Sabbath

unobtrusive · Aug 24, 2017

Let's make sure we include Ephesians with Colossians, and focus on the word "ordinances."

Italicized underlined words are added and not in the original text.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" (Ephesians 2:15)

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;...Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,(Colossians 2:14 and 20)

Now let's see the difference of the Greek between what Hebrews says about "ordinances" and then compare with Colossians and Ephesians.

Colossians and Ephesians define "ordinances" i.e. δόγμα dógma, dog'-mah; from the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):—decree, ordinance. This is carnal and physical.

Hebrews 9:1 and 10 define "ordinances" i.e. δικαίωμα dikaíōma, dik-ah'-yo-mah; from G1344; an equitable deed; by implication, a statute or decision:—judgment, justification, ordinance, righteousness. This is in relation to spiritual motivation.

"Then verily the first covenant (speaking of the temple) had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary...Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed (foreshadowed) on them until the time of reformation." (Hebrews 9:1 and 10)

They are not the same ordinances. Dógma is worldly "rudiments of the world," physical, but unrighteous pagan and Judaism (See Acts 15:10) coming from humans, and dikaíōma is physical/carnal, but righteous coming from God, foreshadowing the Spiritual.

Compare the phrase Paul uses in Colossians 2:20, in relation to "ordinances," and we see these ordinances are compared with "rudiments of the world." Obviously, the "rudiments of the world" are not the spiral aspects of the law (as Paul tells the Romans that the law is spiritual). They are worldly ordnances related to previous pagan practices before their conversion. In Ephesians they were Pharisaical ordnances that Jesus Himself condemned.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (Matthew 23:23)

In summary.. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Do any of us know it all? No, but we can walk together striving for agreement, edifying each other in the spirit of truth as we grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

JaumeJ · Aug 24, 2017

Hello Prove-All. I was going to send you a pm, but I want what I have to say to be open to all.

First I have never seen anyone quite so accurate and with such a command of composition and language. You say what I would love to be able to epress in so few words, though your posts may seem large to many, they are compact and filled with love and the hOLY sPIRIT. I suppose they are the same.

I have posted I do not like intellectuals of the Word from times past quoted becaue they ae not here to exchange in dialogue, like something is writtenin stone, but your explanations accompanying what you quote cancels that out for me.

Finally when I read you r posts I am edified gretly, and I pray all others are too. I confess I have only recently begun to read yor posts because they were kind of long for m my vision, but now I have overcome that with my new and free software for hearing teaxt.

Also, except fr a few understandable glitches, it is liek hearing you speak it. Thank you and always share your understanding; it is truly appreciated . All blessings in Jesus Christ, amen.

prove-all said:

What was the handwriting of requirements?

"And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross".

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to
the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Since it is only "those who do His commandments...{who} have the right
to enter...the city" , the ten commandments could not be "contrary to us."

Revelation specifically shows that those who break one of at least four of
the ten commandments will be outside God's city (Revelation 22:15).

the ten commandments were not "nailed to the cross," what was?
Look again at what the Bible actually says (two translations):

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NKJV)

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us,
which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way,
having nailed it to the cross.. (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances)
or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the stake, which some call a cross

Which requirements were wiped out?

the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin)
is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay

--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through
the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out
("the handwriting of requirements").

But only the penalty, not the law!

Even some Protestant commentators realize this is so. Notice what Matthew Henry's
Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us
a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14),
which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is
the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one
who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary
to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin.

This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us,
Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition,
Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

look at the Greek term exaleipho translated as "wiped out" in Colossians 2:14:

NT:1813
exaleipho (ex-al-i'-fo); from NT:1537 and NT:218; to smear out, i.e. obliterate (erase tears,
figuratively, pardon sin) (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance
with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International)

In other words, exaleipho has to do with wiping out sin. This is also confirmed in Acts 3:19
where Peter also uses the term exaleipho, which is translated as "blotted out" below:

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.

Hence, it is sin and the related penalties that are to be blotted or wiped out.
And the penalties could vary from "being unclean to the evening" (Leviticus 11:24-28)
to making an offering (Leviticus 5:5-6) to being "cut off from his people" (Leviticus 7:27)
to the death penalty (Exodus 31:14).

This is also confirmed elsewhere in the New Testament:

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
(Galatians 3:13). The curse of the law is related to the penalty. And Jesus paid it.

