Not By Works
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If it can be lost. It is not eternal. Get over it man, Eternal means forever. Never ending. If you have it, IT WILL NOT END> PERIOD.. Otherwise, GOD LIED>
Eternal means forever. It does not mean anything else. YOU CAN NOT LOSE ETERNAL LIFE> if you can, IT IS CONDITIONAL LIFE>
You want to preach conditional life. Feel free. But do not mock God and call it eternal life. It is not some religious thing that does not mean what it says, it is a real thing. It is being given life, and that life being eternal.
YOU HAVE IT the moment you believe, IT CAN NOT BE LOST under anY CIRCUMSTANCE, other wise it is not eternal. Period.
Eternal means forever. It does not mean anything else. YOU CAN NOT LOSE ETERNAL LIFE> if you can, IT IS CONDITIONAL LIFE>
You want to preach conditional life. Feel free. But do not mock God and call it eternal life. It is not some religious thing that does not mean what it says, it is a real thing. It is being given life, and that life being eternal.
YOU HAVE IT the moment you believe, IT CAN NOT BE LOST under anY CIRCUMSTANCE, other wise it is not eternal. Period.
Humanizing God
It is easy to say, but when you do not listen to Him, put mans words in His mouth,
that is what one is doing. You need to source each idea and fit it into the whole.
In the end when your heart is clean, you will see and sing and know.
This is not some intellectual exercise, it is becoming one with Christ, in thought , word
and deed.
Those far off will grasp at straws, try and squeeze meaning out of verses. Those in the
Holy Spirit will just pour out praise.David took delight in Gods order and structure.
It is His heart, to love with boundaries, to know victory, to make a whole.
To love as Christ loved us, is not an impossible dream, it is a quest worthy of the Kingdom.
It is easy to say, but when you do not listen to Him, put mans words in His mouth,
that is what one is doing. You need to source each idea and fit it into the whole.
In the end when your heart is clean, you will see and sing and know.
This is not some intellectual exercise, it is becoming one with Christ, in thought , word
and deed.
Those far off will grasp at straws, try and squeeze meaning out of verses. Those in the
Holy Spirit will just pour out praise.David took delight in Gods order and structure.
It is His heart, to love with boundaries, to know victory, to make a whole.
To love as Christ loved us, is not an impossible dream, it is a quest worthy of the Kingdom.
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one must remember, the Corinthian church was in all kinds of sexual sin, they were called babes in christ, still needing milk. He said those people would not inherit the kingdom, Anmd such were some of them,
what was the difference? Did they stop sinning? No,
'the difference is what God did, they were washed, sanctified and justified.
Now what do we do? Live your life by who you are, not who you were.
These people still lived in those sins, but that was not who they were. That was Pauls point.
All sin leads to death. Are we going to judge a person who does this sin when we all have our own sins. What makers them less worthy than you, or you more worthy than them?
I think we take a slippery slope when we try to judge people for sin, even our brothers and sisters. Remove the log from our eyes first the Bible says.
what was the difference? Did they stop sinning? No,
'the difference is what God did, they were washed, sanctified and justified.
Now what do we do? Live your life by who you are, not who you were.
These people still lived in those sins, but that was not who they were. That was Pauls point.
All sin leads to death. Are we going to judge a person who does this sin when we all have our own sins. What makers them less worthy than you, or you more worthy than them?
I think we take a slippery slope when we try to judge people for sin, even our brothers and sisters. Remove the log from our eyes first the Bible says.
This is all so limited and blinkered. A rock can be thousands of years old,
I can hold it and describe it as part of stars and to stars it will return.
My holding it does not mean I possess it forever, just now. I might possess it
forever if I live that long, only the future knows.
So we have life in Christ, the life that is eternal. For me it is only eternal
if I do not die in the second death and stay believing. What I do does not
change eternal life, just my partaking of it, simple.
You have nothing to apologize for, we understood that banned False Accuser was the one lying, his ATTITUDE
was the dead giveaway. But while we are on the subject, that DD214 gets you VA I.D. cards, that comes with lots of benefits. It gets VA medical benifits and eyecare with a small share of cost, only a $9 share of cost per Med no matter what it is, free burial at a VA Cemetary, and I placed my wife's ashes in Veteran's Wall, near where we used to live, and that only cost $400 even though she was not a Vet, and the Stone was Free and has my name and rank, and her name on it. So when the Lord calls me home, my ashes will be in the box with hers. And that V.A. Cemetary is beautifully maintained, even though it is out in the High Desert. Other benifits from the DD214, include: V.A. Loans, 10% off all purchases at HOME DEPOT, 10% off all purchases at the store and online at LOWES. And there are other benifits too. The draft dodger's had no idea how much moving to Canada was going to cost them.
