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Jesus never sinned. The soul that sinneth it shall surely die. No sin no death. Only when Jesus bowed His head did He command His Spirit to leave His body. Sin and death did not overcome Jesus on the cross. Jesus overcame sin and death for us.
Jesus was forsaken of God for our sins. Forsaken only for an instant in eternity but forsaken so that we will never be forsaken.
Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus was forsaken of God for our sins. Forsaken only for an instant in eternity but forsaken so that we will never be forsaken.
Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is one of the most mis-used scriptures by the faith only folks...
Read this whole statement, in context...
John is not giving an instruction on "how to be saved" here. He is pointing out that belief is imperative for salvation. How can you be saved, if you don't believe?
He's pointing out the importance of belief. He does NOT say, "all you have to do is believe".... he says, "if you want to be saved, you have to be a believer... if you are not a believer, you cannot be saved".
again, this is NOT a detailed instruction on how to be saved.
The reason he doesn't mention any other parts of salvation is because this passage is talking about how Jesus came and died for us, and that it takes belief in him to gain salvation. Refusal, or lack of belief, will disqualify you.... (sort of a "well, DUH" moment)
This was not a discussion of hearing the gospel, which leads to belief... or confessing your faith and acceptance of Jesus... it is a discussion of belief...
Read this whole statement, in context...
John is not giving an instruction on "how to be saved" here. He is pointing out that belief is imperative for salvation. How can you be saved, if you don't believe?
He's pointing out the importance of belief. He does NOT say, "all you have to do is believe".... he says, "if you want to be saved, you have to be a believer... if you are not a believer, you cannot be saved".
again, this is NOT a detailed instruction on how to be saved.
The reason he doesn't mention any other parts of salvation is because this passage is talking about how Jesus came and died for us, and that it takes belief in him to gain salvation. Refusal, or lack of belief, will disqualify you.... (sort of a "well, DUH" moment)
This was not a discussion of hearing the gospel, which leads to belief... or confessing your faith and acceptance of Jesus... it is a discussion of belief...
Not fighting the bible but fighting religion and tradition that is in error.
Christ breaths into the believer the Holy Spirit the moment the sinner cries out to Him for forgiveness. Just as God breathed into man and he became a living soul so Christ breathes the Holy Spirit into souls who are dead in sin and gives them new life eternal.
Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism that saves. Water baptism is only a figure a symbol not causation of salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Christ breaths into the believer the Holy Spirit the moment the sinner cries out to Him for forgiveness. Just as God breathed into man and he became a living soul so Christ breathes the Holy Spirit into souls who are dead in sin and gives them new life eternal.
Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism that saves. Water baptism is only a figure a symbol not causation of salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
that's sad that you ran into someone that was misguided like that. Not ALL CofC folks are that way.. I believe the majority are not.
I've run into some Baptists that have some odd beliefs, also. I don't automatically dismiss all Baptists as kooks, or fanatics. We should take people at face value... what fruits of the Spirit do they show?
Labels are borderline worthless...
I've run into some Baptists that have some odd beliefs, also. I don't automatically dismiss all Baptists as kooks, or fanatics. We should take people at face value... what fruits of the Spirit do they show?
Labels are borderline worthless...
Salvation is all about grace. Use care when you change that to faith and then insert your faith. The faith through which we receive Gods grace to be saved is faith that God gives through the hearing of His word. The faith of man is far too changeable to be trusted for salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
James brings harmony with Paul .Scripture does not oppose itself.
The faith /work by which we can believe him who has no form is "the faith of Christ" coming from the work of Christ's three day labor of Love.
If we would have His faith in respect to our own selves or another seen we would be blaspheming the holy name by which we are called heaven ward .
One of the difficulties I have experienced is men do not want to contribute faith to God, as the work of God, that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure . They say God does not need faith (a plan ) needed to bring his work as that seen. (things just happen when they hit the wind of false doctrine called evolution )
Offering dead works as a faith coming from the imagination of our own hearts towards God does violates the warning according to the commandment, as a perfect law not subject to change by an oral tradition of men.(not just a good subsection) the law is....Do not have the faith of Christ coming from God in respect to that seen in the mirror.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of (belonging to)our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of (belonging to)glory, with respect of persons.(belonging to)
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Peter did as an example of a Antichrist (Satan the father of lies) who influences men the antichrists (men)? He was forgiven seeing blasphemy coming from Peters lips was in respect to the Son of man as that seen ,and not the Holy Spirit, not seen.. The form of blasphemy will not be forgiven.