But what about the law of God? Was the law of God to be wiped out? No:

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill (Matthew 5:17)

While some erroneously think that Jesus, for example, did away with the Ten Commandments
by how He led His life, that most certainly was not the view of the early Christians who
continued to keep them[Paul included]

Furthermore, remember that the Bible clearly teaches that sin is lawlessness:

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know
that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. (I John 3:4-5).

Notice that Paul wrote:

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? (Romans 6:1-2).

Thus the New Testament makes clear that the law of God continues,
thus it was not nailed to the cross or somehow wiped out.

The Bible, however, also shows that the requirements of the Levitical priesthood
(Hebrews 9:1,6-10) sometimes called the law, which were part of the penalty of sin,
were blotted out.

And why?

"For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus
once for all" (Hebrews 10:4,10).

Jesus' one sacrifice was and is sufficient--we do not have to sacrifice animals any more!

Another requirement (which is related) would be the death penalty of sin,
as "the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
(Romans 6:23) or other specific ceremonial penalties associated with the Old Testament
statutes (such as making a sin offering, being put outside the camp, or washing).

loveme1 · Aug 24, 2017

JaumeJ said:

Hello Prove-All. I was going to send you a pm, but I want what I have to say to be open to all.

First I have never seen anyone quite so accurate and with such a command of composition and language. You say what I would love to be able to epress in so few words, though your posts may seem large to many, they are compact and filled with love and the hOLY sPIRIT. I suppose they are the same.

I have posted I do not like intellectuals of the Word from times past quoted becaue they ae not here to exchange in dialogue, like something is writtenin stone, but your explanations accompanying what you quote cancels that out for me.

Finally when I read you r posts I am edified gretly, and I pray all others are too. I confess I have only recently begun to read yor posts because they were kind of long for m my vision, but now I have overcome that with my new and free software for hearing teaxt.

Also, except fr a few understandable glitches, it is liek hearing you speak it. Thank you and always share your understanding; it is truly appreciated . All blessings in Jesus Christ, amen.

So many wise and knowledgable servants.. each given their part.. humbling to witness.... all glory to Heavenly Father and the Messiah.

such confidence...

i personally seek not a greek word but when it reinforces what you believe it is all the Holy Spirit working.

prove-all · Aug 24, 2017

Enow said:

What Was This COLLECTION on the first day? the eighth and last place
where the term “first day of the week” occurs in the Bible.

Churches us this text they say sets the first day of the week [sunday] as the time
for taking up the church collection of money,for paying the minister, etc.

Lets see what the true intended meaning of this verse is.

“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia,
even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,
as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.”

This speaks of a collection—but for whom—for what? Note it! Not for the preacher
—not for evangelism—but “the collection for the saints.” The poor saints at Jerusalem
were suffering from drought and famine. They needed, not money, but food.

Notice Paul had given similar instruction to other churches[not all].
Now observe his instruction to the Romans:

“But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them
of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian church was located] to make a certain
contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit,
I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15:25-28).

Ah! Did you catch it? It was not money, but fruit that was being sealed for shipment to
the poor saints at Jerusalem! (The Greek word can also refer to grain, wine, and other
produce which can be stored a long time without spoiling.)

Now turn back to 1 Corinthians 16. Paul is speaking concerning a collection for the saints.
Upon the first day of the week each one of them is instructed to do what? Look at it!
Does it say drop a coin in the collection plate at a church service? Not at all!

It says, “[L]et every one of you lay by him in STORE.” Note it! Lay by! Store up!
Store up by himself—at home! Not lay by at the church house—lay by him—at home.

Now why? “[T]hat there be no gatherings when I come.” Men gather fruit out of the orchard
—they gather vegetables out of the ground, to be stored up. But putting coins in a collection
plate at church, or handing in your tithe envelope could not be called a gathering,
but an offering or collection.

Notice further: “And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters,
them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also,
they [more than one] shall go with me” (verses 3-4).

Apparently it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and
stored up, to Jerusalem. If it were tithe or offering for the minister or the spread of
the gospel, Paul could have carried the money alone.

In the Bible where we find “the first day of the week” mentioned, it is a workday
—a day for gathering fruit and food out of the orchards and the fields and gardens,
and storing it up. It was to be the first labor of the week, hence the first day of the week,

as soon as the Sabbath was past!

