Not By Works

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willybob

Guest
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

faith IS a work of love, and it establishes the law.."ie" walking after the Spirit....but works of the flesh, either Jew of Gentile availeth nothing
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I've wondered this same thing. Why so much vitriol from supposedly Christ loving, born again people who love him and anxiously want to serve him because, as even they themselves say, that is what will surely happen in people who genuinely believe???
Vitriol from who?
 
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willybob

Guest
Your true self is emerging, may I suggest you take a break?

Just because you have never heard of something does not make untrue....this is the first rule of any serious scholar, secular or Christian...will never violate....they will seek, study and find the answer....In this case, history and commentary refute you and soundly....

It is also very evident you have no clue about Gnostic doctrine and the fact it is very much alive today and is at the very core of the spirit of antichrist that is in the world now....Instead of manifesting senseless eisegesis about this subject it would be wisdom for you to study it out beyond CC.

You are overreacting because the truth of this passage proves without any doubt that it is not at all talking about salvation and takes away an apologetic weapon people think they have had forever....

Wisdom would make you relax and ask the question, why did John talk about the spirit of antichrist and constantly and consistently warn believers not to believe people when they said Jesus was not the supreme being or savior....

Answer that.... and you may grow beyond the level you are most comfortable staying in...
In addition; most of Christian Theology is derived from the mind of Plato....most all the worldly famous scholars were in-fact Platonists....example Charles Spurgeon, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and a plithoria more...even the early church fathers like Iranaus were heavily into Platonism....
i
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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A closed heart which is desperate to justify itself will do this.
It takes years to see someone clearly, but here people can take whatever they want.

Clearly their hearts do not beat like ours. A good friend of mine sold out and went down this road,
so it is not hard to do, but bless you brother for your diligence and forgiveness, God bless.
Preacher posts Luke18: 9-

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are,extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.






 
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willybob

Guest
Regardless.....PAUL concluded 2 things based upon Abraham and was INSPIRED BY JESUS to write...

a. We conclude a man is justified by faith without works
b. Abraham believed God and it was put to his account for righteousness

and then goes on to quote DAVID in the following...

David described the blessedness of the man to who God imputes righteousness without the deeds of the law (works)

No matter HOW many times you push a working for, sinless perfectionist preservation/salvation it will not alleviate the simple truth of the three points above......
so says the man that argues in favor of sin at all cost
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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In addition; most of Christian Theology is derived from the mind of Plato....most all the worldly famous scholars were in-fact(sic) Platonists (sic)....(sic) example Charles Spurgeon, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and a plithoria(sic) more...even the early church fathers like Iranaus (sic) were heavily into Platonism....
i(sic)
...and yet absolutely nothing but slanderous accusations, and nothing in way of substantiation to those (your) lying claims. :D
 
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...and yet absolutely nothing but slanderous accusations, and nothing in way of substantiation to those (your) lying claims. :D
Better check your history here p4t...Early Christianity was in fact influenced heavily by Platoism....Of Christianity notable followers were in fact, St. Augustine, Aquinas, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and few others...

I think willy went a bit past the mandate here....but you can google christian platonists and find credible references and facts that the above church fathers were very heavily influenced by Platoism... I cannot find anything on Calvin, SPurgeon or others and that might be where willy went past the mandate....
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Better check your history here p4t...Early Christianity was in fact influenced heavily by Platoism....
Oh, I'm waiting to check "my history here" while waiting for you to document it, historically. Then I can really "check" history.

Documentation. Go get it. And then apply this to those who were accused by name with further documentation.

All we have thus far are accusations. Unsubstantiated accusations attached to names.

If you cannot provide this in documented detail, as well as those of others, said accusations will then be considered slander and false. Since you claim these to be true, you should have ready proof.

You've gone on to support this, now provide literal proof of these accusations.
 
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Are you afraid of John's words?
"16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." (1 John 4:16-18 NASB)


You should be. They're intended to move you to the completion of your faith--the working out of your faith into actual deeds, so that you can rest in the assurance that you are indeed at peace with God and will pass through the coming Judgment safely. Read the passage.

When you are like Him in this life, that is when you fear is cast out. Confessing Christ as savior, alone, without works, is not how you cast out fear of the Day of Judgment. That's called dead faith--the kind of faith demons have. The faith that can not save. James said so.

It's funny how so many people will affirm the truth that saving faith WILL produce works, but then they will get almost violent at the suggestion that you have to have those works on the Day of Judgment for that very reason--because that's what saving faith produces.

