Is Jesus still God and Man?
- Thread starter Locutus
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I do not know why, whole the sentence is in a present tense.
But it is an interesting question, if Jesus became a man by birth from Mary and stays this way for ever, it means that God has changed.
Maybe it changed only His position towards His creation, not Him as if He would gain some new attribute.
But it is an interesting question, if Jesus became a man by birth from Mary and stays this way for ever, it means that God has changed.
Maybe it changed only His position towards His creation, not Him as if He would gain some new attribute.
Last edited:
Yes...I agree.
Jesus stands as our representative before the Father and He makes intercession for us - which means "He stands in our place". He pleads our case.
He is spiritually the last Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:45 (NASB)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,for only a sinless man can reconcile the world back to God.No person is sinless,so God manifest Himself in flesh,and became that sinless man,God and man in harmony.
God's right hand represents power,salvation,wisdom.
Jesus at the right hand of God means that He exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power until His enemies are conquered,and then the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power,that God may be all in all.
God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints,and is a temporary position,and then the Son shall no longer be at the right hand of God,that God may be all in all.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
There is only one throne in heaven,and one who sits on the throne.There is not two thrones,and Jesus sits next to the Father,for that is not what the Bible means when it says Jesus is at the right hand of God.
Jesus is still God and man,and always will be according to His visible manifestation,and the throne in heaven is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and is the invisible God's visible relationship to the saints for all eternity.
There is only one throne in heaven,not two,and it is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven,and like He said to Philip,if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,for only a sinless man can reconcile the world back to God.No person is sinless,so God manifest Himself in flesh,and became that sinless man,God and man in harmony.
God's right hand represents power,salvation,wisdom.
Jesus at the right hand of God means that He exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power until His enemies are conquered,and then the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power,that God may be all in all.
God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints,and is a temporary position,and then the Son shall no longer be at the right hand of God,that God may be all in all.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
There is only one throne in heaven,and one who sits on the throne.There is not two thrones,and Jesus sits next to the Father,for that is not what the Bible means when it says Jesus is at the right hand of God.
Jesus is still God and man,and always will be according to His visible manifestation,and the throne in heaven is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and is the invisible God's visible relationship to the saints for all eternity.
There is only one throne in heaven,not two,and it is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven,and like He said to Philip,if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father.
This was the text for our sermon this morning.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already." 1 John 4:1-3
The sermon used this in context of gnosticism. Which is a heresy, in which the body and matter are seen as evil. Matter and the body are not evil, although they are fallen!
"And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day." Genesis 1:21
"But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many." Romans 5:15
I guess the essence of whether Jesus stayed a man, after he ascended to heaven, is the question, "Did Jesus have a physical body after the resurrection?"
"Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”" John 20:27-28
Right here, Jesus has a very physical body, complete with the nail scarred hands and side. And yet, Thomas acknowledges him as God. And Jesus goes to heaven with a body.
"And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes,11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11
Why would Jesus lose his physical body, and suddenly become only Spirit? In fact, this is the essence of the error of gnosticism. That we will lose our bodies, at the resurrection! In fact, God created us to have bodies, and Jesus did, too! So, if he has a body, he must be a man.
I don't see that changing after the ascension, or the angels would not have said, "This SAME Jesus." Same, as in both God and man.
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head!
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already." 1 John 4:1-3
The sermon used this in context of gnosticism. Which is a heresy, in which the body and matter are seen as evil. Matter and the body are not evil, although they are fallen!
"And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day." Genesis 1:21
"But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many." Romans 5:15
I guess the essence of whether Jesus stayed a man, after he ascended to heaven, is the question, "Did Jesus have a physical body after the resurrection?"
"Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”" John 20:27-28
Right here, Jesus has a very physical body, complete with the nail scarred hands and side. And yet, Thomas acknowledges him as God. And Jesus goes to heaven with a body.
"And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes,11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” Acts 1:9-11
Why would Jesus lose his physical body, and suddenly become only Spirit? In fact, this is the essence of the error of gnosticism. That we will lose our bodies, at the resurrection! In fact, God created us to have bodies, and Jesus did, too! So, if he has a body, he must be a man.