Enow · Aug 24, 2017

unobtrusive said:

I had boldened and underlined what scripture is to testify of to bring us to Him for life.

Scripture is not given to testify of the sabbath day to be above Jesus Christ as if keeping it is for life.

John 5:[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So if you search the scripture for the sabbath day, then what are you preaching now as a gospel?

You & prove-all imply ordinances to mean pagan practices while another poster imply ordinances to only mean the ceremonial laws of Moses.

You both go round about in scripture making your federal case for your inference, but you guys have to know you are both wrong when both sides are proving the other side wrong for their inference.

The fact that you guys oppose each other is why Paul nor any of His disciples made an effort to clarify that believers, Jews & Gentiles alike, were to keep the sabbath day if they really did that back then.

They did not.

But you guys are going to keep working to preach the keeping of the sabbath day because you have to work at it for it is not plainly instructed to any church to keep the sabbath day and for all the hooplah that you guys are giving it, there is certainly no warning or otherwise prophetic on how bad it is in the latter days because they did not keep the sabbath day.

Not one church in Revelation; 5 had to be warned to repent or else... called any of them to repent of not keeping the sabbath day and the 2 that were encouraged, hardly commended any of them for keeping the sabbath day.

Oh, I am sure you can find a Bible version that you can infer lawlessness as meaning the breaking of the commandment of keeping the sabbath day without actually saying it, thus that is you inferring that again, but there are enough verses to reprove judging believers for not keeping the sabbath day.

Romans 14:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.[SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.[SUP]10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Now are you guys reading the above reference line by line, precept upon precept.. or are you still glossing over it as if somehow by some miracle, Paul could never be including the sabbath day in that?

unobtrusive · Aug 24, 2017

Enow said:

I had boldened and underlined what scripture is to testify of to bring us to Him for life.

Scripture is not given to testify of the sabbath day to be above Jesus Christ as if keeping it is for life.

John 5:[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So if you search the scripture for the sabbath day, then what are you preaching now as a gospel?

You & prove-all imply ordinances to mean pagan practices while another poster imply ordinances to only mean the ceremonial laws of Moses.

You both go round about in scripture making your federal case for your inference, but you guys have to know you are both wrong when both sides are proving the other side wrong for their inference.

The fact that you guys oppose each other is why Paul nor any of His disciples made an effort to clarify that believers, Jews & Gentiles alike, were to keep the sabbath day if they really did that back then.

They did not.

But you guys are going to keep working to preach the keeping of the sabbath day because you have to work at it for it is not plainly instructed to any church to keep the sabbath day and for all the hooplah that you guys are giving it, there is certainly no warning or otherwise prophetic on how bad it is in the latter days because they did not keep the sabbath day.

Not one church in Revelation; 5 had to be warned to repent or else... called any of them to repent of not keeping the sabbath day and the 2 that were encouraged, hardly commended any of them for keeping the sabbath day.

Oh, I am sure you can find a Bible version that you can infer lawlessness as meaning the breaking of the commandment of keeping the sabbath day without actually saying it, thus that is you inferring that again, but there are enough verses to reprove judging believers for not keeping the sabbath day.

Romans 14:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.[SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.[SUP]10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Now are you guys reading the above reference line by line, precept upon precept.. or are you still glossing over it as if somehow by some miracle, Paul could never be including the sabbath day in that?

2 Peter 3:15-18 KJV
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

JaumeJ · Aug 25, 2017

Thank you for your constant and fruitful efforts.

prove-all said:

What Was This COLLECTION on the first day? the eighth and last place
where the term “first day of the week” occurs in the Bible.

Churches us this text they say sets the first day of the week [sunday] as the time
for taking up the church collection of money,for paying the minister, etc.

Lets see what the true intended meaning of this verse is.

“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia,
even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,
as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.”

This speaks of a collection—but for whom—for what? Note it! Not for the preacher
—not for evangelism—but “the collection for the saints.” The poor saints at Jerusalem
were suffering from drought and famine. They needed, not money, but food.

Notice Paul had given similar instruction to other churches[not all].
Now observe his instruction to the Romans:

“But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them
of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian church was located] to make a certain
contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit,
I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15:25-28).

Ah! Did you catch it? It was not money, but fruit that was being sealed for shipment to
the poor saints at Jerusalem! (The Greek word can also refer to grain, wine, and other
produce which can be stored a long time without spoiling.)

