PERFECT IN GOD'S EYES

[7seasrekeyed]

Also, I don't defend the name callers to people who are upset with them.

I seem to have gained considerable respect on the forum; and I was willing to put that on the line to defend you.

I could not do that without acknowledging that their irritation was somewhat justified.

well, okay...I see what you are saying.

you would not know me in person, because I am uber polite with a big smile of patience. had a lot of practice

I consider this forum a different field though. it's not my ministry and I am not even sure I am trying to convince anyone of anything.

in particular, the you are a banned person fiasco is telling. why didn't I get an apology? wait...I actually was not looking for one

did you know that rumor actually got started in another thread by someone I won't mention? and I was plain from the start I was not a banned person. these folks who do that sort of thing, just slide off into another thread ...are they embarrassed or angry they were not right? this is done to UNDERMINE what I was saying and it has been done to others. that, my friend, is a coward's exit. did you know I have apologized when I am wrong...yes I have. I'm not waiting for apologies at all. I figure bits and pieces of who we really are, show up in how we post and over the long haul, the character becomes plain enough.

I don't consider I am teaching here...unlike so many. I just like to have a say.


the 2 who liked your post to me, are 2 I do not agree with. those who do agree with me did not like your post and that is the nature of this forum

thank you for what you said, but now kindly stop. you have pm'ed me and posted in public. I am sure I got your message.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Cracking up laughing!!! I can just here them also.

Loved your post.......thanks for sharing your heart, your life! So sweet - Hugs!

SaveSave​

I have a God blessed life. So so so many things I could give praise to God for but I don't have to prove anything.

I 'hear' a lot of talk talk about how God is this or that but I remember asking someone to please give a practical post about how God has worked what they were 'teaching' about, in their life and they did not. I asked twice and they moved on.

THAT

is what I am talking about.

Thanks Rose and hugs back

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well 7seas, what "seems" to be real to you about me is way off as usual. This post here for instance. You describe my understanding of grace and faith. How can you do that? Your description is so void of the reality. How can you know my heart just from my coming to CC and posting here? You can't., and to say you do is very immature.

If I sound to you to be just toooooo joyful and happy all the time so that you can't possibly believe I'm for real.... well., is that my problem? No., it's really not my problem. The problem is yours alone no matter how hard you try to make it my problem., I'm not going to take that upon myself.

And as I've suggested to you before., since my posts vex you that much., you can easily avoid them by placing me on ignore. I heartily suggest you do so at your earliest convenience.

what kind of ego do you actually have?

the post was about me...not you...and how God has worked in my life

YOU are not the only one on this thread

you simply happen to illustrate the 'spirit' I am against. I am against this dismissal of any scripture that gives a false impression of Jesus and our walk with Him.

you take offense.

that is all that has happened.

if you were as genuine as you seem to suggest, would you not say that God has indeed blessed me? apart from me being WOF or NAR or a follower of Ellis or Prince?

listen....why are you angry? this is a DISCUSSION forum not a DISMISSAL forum.

do we not all have 'permission' to 'boast' about how God has blessed us or only if we agree with Prince or someone like him?

your post is telling, and again, if it were just you here on this thread, I would not be here, so relax

 

[7seasrekeyed]

[FONT=&quot]How can you know my heart just from my coming to CC and posting here? You can't., and to say you do is very immature. [/FONT]

no one at all in this thread has said they know your heart and you are making a false accusation

I will understand that you do not understand the nature of a forum and are taking things personally.

no offense and it is too bad that you interpret what I wrote about my own life as somehow denigrating of yours when no such intent was involved in my post

I will not answer any more of your posts wherein you accuse me of judging you or your heart or whatever else you come up with

this is simply not true and you are actually doing yourself, what you say I am doing

no worries.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

​Nehemiah., please read my post again and see what I wrote and not what you think I wrote. I said -had Judas gone to Jesus the way Peter did....he too would have been forgiven. Here.... I'll post it again for you...