Phart...I am not afraid of anything in the word.....I love the truth, embrace the truth and have no issue with serving....you guys assume that because this thread is about salvation dia faith thru grace that we do nothing...the difference between you and I is I do not trust works as the nail in the equation to save me or keep me saved....which has been stated by numerous people rightfully in this thread......Saints are rewarded according to their works, the LOST are judged by the law according to their works....that is the difference...
 
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I really think you have must have misunderstood everything those what believe, salvation is secure and not by works, have written to make such a comment.
I would agree......John called them vipers, Jesus white washed tombs, dead men, blind and fools, Paul bewitched, deaf and foolish, Elijah mocked......

and if you defend the truth with a little heat they say what he said and accused of.......blind to the defense of the gospel by the men of the bible.....
 
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Hi UnderGrace, they don't see it because they continue the dance; my wonderful works plusGod's Grace; a little bit of me, a little bit of God, a little me, a little of God's Grace. Our words are a window into what motivates our actions; most of the Grace plus works people here are driven by pride. There was a lot of this works salvation going on in the late '60s and 70s it was called legalism.
Amen to that..........and I agree.....
 
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so says the man that argues in favor of sin at all cost
You know...all liars will have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone......and you know your lying through your teeth to say this......I have never argued in favor of sin....

POST PROOF where I argued IN FAVOR of SIN for ALL to SEE or be found FALSE....

How does that work out for your sinless perfectionist working for dogma....how does lying help you stay saved?
 
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Brother Dcon has never done this. All I see are unsubstantiated claims from you. You should get some proof to these claims -- I'll be waiting.
Thanks bro....he has misrepresented the truth numerous times and flat lied accusing many of us concerning this unfounded line of malarkey.....
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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This is offtopic...

some of these current threads are totally off the wall.

Threads to me are the individual topics started. I notice that others say forums.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Oh, I'm waiting to check "my history here" while waiting for you to document it, historically. Then I can really "check" history.

Documentation. Go get it. And then apply this to those who were accused by name with further documentation.

All we have thus far are accusations. Unsubstantiated accusations attached to names.

If you cannot provide this in documented detail, as well as those of others, said accusations will then be considered slander and false. Since you claim these to be true, you should have ready proof.

You've gone on to support this, now provide literal proof of these accusations.
Original Poster:
"Better check your history here p4t...Early Christianity was in fact influenced heavily by Platoism...."


Hi Preacher, the only documentation I could find of the influence of Plato on Christianity were from the non-believing critics of Christianity; smarter people than I could likely find some thin connections between our Church Fathers and Plato but the purpose of these unmerited claims is to discredit Christianity. What do you think the Apostle Paul would say to the people on this forum/thread who would diminish Christ work on the Cross and make heretical claims that our faith is some how connected to Plato - foolish and harmful mistake; ye' men of

Sermon on Mars Hill
Acts 17:22-31

"So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; [SUP]25 [/SUP]nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; [SUP]26 [/SUP]and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, [SUP]27 [/SUP]that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; [SUP]28 [/SUP]for in Him we live and move and [SUP][b][/SUP]exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.
Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, [SUP]31[/SUP]because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

 
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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Oh, I'm waiting to check "my history here" while waiting for you to document it, historically. Then I can really "check" history.

Documentation. Go get it. And then apply this to those who were accused by name with further documentation.

All we have thus far are accusations. Unsubstantiated accusations attached to names.

If you cannot provide this in documented detail, as well as those of others, said accusations will then be considered slander and false. Since you claim these to be true, you should have ready proof.

You've gone on to support this, now provide literal proof of these accusations.
Original Poster:
"Better check your history here p4t...Early Christianity was in fact influenced heavily by Platoism...."

Fake News:

A local reporter saw and over heard; John, Paul and James of the New Testament writers, discussing Christian doctrines and theology with Plato late last month; over a cappuccino no less; Of course there wasn't too much of a concern about this innocent meeting because their conversation was only platonic.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Amen...they say they don't push a working for dogma and then they turn around and push a working for dogma......

The only PURE MOTIVE for our works is sincerely and ONLY as a way to show our LOVE for HIM, or it is nothing but a pile of filthy rags.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
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Original Poster:
"Better check your history here p4t...Early Christianity was in fact influenced heavily by Platoism...."

Fake News:

A local reporter saw and over heard; John, Paul and James of the New Testament writers, discussing Christian doctrines and theology with Plato late last month; over a cappuccino no less; Of course there wasn't too much of a concern about this innocent meeting because their conversation was only platonic.

And why is that FAKE NEWS?

Plato died in in 348 or 347 BC.