was the dead giveaway. But while we are on the subject, that DD214 gets you VA I.D. cards, that comes with lots of benefits. It gets VA medical benifits and eyecare with a small share of cost, only a $9 share of cost per Med no matter what it is, free burial at a VA Cemetary, and I placed my wife's ashes in Veteran's Wall, near where we used to live, and that only cost $400 even though she was not a Vet, and the Stone was Free and has my name and rank, and her name on it. So when the Lord calls me home, my ashes will be in the box with hers. And that V.A. Cemetary is beautifully maintained, even though it is out in the High Desert. Other benifits from the DD214, include: V.A. Loans, 10% off all purchases at HOME DEPOT, 10% off all purchases at the store and online at LOWES. And there are other benifits too. The draft dodger's had no idea how much moving to Canada was going to cost them.
Thanks VCO, and for your service. I have a generous monthly benefit from the VA until I pass and my wife will continue to receive half of that benefit, (survivor's benefit), plus Soc. Sec., always want her to be financially secure. Oh and I have my Lowe's 10 percent military discount did know about home depot or eye glasses.....
I just love Canada and the people and the beautiful landscape. My best friend from Church moved here from New Brunswick, Canada Years ago, he and his wife want to return for retirement. thanks for the encouraging words, and love your family story as well.
I just love Canada and the people and the beautiful landscape. My best friend from Church moved here from New Brunswick, Canada Years ago, he and his wife want to return for retirement. thanks for the encouraging words, and love your family story as well.
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When I this, I read the unrighteous will not get in
But we are all unrighteous before we are born again
Some of them were unrighteous (unsaved) but now they have become righteous (saved) justified in the name of the Lord
Paul is telling them not to behave as though they were unrighteous but who they really are in Christ
Again this not about eternal assurance it is about living in our new nature
If you continue you reading Paul tells them these sins are against their own bodies and He exhorts them to see their body as the temple of the Holy Spirit
We know so much and take it for granted sometimes, but just think of these 1st century believers learning about this new way in Christ and how much they had to learn
But we are all unrighteous before we are born again
Some of them were unrighteous (unsaved) but now they have become righteous (saved) justified in the name of the Lord
Paul is telling them not to behave as though they were unrighteous but who they really are in Christ
Again this not about eternal assurance it is about living in our new nature
If you continue you reading Paul tells them these sins are against their own bodies and He exhorts them to see their body as the temple of the Holy Spirit
We know so much and take it for granted sometimes, but just think of these 1st century believers learning about this new way in Christ and how much they had to learn
Hi BenFTW, think about this, in Jesus' day's there were hanger on's just for the benefit's and he told them so. Would not you think that these so called followers would maintain the same life style as you quoted from the scriptures. They are there for the "benefit's" of being around Christian's, and this happen all to much in the Church today.
Our Pastor, bless his heart told the congregation that he had to turn away a non Church goer, that came into his office and demanded money because thats what the Church does. The Pastor told the man we also look for work and a stable place for people to live so they can learn how to stand on their own, we don't just hand out free money to everyone who walks into our Church doors without good reason.
Well the Pastor said, the guy was not willing to listen to anything he said, so the man said well I'm gonna post bad things about you all over town on my face book page and you'll be sorry.
Forget the money, do you think this guy was anything like the people Paul talked about in 1corinthians6:9-11. This rude individual was looking to inherit a bag full of money for free, not the Kingdom of God. Paul was speaking to believers about the unrighteous unbelievers who will not inherit the Kingdom, not about you and me.
Our Pastor, bless his heart told the congregation that he had to turn away a non Church goer, that came into his office and demanded money because thats what the Church does. The Pastor told the man we also look for work and a stable place for people to live so they can learn how to stand on their own, we don't just hand out free money to everyone who walks into our Church doors without good reason.
Well the Pastor said, the guy was not willing to listen to anything he said, so the man said well I'm gonna post bad things about you all over town on my face book page and you'll be sorry.
Forget the money, do you think this guy was anything like the people Paul talked about in 1corinthians6:9-11. This rude individual was looking to inherit a bag full of money for free, not the Kingdom of God. Paul was speaking to believers about the unrighteous unbelievers who will not inherit the Kingdom, not about you and me.
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Hi again Ben, I never heard the acronym OSAS at Church or talking to people outside this forum. Once Saved Always Saved is a phrase used by its counter part that say's, "you can lose your salvation", and these folks alway's insist that you must "work" to stay saved." It is a debate that has been going on since the first century Church and will not go away until Christ's return. Grab an easy chair and some popcorn and engage in the talk like you are now, good questions, maybe not the answer you wanted to hear.....