Jesus approached Peter. Peter was too ashamed. Jesus asked Peter 3 x's if he (Peter) loved Jesus

interestingly, the same amount of times that Peter denied Jesus

now Jesus REALLY DOES KNOW our hearts which is why we are taught or learn to judge with righteous judgement, which means we DO NOT judge the heart as that is the place for our Lord

remember, that Jesus died while we were yet sinners. we were not looking for a savior...but God, in His righteous love and mercy, provided us with One

 

[7seasrekeyed]

as things can get clouded in threads and issues can be forgotten, I'll just repost this from an earlier page on this same thread;

hmmm

no one said you don't know what you believe. what is being said, is that Prince has extended what is true beyond the borders of what biblical truth is

most people here will attest to God's faithfulness and His grace and love. these are believers who have proven God true and UNDERSTAND the scriptures and do not appreciate the over reaching misapplication of grace that Prince and several others apply. that, has always been the contention as you well know

again, this does not mean we do not understand grace nor what it means to be IN Christ nor any other biblical doctrine

again and again you respond as though the rest of us have missed something along the way, when in actuality, we are trying to point out the heresies being taught in some circles

you are aware of that, no doubt, being a regular contributor here at CC

so it would be appreciated if you would refrain from appearing to want to make it seem we are against grace

we are against the NON-biblical teaching of grace

 

[MarcR]

Let's take a closer look at this, and see what Joseph Prince omits, and thereby presents only partial truth. I do not wish to nit-pick but we are required to prove all things in the light of Scripture.
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[TD="class: yiv3999919976mcnTextContent"]The biblically correct statement would be "do not doubt that God sees the perfection of Christ in you. Christians will only be perfected at the Resurrection/Rapture, but we have been given the "robe" of Christ's righteousness being justified by faith.


The fact is that all of us Christians are far from being perfect. That is the reality. But that is not doubting the perfect sacrifice of Christ.


We have been perfected in God's Divine foreknowledge ("elect according to the foreknowledge of God") since God has predestined each one of His children to be "conformed to the image of His Son"). Once again this perfection will become an accomplished fact at the Resurrection/Rapture. But according to Prince we are already perfect, which is false.

This is true at the moment a sinner repents and receives Christ as Lord and Savior. Prince omits the fact that at the same time we are to examine ourselves daily, confess our sins, and repent of our present sins since none of us is as yet sinlessly perfect. So once again we have false doctrine.

Once again, at the time of salvation, our sins are remitted and our guilt is removed. But that is not where the matter ends. As Paul says "But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup (1 Cor 11:28). Prince has a moral and spiritual obligation to bring this to the attention of the reader. So once again false doctrine.

But that is not what the apostle John tells us. What he says is "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all righteousness. So once again false doctrine.

This is totally absurd. Why would the Holy Spirit "convict" us of our righteousness? No, the Holy Spirit convinces us of our righteousness in Christ, but at the same time convicts us of our present sins so that we may confess and repent, and continue in fellowship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So, once again, false doctrine.

But what saith the Scripture? (Heb 12:5-13).

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gavethem reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he forour profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

So joaniemarie, while you are very fond of quoting Joseph Prince, what you are actually doing is presenting and promoting FALSE DOCTRINE.[/TD]
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Now I see the issue several on the forum have with the teachings of Prince.

I did not see this post as teaching sinless perfection. I thought Prince was preaching perfection in the sense of wholeness or completeness. Positionally God does not see our sin because it is covered by Jesus' blood. In our walk of faith God corrects our behavior not as punishment but as a molding of ourselves into His image; which is an ongoing process.

As mentioned earlier, my only contact with Prince's teachings has been four very uplifting posts by Joaniemarie.

I certainly admit that those who are more familiar with his teaching may have a basis for seeing it differently.

 

[Desertsrose]

Again sir, I have seen every single well know pastor/evangelist mentioned here attacked from Billy Graham to Macarthur to Meyers to absolutely anyone. Someone out there will not agree with their theology and will attack. This does nothing to edify God and just as when people disagree with each other and resort to personal attacks it makes the Christian community as a whole look bad. The apostles often disagreed with each other especially Peter and Paul but they confronted one another in person instead of in public because they realized the bigger picture was the winning of souls and not proving they knew more greek or hebrew or law than the other guy. The only difference between manipulation and ministry is motivation and without knowing any of these pastors/evangelist's motives to attack them because they are popular is contrary to making disciples of all men.

Hi FIS,

While it's true that we need to avoid personal attacks of our own brethren, if one is truly a false teacher, others need to be forewarned. I happen to be studying 2 Peter and chapter 2 is all about the false teachers who secretly bring in heresies.

Peter explained what these men are like. They are very cunning which is why the unsuspecting must be careful and learn the true knowledge of God so that they can discern truth from error. We need a keen eye and a clear head that's full of truth and filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit.

We have the enemies from without which are easily seen and discerned. But those who come in among us are truly difficult to spot. They come as an angel of light. They come bearing gifts of truth. That's the difficult part because they look like a sheep or look like a shepherd. Because they really do speak the truth. But with that truth, they also have a boatload of heresies that are placed right along with the truth.