I don't see that changing after the ascension, or the angels would not have said, "This SAME Jesus." Same, as in both God and man.
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head!
I don't think that is necessarily the error of the Gnostic's, from what I've read Gnosticism was quite a bit later than John according to more up to date research.
Jesus was deity before his incarnation, so I still question why after his ascension he retained a form of a man.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
If John did not know what we would be like, so that begs the question if he was like a man then John would gnow...
...this - pun intended
Jesus was deity before his incarnation, so I still question why after his ascension he retained a form of a man.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
If John did not know what we would be like, so that begs the question if he was like a man then John would gnow...
...this - pun intended
I don't think that is necessarily the error of the Gnostic's, from what I've read Gnosticism was quite a bit later than John according to more up to date research.
Jesus was deity before his incarnation, so I still question why after his ascension he retained a form of a man.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
If John did not know what we would be like, so that begs the question if he was like a man then John would gnow......this - pun intended
Jesus was deity before his incarnation, so I still question why after his ascension he retained a form of a man.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
If John did not know what we would be like, so that begs the question if he was like a man then John would gnow...
...this - pun intended
Full fledged gnosticism certainly wasn't until the second century. But John reputedly lived till almost the end of the first century. And there is evidence of a sort of proto-gnosticism in the first century. The fact that John is addressing the fact that people are saying Jesus didn't come in the flesh, definitely suggests that it had already become an issue when John wrote this epistle.
Gnosticism was a philosophy that said the body was evil. Yet, Jesus was flesh and blood, and there was no evil in him. Of course, gnosticism also had "secret" knowledge, the root of the word, gnostic. But the point of that secret knowledge was that people could find their own way to heaven once imparted with this knowledge. And that escaping outer bodies was the goal of gnosticism, which is the exact opposite of a resurrected body living on a restored earth !
The point being, what we will be, is because we have not yet seen Jesus face to face! (1 Cor. 13:12) It is not about some altered super spiritual or changed state. We will be like him, with resurrected bodies, that is the promise of Scripture!
Here is a good article for you to read, with all the Scriptures.
Will the resurrection of the body be a physical resurrection from the dead? | Desiring God
Jesus is the first new man. We will be like him. That is what 1 John 3:2 is saying! We will be like him, because we will see him as he is! Not God, like him, of course, but we will have resurrected bodies, and we will be like Jesus in character! That is, sin will no longer tempt us! I can hardly wait for that day!
In the beginning the Word of God was with God and was God. All things were made by Him... And He was made a little lower than the angels (ie, no longer God) and was born of woman. His ministry only started after the Holy Spirit came upon Him, so it was in obedience to Father that He did all the miracles etc, powered by the Holy Spirit. In John 17 Jesus prayed, in verse 5 He asked to be restored to His former glory that He had in the beginning. In Rev 19.13 He is once again called the Word of God. Not only was He restored to His former glory, but He was lifted up and made ruler over all. There's an interesting reason why Father did that.
When Jesus appeared to Thomas and the others, his body was NOT the same - Mary didn't recognize him (16,17) . . . he appeared in the midst of the disciples (v19) even though the doors were shut. He had not yet ascended to the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:45 (NASB)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Jesus became a life-giving spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45 (NASB)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Jesus became a life-giving spirit.
Um, No. The empty tomb demonstrates that Jesus rose in the same body, although glorified, that he was crucified in. The following scripture supports this:
"Why are you troubled,” Jesus asked, “and why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
When the resurrection takes place, they will rise, their bodies being glorified, but will have a body of flesh and bone like Jesus, but with heavenly characteristics, which is referred to as a spiritual body. Remember, spiritual does not mean invisible and intangible.
"Why are you troubled,” Jesus asked, “and why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
When the resurrection takes place, they will rise, their bodies being glorified, but will have a body of flesh and bone like Jesus, but with heavenly characteristics, which is referred to as a spiritual body. Remember, spiritual does not mean invisible and intangible.