Hi again Ben, I never heard the acronym OSAS at Church or talking to people outside this forum. Once Saved Always Saved is a phrase used by its counter part that say's, "you can lose your salvation", and these folks alway's insist that you must "work" to stay saved." It is a debate that has been going on since the first century Church and will not go away until Christ's return. Grab an easy chair and some popcorn and engage in the talk like you are now, good questions, maybe not the answer you wanted to hear.....
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The sanctified person (vs.11 in your quote above--underline by me) who does these things in a willful return to the world will not inherit the kingdom of God. He is trampling the blood of Christ by which he was sanctified. The sacrifice of Christ does not remain for this person who does this, and so all he has to look forward to is suffering the wrath of God along with the enemies of God at Christ's return. He doesn't have Christ's sacrifice remaining to rescue him from the coming wrath:
Let's put all the pieces together:
Here's the passage you brought up:
Here's where the author of Hebrews explains what happens to sanctified people who go back to the world in an unbelieving, willful sinning:
The sanctified, saved person who willfully goes back to his old life in a contemptuous rejection of the blood that sanctified him will suffer the wrath of God and be destroyed at the Judgment, not saved.
Let's put all the pieces together:
Here's the passage you brought up:
"Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified..." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB)
Here's where the author of Hebrews explains what happens to sanctified people who go back to the world in an unbelieving, willful sinning:
"10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:10,26-30 NASB)
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:10,26-30 NASB)
The sanctified, saved person who willfully goes back to his old life in a contemptuous rejection of the blood that sanctified him will suffer the wrath of God and be destroyed at the Judgment, not saved.
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Paul was clear, and this text is typically shunned. Those whom Paul mentioned, who practice these things will not enter heaven, it is not their inheritance. He is saying this in reference to them going to court with one another in the sight of the lost world:
"...for it is not agreeable to the holy nature of God, to his infinite justice and righteous law, to admit any into heaven without a righteousness: hence a judgment seat is erected, before which all must stand; and those that will be found without a righteousness, will be for ever excluded the kingdom of heaven; and could any unrighteous persons be received there, it would spoil the pleasure and happiness of the saints. Now this is said, partly to dissuade the Corinthians from going to law with each other before unrighteous persons, who have no right to the kingdom of God, and living and dying as they are, will have no share in it; and therefore since they are not to be fellow heirs and companions with them in another world, they should not bring their causes before them in this; and partly to reprove them for their injurious and unrighteous actions among themselves, their tricking and defrauding of one another, with other sins they were guilty of; which, if not repented of, would show, that notwithstanding their profession, they were destitute of the grace of God, were unfit to be in the kingdom of God, in a Gospel church state here below, and would be shut out of the kingdom of heaven hereafter." - John Gill
The fact is those who practice these things are unconverted and Paul is warning the church about this as we never assume all are true converts, hence "Be not deceived" as some then and some today were and are.
He makes mention that they were this way, showing their conversion and sanctification. Yet again, he prefaces this with "Be not deceived". Many in the church today are deceived with a notion that they can continue on in sin, there need be no evidence of conversion, and would still inherit the kingdom of heaven because heaven had been guaranteed them for mental assent to facts or for a prayer. Yet these would be miserable there among the righteous as they have been never made such.
Our evangelistic efforts are therefore not to be naive to the extent the church is not seen as a mission field. Note Ephesians 5:5 and Galatians 5:19ff as well written as warnings to the recipients.
"...for it is not agreeable to the holy nature of God, to his infinite justice and righteous law, to admit any into heaven without a righteousness: hence a judgment seat is erected, before which all must stand; and those that will be found without a righteousness, will be for ever excluded the kingdom of heaven; and could any unrighteous persons be received there, it would spoil the pleasure and happiness of the saints. Now this is said, partly to dissuade the Corinthians from going to law with each other before unrighteous persons, who have no right to the kingdom of God, and living and dying as they are, will have no share in it; and therefore since they are not to be fellow heirs and companions with them in another world, they should not bring their causes before them in this; and partly to reprove them for their injurious and unrighteous actions among themselves, their tricking and defrauding of one another, with other sins they were guilty of; which, if not repented of, would show, that notwithstanding their profession, they were destitute of the grace of God, were unfit to be in the kingdom of God, in a Gospel church state here below, and would be shut out of the kingdom of heaven hereafter." - John Gill
The fact is those who practice these things are unconverted and Paul is warning the church about this as we never assume all are true converts, hence "Be not deceived" as some then and some today were and are.