So while I agree with you that we need to watch out for our tongues as far as speaking against a true brother and not attacking them personally, we do need to discuss their errors if they are teaching wrongfully so that we don't follow along with their error and repeat the bad teaching to others. In this sense we are our brothers keeper. We prove all things to be genuine or not genuine and then hold fast to that which is good (genuine).

We do need to speak of those who come in among us and are wolves in sheep's clothing. We are to sound the alarm. We have been warned so many times in scripture of false teachers that will come in and not spare the flock of God.

They are sensual, greedy, prideful........actually they are full of the ungodly trinity. They're full of lust with the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. They are consumed by their own lustful ways and are driven by them.

They are usually unnoticed at first because they come in as light and speak truth. The problem is their error is intertwined with the truth and only those who really know the scriptures well and are walking in the Spirit will notice the twisting of scripture.

The Lord, through Peter has nothing good to say about these men. They are like a dog that returns to its own vomit or like a sow who returns to wallowing in the mud.

They speak arrogant words and entice by fleshly desires by sensuality. They promise freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption. Like Balaam of Peor they love the wages of unrighteousness.

They are like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct who count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, in their deceptions they carouse with you who have eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin. They entice unstable souls and have a heart trained in greed and are accursed children.

They forsake the right way and are springs without water driven by a storm for who the blackest darkness has been reserved.

These are men who have known the way of righteousness and have turned away from the holy commandment handed on to them. They deny the Master who bought them and bring swift destruction down upon their own heads by their own doing.

Unfortunately many follow their sensuality and because of them, they way of the truth is maligned. They are daring and self-willed and revile angelic majesties.

These men/woman are in our churches. We eat and have fellowship with them. We praise and worship God with lifted arms, side by side.

Watch out. Know and heed the warnings of scripture so that you can spot these men/women and either have them removed from fellowship and if that doesn't happen, leave and find a church that doesn't entertain these types of people.

Read 2 Peter chapter 2 along with all the others warnings throughout scripture that speak of men who are false teachers. Watch an pray.

 

[Nehemiah6]

​Nehemiah., please read my post again and see what I wrote and not what you think I wrote. I said -had Judas gone to Jesus the way Peter did....he too would have been forgiven. Here.... I'll post it again for you...

No need. Here is what you said, and that is NOT correct. The atoning work of Christ did pay for the sins of Judas, as well as all evil doers (His enemies, Pilate, and every monster who has lived on this earth).

But had he waited, Jesus would have paid for his sins too. Even Judas's sin could have been paid for had he gone to Jesus like Peter did.

 

[followjesus]

Again sir, I have seen every single well know pastor/evangelist mentioned here attacked from Billy Graham to Macarthur to Meyers to absolutely anyone. Someone out there will not agree with their theology and will attack. This does nothing to edify God and just as when people disagree with each other and resort to personal attacks it makes the Christian community as a whole look bad. The apostles often disagreed with each other especially Peter and Paul but they confronted one another in person instead of in public because they realized the bigger picture was the winning of souls and not proving they knew more greek or hebrew or law than the other guy. The only difference between manipulation and ministry is motivation and without knowing any of these pastors/evangelist's motives to attack them because they are popular is contrary to making disciples of all men.

lol why is it always about what " we agree with" rather than WHAT GOD WORD ACTUALLY SAYS?????? why would anyone want to hear and follow someone who is teaching opposite Gods Word ? thats Nothing More than Being like eve God said what He said, and then someone else comes along and says " Nah, thats not true...listen to me" this particular op and the guy its promoting is completely backwards in what He teaches to anyone who actually Knows much scripture at all, its Like a bright red dot, on a white sweater it sticks out as much as the serpents words to eve.

There is no place to find where God doesnt see Our sins or sees us as perfect as were continuing on in sin. in fact i can take this op statement by statement and line up new testaments scripture that shows the exact opposite of this guys teaching from Gods Word Not a new "revelation" of my new and improved gospel, but from the Word of God. for instance just one example

this op states God doesnt see your sin only Jesus so He sees you as perfect.

Hebrews 4:12-12-13 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to give account."

another example when you sin dont acknowledge you have sinned, instead confess "im the righteousness of God in Christ"

1 john 1: 7-10 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.'