We must learn how to distinguish the eternal things of God, not seen ,the law of faith, from the temporal things of men seen.
Its there where the father of lies deceives natural man like Peter..
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mat 16:22
Peter should of heeded the commandment as a warning found in James 2:1. God did not sent him a strong delusion to believe the lie of Satan. But by grace as a work of Christ faith called him back to repentance over and over every time Peter did have Christ's faith in respect to his own self. He had a reputation as a denier in that way.Just as Christ had a reputation for not denying Hims self ..if he has paid the wage according to His great mercy and grace.
The faith /work by which we can believe him who has no form is "the faith of Christ" coming from the work of Christ's three day labor of Love.
If we would have His faith in respect to our own selves or another seen we would be blaspheming the holy name by which we are called heaven ward .
One of the difficulties I have experienced is men do not want to contribute faith to God, as the work of God, that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure . They say God does not need faith (a plan ) needed to bring his work as that seen. (things just happen when they hit the wind of false doctrine called evolution )
Offering dead works as a faith coming from the imagination of our own hearts towards God does violates the warning according to the commandment, as a perfect law not subject to change by an oral tradition of men.(not just a good subsection) the law is....Do not have the faith of Christ coming from God in respect to that seen in the mirror.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of (belonging to)our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of (belonging to)glory, with respect of persons.(belonging to)
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Peter did as an example of a Antichrist (Satan the father of lies) who influences men the antichrists (men)? He was forgiven seeing blasphemy coming from Peters lips was in respect to the Son of man as that seen ,and not the Holy Spirit, not seen.. The form of blasphemy will not be forgiven.
We must learn how to distinguish the eternal things of God, not seen ,the law of faith, from the temporal things of men seen.
Its there where the father of lies deceives natural man like Peter..
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mat 16:22
Peter should of heeded the commandment as a warning found in James 2:1. God did not sent him a strong delusion to believe the lie of Satan. But by grace as a work of Christ faith called him back to repentance over and over every time Peter did have Christ's faith in respect to his own self. He had a reputation as a denier in that way.Just as Christ had a reputation for not denying Hims self ..if he has paid the wage according to His great mercy and grace.
You have an esoteric hang-up. Is that your new word for the month?
The Eternal cannot die or He would not be Eternal. When Jesus willed His Spirit to leave His earthly body it died but Jesus did not die. Sin did not cause Him to die but by His sovereign will He left His earthly body. You will not be in control of your death because sin has dominion over your body.
No amount of water baptisms will change the fact that sin has dominion over your earthly body.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The Eternal cannot die or He would not be Eternal. When Jesus willed His Spirit to leave His earthly body it died but Jesus did not die. Sin did not cause Him to die but by His sovereign will He left His earthly body. You will not be in control of your death because sin has dominion over your body.
No amount of water baptisms will change the fact that sin has dominion over your earthly body.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
No! I am not fighting against the Bible, I am for the Bible. As per the Bible, only the saved must be baptized. I think this is what I meant in my previous post on “believers baptism”. What I am really talking are the saved. When I said those “believers” are those saved, those “whosoever believeth on him”. Those who are sealed by the Holy Ghost, keep by the power of God by faith on Christ and Him alone. These are those who were washed /cleansed by the blood of Christ. Acts 20:28
Now baptism, is it not a must for the saved? Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments” John 14 and one of the commandment of Christ in the Bible is Matthew 28:19-20 which converts (believers, saved) needed to be baptized even immediately. The Historical Acts accounts would have testified to these. Really it is a “must” for the saved because this shows your obedience to Christ and his word. This is not a must necessity in order to be saved!
I just suspect that even Alexander Campbell had to seek his baptism from a Baptist preacher believing Baptist baptism yet I doubt his sincerity of this man since he defected from the Baptist faith, showing like what Apostle John says “he is not one of us” 1 John
Per dictionary is concerned, well I have nothing against it. It seems the way you interpret it is in error as been shown in the light of scriptures.
