers for reject in favor of a cafe blend working for dogma.....

FOR by grace are you saved through FAITH <----THE MEANS IS FAITH NOT WORKS......and the word THROUGH is clear enough....
This is so true Dcontro, and we continue everything we do by the power of the Holy Spirit - not by the works of the flesh.

"Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" Gal.3:3

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Rom3:20

Yes I Changed my avatar - tired of the old one.
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
the problem of yesterday, is when did you hear,what was spoken .

and when did you need , a dividing understanding, if you claim to hear yesterdays word.

sealed with a kiss.