Now turn back to 1 Corinthians 16. Paul is speaking concerning a collection for the saints.
Upon the first day of the week each one of them is instructed to do what? Look at it!
Does it say drop a coin in the collection plate at a church service? Not at all!

It says, “[L]et every one of you lay by him in STORE.” Note it! Lay by! Store up!
Store up by himself—at home! Not lay by at the church house—lay by him—at home.

Now why? “[T]hat there be no gatherings when I come.” Men gather fruit out of the orchard
—they gather vegetables out of the ground, to be stored up. But putting coins in a collection
plate at church, or handing in your tithe envelope could not be called a gathering,
but an offering or collection.

Notice further: “And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters,
them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also,
they [more than one] shall go with me” (verses 3-4).

Apparently it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and
stored up, to Jerusalem. If it were tithe or offering for the minister or the spread of
the gospel, Paul could have carried the money alone.

In the Bible where we find “the first day of the week” mentioned, it is a workday
—a day for gathering fruit and food out of the orchards and the fields and gardens,
and storing it up. It was to be the first labor of the week, hence the first day of the week,

as soon as the Sabbath was past!

loveme1 · Aug 25, 2017

1 Corinthians 7

17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. 18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Does this teach that what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God?

beta · Aug 25, 2017

Bogadile said:

WHY should Jesus have to TELL us to keep the Sabbath ?
The thing is that
WHEN we are IN Christ - or Christ is IN us we will automatically DO as HE does !!! How could we do DIFFERENT while being PART or ONE with another ?
Please think about that for a minute friend !
Now...if you are going to say that Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was a Jew you will be right PHYSICALLY speaking....but
we are to become SPIRITUAL minded , that is the purpose of our conversion Eph 4v23 and become a new Creature/Being/Man.
Jesus became OBEDIENT to the Father and kept HIS Commandments of which the Sabbath is 'holy and eternal.
So....walking with Jesus 24/7 we will show obedience to Him as we are commanded Heb 5v8,9.

beta · Aug 25, 2017

prove-all said:

What Was This COLLECTION on the first day? the eighth and last place
where the term “first day of the week” occurs in the Bible.

Churches us this text they say sets the first day of the week [sunday] as the time
for taking up the church collection of money,for paying the minister, etc.

Lets see what the true intended meaning of this verse is.

“Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia,
even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,
as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.”

This speaks of a collection—but for whom—for what? Note it! Not for the preacher
—not for evangelism—but “the collection for the saints.” The poor saints at Jerusalem
were suffering from drought and famine. They needed, not money, but food.

Notice Paul had given similar instruction to other churches[not all].
Now observe his instruction to the Romans:

“But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them
of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian church was located] to make a certain
contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit,
I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15:25-28).

Ah! Did you catch it? It was not money, but fruit that was being sealed for shipment to
the poor saints at Jerusalem! (The Greek word can also refer to grain, wine, and other
produce which can be stored a long time without spoiling.)

Now turn back to 1 Corinthians 16. Paul is speaking concerning a collection for the saints.
Upon the first day of the week each one of them is instructed to do what? Look at it!
Does it say drop a coin in the collection plate at a church service? Not at all!

It says, “[L]et every one of you lay by him in STORE.” Note it! Lay by! Store up!
Store up by himself—at home! Not lay by at the church house—lay by him—at home.

Now why? “[T]hat there be no gatherings when I come.” Men gather fruit out of the orchard
—they gather vegetables out of the ground, to be stored up. But putting coins in a collection
plate at church, or handing in your tithe envelope could not be called a gathering,
but an offering or collection.

Notice further: “And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters,
them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also,
they [more than one] shall go with me” (verses 3-4).

Apparently it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and
stored up, to Jerusalem. If it were tithe or offering for the minister or the spread of
the gospel, Paul could have carried the money alone.

In the Bible where we find “the first day of the week” mentioned, it is a workday
—a day for gathering fruit and food out of the orchards and the fields and gardens,
and storing it up. It was to be the first labor of the week, hence the first day of the week,

as soon as the Sabbath was past!

Absolutely agree with you !!!

LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Hi Enow,

Thanks for your post. From what I can see you seem to be going all over the place talking about the Sabbath providing different arguments as opposed to my last post to you referring to Col 2:14-17. This is ok as there is some relation, but it has not really addressed my first post which I will talk further with you after we look at everything in your current posts. I may have to post in sections as I can’t fit them all in one post which should be ok and easier to read rather than one large post so hope you do not mind. Starting comments below for your consideration below.