Now baptism, is it not a must for the saved? Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments” John 14 and one of the commandment of Christ in the Bible is Matthew 28:19-20 which converts (believers, saved) needed to be baptized even immediately. The Historical Acts accounts would have testified to these. Really it is a “must” for the saved because this shows your obedience to Christ and his word. This is not a must necessity in order to be saved!
I just suspect that even Alexander Campbell had to seek his baptism from a Baptist preacher believing Baptist baptism yet I doubt his sincerity of this man since he defected from the Baptist faith, showing like what Apostle John says “he is not one of us” 1 John
Per dictionary is concerned, well I have nothing against it. It seems the way you interpret it is in error as been shown in the light of scriptures.
This path has been trodden so many times and I would defer taking the shot this time, we have so many threads that this proof text has no contradiction at all with what Paul and the entirety of the New Testament salvation. Just go over what Sir Dan exposition.
What my point that you missed, however, was about receiving Christ or accepting Christ and what the scripture says it’s on believing. I guessed you have not done any counter point.
It is you I think that is fighting against the Bible and the Dictionary.
Accept means in number 3 B2 is to believe which the Bible has already define many centuries before OxFord or Camridge did.
acceptverb
UK /əkˈsept/ US /əkˈsept/
accept verb (TAKE)
B1 [ T ] to agree to take something:
Do you accept credit cards?
She was in Mumbai to accept an award for her latest novel.
I offered her an apology, but she wouldn't accept it.
I accept full responsibility for the failure of the plan.
The new coffee machines will accept coins of any denomination.
B1 [ I or T ] to say yes to an offer or invitation:
We've offered her the job, but I don't know whether she'll accept it.
I've just accepted an invitation to the opening-night party.
I've been invited to their wedding but I haven't decided whether to accept.
More examples
· After a lot of careful thought, she decided to accept their offer.
· She is too proud to accept any help.
· Do you think the seller will accept £196, 000 for the house?
· I don't usually accept lifts from strange men.
· A lot of shops won't accept cheques unless you have a cheque card with you.
Thesaurus: synonyms and related words
accept verb (APPROVE)
B2 [ T ] to consider something or someone as satisfactory:
The manuscript was accepted for publication last week.
She was accepted as a full member of the society.
His fellow workers refused to accept him (= to include him as one of their group).
More examples
Thesaurus: synonyms and related words
accept verb (BELIEVE)
B2 [ T ] to believe that something is true:
The police refused to accept her version of the story.
He still hasn't accepted the situation (= realized that he cannot change it).
[ + that ] I can't accept that there's nothing we can do.
More examples
accept Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
What my point that you missed, however, was about receiving Christ or accepting Christ and what the scripture says it’s on believing. I guessed you have not done any counter point.
It is you I think that is fighting against the Bible and the Dictionary.
Accept means in number 3 B2 is to believe which the Bible has already define many centuries before OxFord or Camridge did.
acceptverb
UK /əkˈsept/ US /əkˈsept/
accept verb (TAKE)
B1 [ T ] to agree to take something:
Do you accept credit cards?
She was in Mumbai to accept an award for her latest novel.
I offered her an apology, but she wouldn't accept it.
I accept full responsibility for the failure of the plan.
The new coffee machines will accept coins of any denomination.
B1 [ I or T ] to say yes to an offer or invitation:
We've offered her the job, but I don't know whether she'll accept it.
I've just accepted an invitation to the opening-night party.
I've been invited to their wedding but I haven't decided whether to accept.
More examples
· After a lot of careful thought, she decided to accept their offer.
· She is too proud to accept any help.
· Do you think the seller will accept £196, 000 for the house?
· I don't usually accept lifts from strange men.
· A lot of shops won't accept cheques unless you have a cheque card with you.
Thesaurus: synonyms and related words
accept verb (APPROVE)
B2 [ T ] to consider something or someone as satisfactory:
The manuscript was accepted for publication last week.
She was accepted as a full member of the society.
His fellow workers refused to accept him (= to include him as one of their group).
More examples
Thesaurus: synonyms and related words
accept verb (BELIEVE)
B2 [ T ] to believe that something is true:
The police refused to accept her version of the story.
He still hasn't accepted the situation (= realized that he cannot change it).
[ + that ] I can't accept that there's nothing we can do.
More examples
accept Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
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Why must the saved by baptized?
This is in obedience to Christ command, as a proof of love and identification to Christ.
If they don't get baptized are they still saved?
This question needs assumptions, because who are these “they”?