This small example should make clear why People understand this guy is not teaching Gods Word, but His own invention that would sell to people in order to make His fortune ( By the way, Hes One of the richest pastors in the World 500,000,000 and counting seems He is storing up treasure on earth, and forsaking the treasure in Heaven. everyone who is teaching herecy even when it sounds Nice and pleasant......Should be exposed from the rooftops, because truth and fallcay are Life and death

 

[followjesus]

Hi FIS,

While it's true that we need to avoid personal attacks of our own brethren, if one is truly a false teacher, others need to be forewarned. I happen to be studying 2 Peter and chapter 2 is all about the false teachers who secretly bring in heresies.

Peter explained what these men are like. They are very cunning which is why the unsuspecting must be careful and learn the true knowledge of God so that they can discern truth from error. We need a keen eye and a clear head that's full of truth and filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit.

We have the enemies from without which are easily seen and discerned. But those who come in among us are truly difficult to spot. They come as an angel of light. They come bearing gifts of truth. That's the difficult part because they look like a sheep or look like a shepherd. Because they really do speak the truth. But with that truth, they also have a boatload of heresies that are placed right along with the truth.

So while I agree with you that we need to watch out for our tongues as far as speaking against a true brother and not attacking them personally, we do need to discuss their errors if they are teaching wrongfully so that we don't follow along with their error and repeat the bad teaching to others. In this sense we are our brothers keeper. We prove all things to be genuine or not genuine and then hold fast to that which is good (genuine).

We do need to speak of those who come in among us and are wolves in sheep's clothing. We are to sound the alarm. We have been warned so many times in scripture of false teachers that will come in and not spare the flock of God.

They are sensual, greedy, prideful........actually they are full of the ungodly trinity. They're full of lust with the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. They are consumed by their own lustful ways and are driven by them.

They are usually unnoticed at first because they come in as light and speak truth. The problem is their error is intertwined with the truth and only those who really know the scriptures well and are walking in the Spirit will notice the twisting of scripture.

The Lord, through Peter has nothing good to say about these men. They are like a dog that returns to its own vomit or like a sow who returns to wallowing in the mud.

They speak arrogant words and entice by fleshly desires by sensuality. They promise freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption. Like Balaam of Peor they love the wages of unrighteousness.

They are like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct who count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, in their deceptions they carouse with you who have eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin. They entice unstable souls and have a heart trained in greed and are accursed children.

They forsake the right way and are springs without water driven by a storm for who the blackest darkness has been reserved.

These are men who have known the way of righteousness and have turned away from the holy commandment handed on to them. They deny the Master who bought them and bring swift destruction down upon their own heads by their own doing.

Unfortunately many follow their sensuality and because of them, they way of the truth is maligned. They are daring and self-willed and revile angelic majesties.

These men/woman are in our churches. We eat and have fellowship with them. We praise and worship God with lifted arms, side by side.

Watch out. Know and heed the warnings of scripture so that you can spot these men/women and either have them removed from fellowship and if that doesn't happen, leave and find a church that doesn't entertain these types of people.

Read 2 Peter chapter 2 along with all the others warnings throughout scripture that speak of men who are false teachers. Watch an pray.

thoroughly edifying post i Hope people take the time to read your post, and then go to the scriptures you have pointed them to Heres another from Paul that confirms what you are saying


2 timothy 4:1-4 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


Keeping in mind this was written 1900 years appx. ago. Heres an example that shows the source of true doctrine and gives us the way to see it

1 timothy 6:3-5 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

it doesnt seem as if paul is any different Hes not embracing teachers of false doctrine, He is exposing them to the church and instructing the church to part from, be rid of, have noithing to do with them. There is a reason as well because false doctrine Kills like it did from the start. and The truth of Gods Word saves and Gives Life eternal.....

 

[followjesus]

No need. Here is what you said, and that is NOT correct. The atoning work of Christ did pay for the sins of Judas, as well as all evil doers (His enemies, Pilate, and every monster who has lived on this earth).

But had he waited, Jesus would have paid for his sins too. Even Judas's sin could have been paid for had he gone to Jesus like Peter did.

Judas was doomed to destruction beforehand what He did was already written, it fulfilled scripture concerning Jesus being betrayed.

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."


God said in scripture that Jesus would be betrayed long beforehand in the prophets. Judas was the One who fulfilled that scripture He is a "son of perdition" Gods Word determines everything.