Enow said:

Good question although I am not sure what you are referring to by pagan practices. Maybe that was a response to some other post? So let’s get back to your question of contention.

What was against us is clear from V14 which says it was the Handwriting of Ordinances. 14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

What was the handwriting of ordinances?

The two Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinanceG1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree;

The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. The handwriting of ordinances are the ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and nailed to the cross.

What is this legal written document or book (handwriting of ordinances) that includes the civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws referring to?

There was two sets of laws that were given to God’s people in the Old Testament scriptures.

(1) God’s Law (10 commandments) pointed out what sin was and the penalty of sin which is death. It was never a cure for sin in the Old Testament as well as in the New. It only gives a knowledge of what sin is and righteousness (right doing) (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Ps 119:172).

(2) The laws of Moses was the second set of laws and included all thecivil, ceremonial, and ecclesiastical laws. These laws could not tell you what sin was this was the job of God’s Law,however the laws of Moses were the prescriptive cure for sin in the Old Covenant. These laws included all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, sacrificial burnt offerings for sin, annual festivals and earthly sanctuary services for sin. These laws were the cure for sin so the sinner could be made right with God. These where all prophetic in nature, teaching the plan of salvation which pointing to Jesus as the true lamb of God and our great high priest and His Work on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. (Leviticus 1; 3-12; 14-17; 22-23; Number 6-8; 15; 28-29; Deut 12; 33; Ex 25:8; John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28)

From the above it can be seen that God’s Law was written on stone and the laws of Moses in a book. God’s Law is forever and only points out what sin is but was never a cure for sin (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

The laws of Moses included all the ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws that were the cure for sin with all the sin offerings and earthly Sanctuary services, annual festivals and sin offerings which were prophetic in nature and temporary pointing to the life, death, resurrection of Jesus and his role as the true lamb of God and your great high priest to atone for our sins (John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28). The handwriting of ordinances (ceremonial laws and ordinances written in a book) is referring to the ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses which included the Jewish annual festivals and sin offerings that pointed to Jesus.

Why were the ceremonial laws of Moses (handwriting of ordinances) against us and nailed to the cross?

Jesus was our true sacrifice for our sins and the saviour of the world that the ceremonial laws of Moses all pointed to. When Jesus came and died the old Covenant laws of Moses that pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation was fulfilled (John 1:29; 36; Rev 5:6; 1Cor 5:6-7; Heb 8:2-13; 9:1-28). Jesus is our true Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and our sacrifice for our sins. It is our sins as well as the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross at the death of Jesus (Col 2:14; John 3:16).

There should be enough scriptures to see that the handwriting of ordinances is clearly referring to the ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws of Moses that pertained to the cleansing of sin in the Old Covenant. These where all prophetic in nature and were shadows pointing to the God’s plan of salvation and our true sacrifice in Jesus. Once Jesus had come there was no longer any need for sin offering of any type whatsoever. Jesus was the Lamb of God the ceremonial laws all pointed to and were fulfilled in Him. This ending of the ceremonial laws of Moses is also amplified in the following scriptures that took place at the death of Jesus.

Mat 27:50-51,
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

So yes it was the ceremonial laws that were nailed to the cross along with our sins because they were a shadow of things to come which was Christ (not the Sabbath).

God's Blessing

LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Dear Enow,

Some further comments for your consideration below

Enow said:

The ceremonial laws were all shadows that pointed to Jesus as the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. This is highlighted further in verse Col 2:17 and is the reason why they were nailed to the cross with our sins. Now that Jesus has come the shadows disappear.

(John 1:29; 1Cor 5:7-8; Heb 9:21-26)

The Gentiles did not need to be under the ceremonial laws because these were for Israel or God’s people in the Old Covenant. Once Jesus died we are in the New Covenant. The gospel is now shared with all people including the Gentiles (Matt 28:19).