1. “They” which may refer to unbelievers/unsaved getting baptized, like the RC, Mormon and all those faith +works/ faith +baptism= salvation, dipped or be damned, then NO they were not saved.
2. “They” which may refer to those who received Christ by believing then, they were saved for eternity even though they were not baptized. Salvation is wholly by grace through faith. Mark 16:16 Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5.
If so, why must they get baptized?
1. To the unsaved/faith +baptism = salvation
2. To the saved = growth, obedience, love to Christ.
What is the point of bringing up Alexander Campbell?
Oops, I am very sorry for this one but I bring this out because he first believed in the Baptist Baptism yet later believed in the baptismal regeneration. Anyway, the man is dead and off the topic but left a fortune of “faith + baptism = salvation.”
This is in obedience to Christ command, as a proof of love and identification to Christ.
If they don't get baptized are they still saved?
This question needs assumptions, because who are these “they”?
1. “They” which may refer to unbelievers/unsaved getting baptized, like the RC, Mormon and all those faith +works/ faith +baptism= salvation, dipped or be damned, then NO they were not saved.
2. “They” which may refer to those who received Christ by believing then, they were saved for eternity even though they were not baptized. Salvation is wholly by grace through faith. Mark 16:16 Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5.
If so, why must they get baptized?
1. To the unsaved/faith +baptism = salvation
2. To the saved = growth, obedience, love to Christ.
What is the point of bringing up Alexander Campbell?
Oops, I am very sorry for this one but I bring this out because he first believed in the Baptist Baptism yet later believed in the baptismal regeneration. Anyway, the man is dead and off the topic but left a fortune of “faith + baptism = salvation.”
I think many problem stem from not reconciling faith is a work or a labor of love. Remove the concept of work faith loses its meaning
Faith works in two direction in order to make it complete.
We are saved by Christ's work of faith according to His three day labor of love as a faith of coming from God In Philippians we are informed the faith of God works in us (towards us) to both will (give direction) and do (finish)according to His good pleasure. If we do the will of God which comes from hearing God we have received an imputed rigorousness . Our food is to do his will .No food no performing of His will. We do not get extra for doing His will and it makes our sin disappear.
To as many, not every person who have (past tense) received Him that many he gave the authority to believe ,not of our own selves as the kind of faith that comes from the imaginations of ones own heart.. They were born not of the will (the faith of men) But were born by the will or work of faith as a work of God to them that believe by His authority .
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.Joh 1:12
Faith works in two direction in order to make it complete.
We are saved by Christ's work of faith according to His three day labor of love as a faith of coming from God In Philippians we are informed the faith of God works in us (towards us) to both will (give direction) and do (finish)according to His good pleasure. If we do the will of God which comes from hearing God we have received an imputed rigorousness . Our food is to do his will .No food no performing of His will. We do not get extra for doing His will and it makes our sin disappear.
To as many, not every person who have (past tense) received Him that many he gave the authority to believe ,not of our own selves as the kind of faith that comes from the imaginations of ones own heart.. They were born not of the will (the faith of men) But were born by the will or work of faith as a work of God to them that believe by His authority .
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.Joh 1:12
Sorry...but I think you are out where the buses don't run on this assertion. Jesus was fully God, and fully man, and as such, his physical body would NOT have lived forever.
The idea that death did not defeat him is referring to the fact that he was resurrected. He was dead, but then was resurrected through the Spirit... death lost.
The idea that death did not defeat him is referring to the fact that he was resurrected. He was dead, but then was resurrected through the Spirit... death lost.
Well you will need to consider how long Adam may have lived before he sinned. In the garden before the fall there was no death. There was no sin so there was no death. Death passed upon all creation when sin entered through Adams transgression.
The only way Jesus could die was by the determinate will of God. Sin could have no effect upon Him because Jesus never sinned.
The spirit never dies even in sinful men. The spirit lives in eternal condemnation in the unregenerate man. The very nature of God is Eternal. Gods habitation is eternity, eternity past and eternity future.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The only way Jesus could die was by the determinate will of God. Sin could have no effect upon Him because Jesus never sinned.
The spirit never dies even in sinful men. The spirit lives in eternal condemnation in the unregenerate man. The very nature of God is Eternal. Gods habitation is eternity, eternity past and eternity future.
For the cause of Christ
Roger