 

[MarcR]

lol why is it always about what " we agree with" rather than WHAT GOD WORD ACTUALLY SAYS?????? why would anyone want to hear and follow someone who is teaching opposite Gods Word ? thats Nothing More than Being like eve God said what He said, and then someone else comes along and says " Nah, thats not true...listen to me" this particular op and the guy its promoting is completely backwards in what He teaches to anyone who actually Knows much scripture at all, its Like a bright red dot, on a white sweater it sticks out as much as the serpents words to eve.

There is no place to find where God doesnt see Our sins or sees us as perfect as were continuing on in sin. in fact i can take this op statement by statement and line up new testaments scripture that shows the exact opposite of this guys teaching from Gods Word Not a new "revelation" of my new and improved gospel, but from the Word of God. for instance just one example

this op states God doesnt see your sin only Jesus so He sees you as perfect.

Hebrews 4:12-12-13 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to give account."

another example when you sin dont acknowledge you have sinned, instead confess "im the righteousness of God in Christ"

1 john 1: 7-10 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.'



This small example should make clear why People understand this guy is not teaching Gods Word, but His own invention that would sell to people in order to make His fortune ( By the way, Hes One of the richest pastors in the World 500,000,000 and counting seems He is storing up treasure on earth, and forsaking the treasure in Heaven. everyone who is teaching herecy even when it sounds Nice and pleasant......Should be exposed from the rooftops, because truth and fallcay are Life and death

I have not seen anything in the OP that can not be understood in a way that is consistent with Biblical truth.

If you have seen teachings by pastor Prince that are clearly unsound please post something to illustrate what you are saying.

I realize that this post can be seen as promoting the false doctrine of sinless perfection; but it can also be interpreted in a way which is Biblically sound.

Before I am ready to jump on his case I would need to see something clear cut. Otherwise he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Judas was doomed to destruction beforehand what He did was already written, it fulfilled scripture concerning Jesus being betrayed.

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."


God said in scripture that Jesus would be betrayed long beforehand in the prophets. Judas was the One who fulfilled that scripture He is a "son of perdition" Gods Word determines everything.

Agreed. But the issue was not the doom of Judas (already prophesied) but the presentation of the finished work of Christ as it related to sinners. Judas sins were also paid for, but that was of no avail to him. All those who reject the Gospel and reject Christ are in the same boat, although their sins have been paid for. But the Calvinists claim that Christ died only for the elect, and that confusing post I addressed seemed to imply an insufficient work of Christ.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If you have seen teachings by pastor Prince that are clearly unsound please post something to illustrate what you are saying.

you know, the Prince issue has been ongoing for a couple of years now I think it is?

I believe those who take issue with his teaching, have actually listened to him, studied up on what he has to say, or at the very least made themselves aware of why they say what they do

you know, I just did a simple search using prince's name and you would not believe all the threads that came up

they probably say it all and more. maybe start there

nobody wishes to be banned

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you have seen teachings by pastor Prince that are clearly unsound please post something to illustrate what you are saying.

Well I already did in great detail. We can only go by what he actually wrote, and he presented a lot of false doctrine in the OP. Others have also cataloged his false teachings on other occasions. You can check it out for yourself.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

ok Marc..thanks LOL~!

 

[FlSnookman7]

A couple of questions for DesertRose and FollowJesus...First, do you believe that every well known evangelist has false doctrine just because they are well known? The point I brought up is that NO MATTER WHO is mentioned here someone will disagree with them and attack them. Again, I have not read prince except for what I see here but it doesn't matter who it is someone here will call any well known pastor/evangelist a heretic.

Second question, do you believe God wants His children to be sick. poor and miserable while we are here on earth? I know the Word says to suffer with Christ but it also says by His stripes we are healed and that we have not because we ask not. It seems to me that we are often like the prodigal son's older brother. We see others being blessed and we get upset because we do not think they deserve those blessings or we feel like we should get them instead. If we would "work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling" and stop comparing ourselves to others we would be much better off.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is a radical concept that goes against everything we are taught in this world. As such it is to be expected that there will be those who do not accept it and feel the need to say "I follow all these rules and I haven't been blessed so why do those who rely only on Jesus get all the blessings?" The answer is that until we are able to break free of toxic faith (following a set of man made or church made rules to achieve self worth) and start practicing authentic faith (getting our self worth from who God says we are) we will not be able to operate from a place of love and security and we will instead be stuck operating from a place of selfishness and envy and there is only misery and despair and bondage there.

Paul knew that this would be the case and in fact he warned the galatians about that very thing. They were arguing that a man must be circumcised to be saved (toxic faith following law) and here is what paul told them...