Enow said:

To understand this better you need to have a background in the Old Testament feast days as well as the Greek word used for sabbath in Col 2:16.
The Greek word for sabbath used in Col 2:16 G4521; σάββατο; is sabbaton which means to cease from secular labour, stop work, rest. It does not necessarily need to refer to the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath commandment. In Leviticus Chapter 23, there is special days within the Jewish annual festivals which are called a Holy convocation. These are special days that can fall on any day of the week. They are not a regular weekly 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath according to God’s Law (Ex 20:8-11) but are a sabbaton (Greek) meaning no secular work was allowed and work was to cease and these days which were called Holy convocations which were feast days where no work was allowed it was not necessarily a weekly Sabbath from God’s Law (10 commandments) they were a sabbath (sabbaton) as used in the Greek cease from work and rest.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton simply means to cease from secular work; rest and is applicable to the Holy convocation days of the annual Jewish feasts that are now done away in Christ.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals as well as the Holy convocations (Sabbaton to cease from work and rest) could fall on any day of the week depending on the year the festival was starting. The Holy convocations were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts and the end. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days (not to be confused with God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day weekly commandment) and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

A High Sabbath day however was when a Holy convocation from an annual feast day fell on the same day as God’s weekly Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11). This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

So in the context of Col 2:14 which is the blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances which are the ceremonial laws of Moses with all the sin offering the pointed to Jesus which was finished at the cross with our sins. The Sabbaton (sabbath(s) plural) are referring to the annual ceremonial festivals and Holy convocations that all pointed to Jesus. Now that Jesus has come they are nailed to the cross with our sins.

In Christ Always!

Enow · Aug 25, 2017

unobtrusive said:

Growing in grace now, are we? And in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, or the sabbath day?

In what spirit are you keeping the sabbath day?

Believers that gives tithes, claim they do so because they love the Lord and they want to give Him their tithes.

But then, the same believers judged others believers for not giving tithes; they go on and on, judging them as robbing from God's House and not showing love for God & thus sinning, with a rather off the cuff judgment that they love mammon more than God.

That hardly convinces anyone that these believers that gives tithes do it because they want to or that they do so because they love God when they HAVE TO DO IT!!!!

So in what spirit are you honoring the Lord Jesus Christ on the sabbath day?

If you claim that you do it because you want to and that you love God, but yet condemn others for not honoring the Lord on the sabbath day, then that makes you look like you HAVE TO DO IT !!!!

Nobody can see you as wanting to do it nor loving God for why you do it when you have to do it.

That is not using scripture to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

That is bringing others in the same bondage you are in where you have to keep the sabbath day.

You might as well teach getting circumcision, because you sure do miss the point of the book of Galatians. I would suggest reading it in the KJV with Him, too, for the meat of His words.

As it is, you are not growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ in regards to the keeping of the sabbath day. You are not treating the sabbath day as something you want to observe in showing your love for God, but you are treating it as something you have to do to avoid sinning against God and heading towards self destruction.

Your words of condemnation betrays you and shows what spirit you are really honoring the Lord by on the sabbath day... which I point out, is hardly honoring the Lord at all on the sabbath day.

You are making the sabbath day lord over Jesus Christ as well as lord over you.

LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Dear Enow continuing

Enow said:

Romans 14 is a nice chapter. I believe it is talking about a similar theme to Colossians chapter 2 that we are now discussing in reference to the annual Jewish festivals and holy-days.However, the context of this chapter is a dispute between the Gentiles and the Jewish converts judging each other over days of reverence to God and eating ceremonially unclean food (Romans 14:4-6; 10; Rom 14:14 G2839).

The passage context reveals that Romans 14:5 refers to the Jewish institutions and especially their festivals such as the Passover, Day of Atonement, the new moons etc, and meat sacrificed to idols. The Bible never refers to the Lord's Sabbath as just a day. It is always called The Sabbath or Sabbath Day.
Some Jews who did not yet know or understand the Gospel message thought these days still had to be observed while the Gentile Christian not having ever kept these feast days knew they were under no obligation to keep them. Consequently there was disagreement between Jews and Gentiles over keeping these sacrificial feasts that ended at the cross.

So Paul is instructing them to consider those whose faith enables them to immediately to leave behind all ceremonial holidays and not to despise others whose faith is not as strong. And also for the latter to not criticize those who seem to them to be more lax but are not as they understand they are under no obligation to keep these Jewish feast days that were instituted because of sin and hence why they ended at the cross. This is what caused the enmity between Jew and Gentiles before the cross that Paul spoke of in Ephesians 2:15 “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.”

In Romans 14 there is not one word mentioning God’s Sabbath so this is not relevant to God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath.

LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Dear Enow..continuing

[FONT=&quot]

Enow said:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Already posted about the ceremonial laws being shadows above because they all pointed to Jesus and God’s plan of salvation. (e.g. no more burnt offerings and festivals etc that pointed to Jesus as our sacrificial lamb and Passover etc.) So I will not comment further here but if you would like more clarification let me know. Let’s discuss Hebrews Chapter 4. This is how I see the chapter.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
HEB 4[/FONT][SUP][FONT=&quot][/FONT][/SUP]

[FONT=&quot][SUP]1[/SUP] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[SUP]2[/SUP] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3[/SUP] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]4[/SUP] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
[SUP]6[/SUP] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[SUP]7[/SUP] Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[SUP]8[/SUP] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[SUP]9[/SUP] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11[/SUP] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
[SUP]12[/SUP] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Key Scripture points

* Fear that the promise being left us any of us should fall short of entering God’s rest (v1)

* The Gospel was preached to the people in the Wilderness as well as us. The Word did not profit those in the wilderness because of their unbeliefit (v2)
* For we which have believed do enter into His Rest. The people in the wilderness that did not believe God did not enter into His Rest even though works were finished from the foundation of the world (v3)
* Speaking of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath and the last day of the creation week (Gen 2:1-3) (v4)
* God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3), those that believe enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest those that do not believe do not enter into God’s 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (v5-6)
* Harden not your heart in unbelief (v7-8)
* There is a rest for the people of God (v9)
* Those that enter into God’s rest cease from works as God did v10
* We should labour to enter into God’s rest (Gen 2:1-3) faith in God’s Word (rest through believing God) v11
* The Word of God is powerful. v12

Please go back and look at the Greek meaning of the word "rest" used in Heb 4:9 its meaning is resting through keeping of a Sabbath or Sabbath observance. (I have provided Greek links below)

“There remaineth therefore a [Sabbath] rest [SUP]4520[/SUP] to the people of God.” (NAS; Heb 4:9)
The Greek word literally means “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance.” (links below)
Strong's Concordance 4520
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Strong's Greek 4520
σαββατισμὸς — 1 Occ.
Hebrews 4:9 N-NMS
GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ
NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people
KJV: therefore a rest to the people
INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός
σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath); 1. a keeping sabbath. 2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)

So let’s pull Hebrews 4:1-12 all together?

The context is God’s rest from the week of creation on the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day of the creation week (Heb 4:1-5). Those that did not enter into God’s rest (7th Day Sabbath) did not enter in because of their unbelief and disobedience (sins) to God’s Word. The Gospel was preached unto them but they did not believe it (Heb 4:2). God did not give them His true rest (Heb 4:5-8). This is the same warning for those that disobey Him and do not follow His Word. Only those that believe and obey God’s Word enter into his 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath rest (Heb 4:6, 9, 10-12). So you can see Jesus is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th Day of the Week. Jesus is Lord of this Day because he is the creator of this day (Heb 4:4; Mark 2:28-29). There is no scripture in all of God’s Word that says that Jesus is a Sabbath only that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and he made it for all of mankind and commands us to keep it as a holy day as a memorial of creation (Mark 2:27-28; Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11)

God's Blessing
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LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Dear Enow.... continuing

Enow said:

Actually it is not. It is about believing and following God by faith. Although the process of salvation and forgiveness of sin was different. The Old covenant followed the ceremonial laws of Moses of animal sacrifices for forgiveness of sin. God’s people in the Old covenant were saved by the faith they had in God’s Word and following what God said to them. The whole of Galatians 3 and Hebrews 11 are a good read for this check it out. I will just post a few scriptures below to make the point but read Galatians 3, Hebrews 11, Romans and elsewhere for more info.

