The Kingdom of God on earth and the rapture to heaven.

Depleted · Sep 25, 2017

Would you be so kind as to teach us how we, too, can become users who get to dictate who can use this site and who can't? I've got no idea how to answer Pretribs, Preterts, or people waiting around for the Great Tribulation to come, but boy, oh boy! I'd love to learn how to control who can and can't post.

(And about 20,000 other users are very glad I can't do that either. lol)

Depleted · Sep 25, 2017

Blain said:

Since history and current events teach us how believers pulled it off, and pull it off, the answer is both simple and hard-to-fathom. There is no guarantee we will get through it. History teaches us it is quite likely we'll die during it. BUT our hope is in the Lord, so we have beyond this life too.

I'm quite surprised Allen trusts the Great Tribulation is yet to come. He's 70 and living in South Africa. That tells me he lived through Apartheid. Wasn't that enough tribulation already?

Depleted · Sep 25, 2017

Allenbee said:

"Waiting for something that already happened... Kind of sad".

Well... here we have the unwelcome preterit !

IF that already happened ....where are the people living forever ?
Hey... lets go see the Lord in Israel ?
Hey... so great there's peace on earth ?

Yes you genius... of COURSE it happened before. Pattern and examples .

AS in the days of NOAH...as in the days of LOT... SEPARATE then destruction !

"OH they "Waiting for something that already happened... Kind of sad".

PRE TRIB AND PRETERITS ARE NOT GOING TO HELP SATAN.... TO try to DETRACT FROM TRUTH .

HEY ... srart your own thread !!!

Unlike YOU...we wont come and make satan stories.

You are the enemy of TRUTH|

Oy vey! So the Great Tribulation IS your gospel? Never mind. Out of here.

I like the real gospel. The one about God, not man.

kaijo · Sep 25, 2017

Depleted said:

What kind of oxymoron is "Still woman, but no lady" anyway?

All that means to me is ... "Im a woman, but i REFUSE to be portrayed as the 'body' portion, in a relationship, just like GOD intended...I'D rather be the 'HEAD'! You got it Wrong God!" rofl.

Where as , myself.. i GLADLY accept to be the 'body' portion , in my relationship with God. I do Everything i CAN , to be a 'Lady' when it comes to being His 'Bride'. lol

Allenbee · Sep 25, 2017

Since they have not been raptured, they are still around to expose your false doctrines and spiritual confusion.

Oh tell the truth for once...you like all the pretrib believers over here, have made fools of yourselves, and unfortunately you definitely will find yourself IN the great tribulation, unless you wake up to this lie.

So pray my friend, but if I may quote our Lord..."PRAY that your flight may not be in winter time NOR on the sabbath...FOR THEN there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred before nor ever again. In fact if those days were not cut short on account of the chosen ones... no flesh will be left alive.

Excuse me Mr pretrib... but do your blind eyes NOT SEE those approved ones go through the great tribulation protected by GOD?
On the other hand i'm not blind so I do see that, but I DON'T SEE your man made pretrib rapture there.

YES 144000 Messianic Jews, AND a great crowd come through the GT. Rev 7 ALL. (Who are NOT in heaven).

Ok then, if you insist on exposing my "false doctrine" as you say...well then just continue making a fool of yourself.

Let me help you with that; place your pretrib rapture in this end time scripure below... AND there's tons more coming OR... back-out.

Isaiah 25;
[FONT=&quot] O Lord, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for thou hast done wonderful things; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 For thou hast made of a city an heap; of a defenced city a ruin: a palace of strangers to be no city; it shall never be built.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Therefore shall the strong people glorify thee, the city of the terrible nations shall fear thee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 For thou hast been a strength to the poor, a strength to the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shadow from the heat, when the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 He will swallow up death forever;(End time prophesy for sure) and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

END TIME PROPHESY for survivors of the great tribulation on earth. (see a rapture buddy ?)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For in this mountain (Kingdom) shall the hand of the Lord rest, and Moab shall be trodden down under him, even as straw is trodden down for the dunghill.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 And he shall spread forth his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth spreadeth forth his hands to swim: and he shall bring down their pride together with the spoils of their hands.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 And the fortress of the high fort of thy walls shall he bring down, lay low, and bring to the ground, even to the dust.Rev 11;18, 16;19 , 18;4-10 Babylon the great city.

NEXT; Isaiah 24,26,32,35,40,41,49,52,54,55,60,61,62,65,66 ALL... and then the other end time prophets too, and Psalms, and... just everywhere. BUT.... NO PRETRIB RAPTURE.

ONLY THE GREAT TRIBULATION , AND BLESSINGS FOR THOSE THAT FLED TO LIVE GOD'S WAY.[/FONT]

Allenbee · Sep 25, 2017

Thank you KAIJO... back to you later.

Good name...Depleted
Oy vey! So the Great Tribulation IS your gospel? Never mind. Out of here.

I like the real gospel. The one about God, not man.

The next BIG event on this earth IS the great tribulation... even if you are a Preterit.
No madam... immediately AFTER the GT our Lord is here... THAT is my gospel, and how to be there.
Sorry I got old... hope you don't

A joke woman, as we will all sprout to 33 years old...forever OK.
(Our Lord is still 33).

Bladerunner · Sep 25, 2017

Allenbee said:

We do know our Lord is in heaven sitting at the right hand of YHWH with myriads of angels.
Therefore, we do know there is life in heaven and life on earth. Nothing new.

To avoid mindless squabbles, this site is only for believers in "the Kingdom of GOD" on earth, and those "chosen" by YHWH for heavenly life.

My hope is earthly, so my study is searching the scriptures to see how to survive the great tribulation.