Galatians 5:1-3 [FONT=&quot]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

We either follow the law or we acknowledge that Jesus and Jesus alone saves us. We can not do both...

Romans 10:2-4 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Whoops didn't mean to go so long here...shalom.

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[MarcR]

I just did a forum search on Joseph Prince. He certainly does preach the Word of Faith heresy.

Point well taken. I would certainly advise people who are seeking sound Biblical teaching to avoid him.

 

[followjesus]

biblically sound? Joseph prince??? here you go more thoroughly Here the op that you see no error in along side scripture


"God sees you with no flaw, spot or imperfection, so honor His Word and the finished work of His Son by saying, “Amen!” Don’t doubt your perfection in Christ.To see yourself as far from being perfect is not modesty, but a failure to understand the perfect sacrifice that Jesus has made for you."

pHILIPPIANS 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.


revelation 2:4-5 .....I know thy works.....Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
so wait Jesus Knows the churches works ? and actually has some things against them that they are doing???? see all the 7 letters in rev 2-3.why call for repentance and warn so sternly that if they dont repent of what He has against them, they will be removed from thier Place? is God unaware of thier deeds? can He not see thier sin? why call for confession why the "if" ?


if God doesnt recognize our deeds whether sinful why so much to the church regarding the dire necessaty to confess and repent? if were already perfect and God sees us as perfect, why in the world do we need to repent of Our sins? why would God Judge us for both Good and Bad since were actually perfect already in His eyes?

"The Bible tells us, “For by one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified”. Did you get that? You have not only been sanctified, that is, made holy, but by the same offering of His body, you have been perfected. You are both holy and perfect in God’s eyes!"


Your sins have been purged perfectly. Today, Jesus is seated at His Father’s right hand not because He is the Son of God (although that is true), but because His work of purging your sins is completely finished and perfect!"


"So instead of being conscious of your sins, which is to have an evil conscience (Hebrews 10:22), you can have a perfect conscience, a conscience that is free from the guilt and condemnation of sins.When you find yourself conscious of your sins, just say, “Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your wonderful work at the cross. It is a perfect work that has removed all my sins completely."


1 John 1:9-10 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."


so instead of ignoring my sins that i walk in, I need to acknowledge and then confess that I have sinned, and ask forgiveness. if i refuse to acknowledge when I sin, I have made God a liar. yet He is advising dont be conscious when you sin act as if you did no wrong because if you acknowledge you have sinned its an evil conscience. How if i refuse to acknowledge when i sin, can i ever confess them repent and be forgiven and cleansed?

and look at the single verse He quotes in Hebrews 10:22 but look 4 verses later after the sacrifice is explained.....


Henrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries"

this is to continue in sin AFTER One comes to the Knowledge of Jesus Christ, so then doesnt that Kind of prove God still sees our behavior after we become a christian??????? yes it does. God is not ignorant in fact He knows every single thought that passes through our mind, every deed good or bad we can no longer Hide from Him He is within us we are now MORE accountable because we were bought at a Higher price the blood of animals v the Blood of Jesus. the difference is the Power of the Holy spirit is now with us to make us able to do what We could not before.


His interpretation omits everything around it His message is " Because Jesus died, God can no longer see your flaws and sins, He is saying when you sin pretend you didnt sin, rather than acknowledging your own sin confessing and repenting, Just say : thanks Lord that Im righteous."


He teaches " God will never punish a believer for thier sin....The Bible teaches unless we repent of our sin, we will be held accountable for them.






“Holy Spirit, thank You for convicting me of righteousness, not my own, but God’s righteousness given to me as a gift. Keep on convicting me in the days to come, reminding me especially when I fail that I am still the righteousness of God in Christ.”


My friend, God sees you perfect without any spot of sin. He sees you covered in the beautiful white robes of His own righteousness. He treats you like a righteous man because that is what He has made you. So expect good things to happen to you because blessings are on the head of the righteous! (Proverbs 10:6)


right on the Head of the Righteous


1 john 3:Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."




He isnt saying " God sees you as perfect because Jesus died, your righteous regardless of what you do. Hes saying what you do determines righteousness, determines whether you are a child of God, or of the devil. Our actions matter to no end. we should never EVER think were perfect thats ridiculous Paul didnt even consider Himself perfet or finished. we should never ever pretend when we sin that we havent sinned or confess im the righteousness of God in response to our sin. its absolutely unbiblical 100 percent well 92 percent id say. the scriptures he pulls out of context are true, Just His interpretations are all backwards. the "jp gog" is a lie.