Gal 3:2,
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:6, Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7, Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8, And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9, So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:14, That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:16, Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17, And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Hab 2:4, Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 4:16, Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17, As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18, Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19, And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Heb 11:4, By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5, By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:7, By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8, By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9, By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10, For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11, Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Heb 11:17, By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19, Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20, By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21, By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22, By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23, By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24, By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25, Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26, Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27, By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28, Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29, By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30, By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31, By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32, ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33, Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35, Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36, And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37, They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38, (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39, And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

You get the picture

God's Blessings

LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Enow..continuing

[FONT=&quot]

Enow said:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The context of Acts chapter 15 is in relation to the ceremonial laws of Moses as the context of Acts chapter 15 is in relation to the Jewish believers insisting that the Gentile believers be circumcised. This caused great division between Paul, Barnabas and the Apostles (Acts 15:1-2). This resulted in the trip of Paul to meet with the Apostles. During this time the scriptures tell us (Acts 15:4) Act 15:5, There rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As has already been shown elsewhere the ceremonial laws of Moses ceased at the death of Jesus. The 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath was never part of the ceremonial laws of Moses which were a shadow of things to come just as circumcision in Acts 15 represents circumcision of the heart to love God and our neighbour.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rom 2:29 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The context is in relation to the ceremonial laws of Moses which were nailed to the Cross. Not God’s Law (10 commandments) which the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is a part. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The is no scripture that tells us that the Gentiles were not already keeping the Sabbath day Holy according to the commandment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 17:1, Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 17:2, And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 17:3, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 17:4, And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 13:42, And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 13:44, And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act 18:4, And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As believers there is no separation of Jews and Gentiles as we are all spiritual Israel. The name Israel" was a name given by God himself to represent his people. It has its origin from Gen 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel. This is God's people and today anyone that is following Jesus is part of God's spiritual Israel according to God's Word. The same New Covenant is written for God's people who are now spiritual Israe. Scripture support;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:28-29, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is neither Jew nor Greek[/FONT][FONT=&quot], there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col 3:11,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Where there is neither Greek nor Jew,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rom 10:11-13,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rom 2:28-29, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:33-4,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 8:10-12,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 10:14-17,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gal 3:29, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To say that Acts 15 is talking about God’s Law and that because God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment was not mentioned contradicts other scriptures. Using that same argument one could say murder, stealing covetous, using God’s name in vain, adultery, not honouring your mother and father is allowed for Gentile believers because it was not mentioned in Acts 15. This chapter is only talking about circumcision and the ceremonial laws of Moses which were nailed to the cross with our sins, not God’s 10 commandments. God does not have one set of laws for literal Jewish believers and another set of laws for Gentile believers. Hope you do not mind me showing the conclusion of your argument in Acts 15. Hope it makes sense.

God bless
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Dear Enow... continuing

Enow said:

Matt 12:1-7 is in reference to doing good on the Sabbath. The Jews had placed so many restrictions on the Sabbath that it had become a burden to the people and impossible to keep (context is Matt 12:2; see also Matt 12:10; Mark 2:24; 3:2-4 Luke 6:2; 7-9; 13:10-16 etc.) Then in Matt 12:10-12 in the same chapter Jesus goes on to say it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath! Jesus came to teach us how to keep the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:4; Luke 6:9) and is why Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27). This is why God’s Word says If anyone is knowingly and wilfully breaking any of the 10 commandments, including the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath you are deceiving yourself and not obeying or following God (James 2:8-12).

Jam 2:8-12
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

I will post some other scripture for consideration latter have to go for now. Nice talking to you. Forgive me if I am slow as I am not here all the time.

In Christ Always

LoveGodForever · Aug 25, 2017

Dear Enow,

You seem to be of the mindset that the Sabbath is a Shadow although all the scriptures I have sent already disprove this idea. But lets look at it from a different viewpoint and from creation found in Genesis.

GEN 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:
* God finished all the work of creation on the 7th Day of the week (v1)
* God ended His Work on the 7th Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)
* God blessed the 7th Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7th Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7th Day and was the result of a FINISHED work!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7th Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.

So in summary the 7th Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man. If it was a part of a FINISHED work then it cannot be a Shadow of salvation because a Shadow was part of an UNFINISHED work given in the laws of Moses and was given AFTER the fall of mankind where the Sabbath was made before the fall.

Whichever why you want to look at it, God's 4th commandment the 7th Day Sabbath was never a Shadow of anything. If it is not a Shadow then we are accountable to God if we break it because it is one of God's 10 commandments which show us what sin is (1 John 3:4)

Jam 2:8-12,
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

In Christ Always!

Enow · Aug 25, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

When Paul is addressing how any believer esteem any day or regard any day as unto the Lord, it cannot exclude the sabbath day.

Do set aside every learned lesson you had from SDA and please read what Paul is actually saying here for why no believer can judge another believer for how they esteem or regard a day unto the Lord or not esteem nor regard a day as unto the Lord for the reason why is because they are the Lord's.

Romans 14:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.[SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Sabbath

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