He makes mention that they were this way, showing their conversion and sanctification. Yet again, he prefaces this with "Be not deceived". Many in the church today are deceived with a notion that they can continue on in sin, there need be no evidence of conversion, and would still inherit the kingdom of heaven because heaven had been guaranteed them for mental assent to facts or for a prayer. Yet these would be miserable there among the righteous as they have been never made such.
Our evangelistic efforts are therefore not to be naive to the extent the church is not seen as a mission field. Note Ephesians 5:5 and Galatians 5:19ff as well written as warnings to the recipients.
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I suppose you could say that genuine faith works. lol
"6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love (that's what justifies)." (Galatians 5:6 NASB)
If a person is not growing up into a life of obedience to God they either 1) were never justified to begin with, or 2) lost the power of Jesus' blood for justification through a contemptuous, unbelieving return to their old life.
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There is absolutely and exactly nothing in the text that speaks of, implies, suggests or talks about a Christian returning to the world and living in these sins and losing salvation. Your take is ridiculous and isn't hermeneutically nor is it exegetically sound.
Your absolute bias and wanting for someone, anyone to lose their salvation and force it into the text is absurd and obsessive.
Take off your "lose salvation/stop believing" goggles. They are helping you twist Scripture and see things that are not there.
Your absolute bias and wanting for someone, anyone to lose their salvation and force it into the text is absurd and obsessive.
Take off your "lose salvation/stop believing" goggles. They are helping you twist Scripture and see things that are not there.
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I suppose you could say that genuine faith works. lol
Our works are not involved with keeping us saved only to show our Heavenly Father that we love Him. Are there works in the Christian life yes, do they save you no. The argument is about can you lose your salvation, and its been talked about since the first century Church. One pastor I heard tell his congregation, if you legalist want to work your way to heaven be my guest.
You will have to decide which camp you are in; genuine faith produces works, but works don't save you. Or put another way, we are saved "unto good works", not by them. You decide.
God bless
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You are a strange guy.
You neither understand my position or respond properly.
You cannot even be dismissive with any real force.
Repeating your statements does not make the true, because you fail to recognise
the difference between what is written and what you write.
You want to be a condemer and a Universalist is your choice. My words have no power
unless I reflect Gods perspective. It may be new to you, but your regard of me changes nothing.
Gods reality is all that matters, and by His grace we can reflect it.
It is sad that you have so little fruit, that seeing any truth in my sharing is so hard for you.
You have great perseverance, to repeat the same ideas, day after day with the same words,
Lol. Are you a human or an AI. I think you have failed the Turing test
You neither understand my position or respond properly.
You cannot even be dismissive with any real force.
Repeating your statements does not make the true, because you fail to recognise
the difference between what is written and what you write.
You want to be a condemer and a Universalist is your choice. My words have no power
unless I reflect Gods perspective. It may be new to you, but your regard of me changes nothing.
Gods reality is all that matters, and by His grace we can reflect it.
It is sad that you have so little fruit, that seeing any truth in my sharing is so hard for you.
You have great perseverance, to repeat the same ideas, day after day with the same words,
Lol. Are you a human or an AI. I think you have failed the Turing test
Are you sure you don't mean, we are a strange people, maybe here is why?
[video=youtube;OvN1jTkzXbY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=40&v=OvN1jTkzXbY[/video]
We have a LONG History of being a BIBLE BLIEVING NATION and we can see it Saving and Changing people from the inside out, even Sylvester Stallone. Like Ronald Reagan once said, "The question is, are we as a Nation, still on GOD's side?"
Hi Phart, I was beginning to have faith in you and now you are twisting the scriptures again. 1) Yes a believer will learn obedience just like Jesus did. (And who put the parentheses, in your blue verse hard to distinguish really). The faith that manifest in love to God is just that, we are showing God our love by being obedient sons as Jesus did, but hey! That obedience is not going to keep you saved, it cannot, only God can, aside from your wonderful works.
God grief, Noah obeyed God and built an Ark, but it was God who brought the Ark to dry ground not Noah's obedience, thats just silly non-sense. Faith to Faith God saves, not Faith plus obedience saves. Your still trying to work into the gospel of PHart that you can lose your salvation. Your a nice guy but go back and rethink God's plan of redemption. Like this thread say's,
"Not By Works"
"During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest
in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews5:7-10
God grief, Noah obeyed God and built an Ark, but it was God who brought the Ark to dry ground not Noah's obedience, thats just silly non-sense. Faith to Faith God saves, not Faith plus obedience saves. Your still trying to work into the gospel of PHart that you can lose your salvation. Your a nice guy but go back and rethink God's plan of redemption. Like this thread say's,
"Not By Works"
"During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest
in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews5:7-10
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