Wasting time answering Petrib, or pretert belief...is exactly that. A wast of time, as they try to stop the search for TRUTH.

Then you will not get a lot of help.

kaijo · Sep 26, 2017

Weather some of us get to go to Heaven, or...ALL of us get to go to Heaven... does it really matter?

If the Earth of that time...is better than the earth of today, then whats there to complain about?

IF you are stuck on the Earth of that time... yet you manage to Impress HIM enough...during your stay on the New Earth... do you think its IMPOSSIBLE that He may decide to grant you access to Heaven , at His discretion?

NOTHING is Impossible for Him. Take Enoch for example.

Who are we to dictate what HIS laws will be, when the New Heaven and New Earth arrives.

MATTHEW 5:18

"For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled."

We may be able to determine some things because of the clues He left in the bible. But NO ONE has any idea what HES decided to create, and what the Laws will be ....countless ages from now.

Its like...only "eating" with a "wooden spoon" all your life. Then Someone offers you a "silver spoon" for the first time in your life...but your like... "NAHH i dont want the silver spoon! I want the diamond spoon! or the golden spoon!"

GIVE ME the silver spoon. I deserve None of it anywayz. I Already consider myself least in the Kingdom. Even the SCRAPS are like GOLD to me. I wont be complaining ^^

Allenbee · Sep 26, 2017

[h=3]Good thinking Kaijo, I agree.

Here is encouraging beauty from our God from Isaiah 35;

Joy of the Redeemed . ESV[/h][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]35 The desert and the parched land will be glad;
the wilderness will rejoice and blossom.
Like the crocus, 2 it will burst into bloom;
it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy.
The glory of Lebanon will be given to it,
the splendor of Carmel and Sharon;
they will see the glory of the Lord,
the splendor of our God.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]3 Strengthen the feeble hands,
steady the knees that give way;
4 say to those with fearful hearts,
“Be strong, do not fear;
your God will come,
he will come with vengeance;
with divine retribution
he will come to save you.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened
and the ears of the deaf unstopped.
6 Then will the lame leap like a deer,
and the mute tongue shout for joy.
Water will gush forth in the wilderness
and streams in the desert.
7 The burning sand will become a pool,
the thirsty ground bubbling springs.
In the haunts where jackals once lay,
grass and reeds and papyrus will grow.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]8 And a highway will be there;
it will be called the Way of Holiness;
it will be for those who walk on that Way.
The unclean will not journey on it;
wicked fools will not go about on it.
9 No lion will be there,
nor any ravenous beast;
they will not be found there.
But only the redeemed will walk there,
10 and those the Lord has rescued will return.
They will enter Zion with singing;
everlasting joy will crown their heads.
Gladness and joy will overtake them,
and sorrow and sighing will flee away.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Allenbee · Sep 27, 2017

My friends...forget your will, to do GOD'S WILL on earth.
SEE and HEAR our LORD;

ISAIAH 40
Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.
3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
4Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
5And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see ittogether: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
6The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
7The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
9O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
10Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
11He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
12Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
13Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
14With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
15Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
16And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.
17All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
18To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?
19The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.
20He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.
21Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? (GOD'S WILL for earth and man at Geneses)
22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
23That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.
24Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.
25To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
26Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.
27Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God?
28Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
29He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
30Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
31But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles;(Rev 12; 14) they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

NayborBear · Sep 27, 2017

"Messianic Gentiles".....A term I've not heard used before. I likes it though!

I personally believe that "thief in the night", is going to "catch" many people quite unawares, in its His (Jesus') manifestation.

I also personally believe concerning this "rapture", that ain't nobody goin' no wheres. For why would it be written, that were the "time" not "shortened", that no flesh would be saved? Don't think God was referring to animals only, do ya?

In the "idea sphere" of the rapture people/s, they are just longing to live their lives in peace, raise their families, yada, yada, as they "allow" the "hirelings" in their government, and churches, to dictate "their" terms of what "living in peace" is!

Deacon_D · Sep 27, 2017

Tell me how do you read Rev. 14:14?

Allenbee · Sep 27, 2017

Hello DEACON, I assume you ask as you have your own understanding, so please share.

Well... for my understanding I find it best to read Rev14 all.

So here we go with my present understanding in brackets, and please excuse my poor English.

The Lamb and the 144,000

14 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. (I take this as those marked at Rev 7;1-8) 2 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, 3 and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.(So if they are Jews from the 12 tribes, then they can only be Messianic Jews). These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.
The Messages of the Three Angels

6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. (So our Lord standing on Mt Zion must be immediately after the tribulation of those days. First 3 1/2 years ? ) 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, (WRATH to come) and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion[a] of her sexual immorality.” (CHURCH HQ destroyed ?).
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,( (satan cast down Rev 12;10) 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus ( survivors of the G Trib ).
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” (Mostly good Christians who don't flee. Rev 12; 17, as the woman, the flock,fled to the PREPARED wilderness...AWAY from the face of the serpent).
The Harvest of the Earth

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.”16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped. (Personally I don't believe this is Jesus as he doesn't take orders... HE gives them.

Soooooo... I believe this is one of the 24 angels with golden crowns at Rev 4;4.
17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of (this satan) earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.

Allenbee · Sep 27, 2017

Thats cool NayborBear, an they hide their silver and gold, their Merc's, their luxury mansions title deeds, their yacht's etc etc and all their IDOLS....CAUSE. "WE'LL BE BACK"

kaijo · Sep 27, 2017

Allenbee said:

Thats one possibility ^^.

At this stage though... i think its possible that GOD the Father can use angels ....as HIS messengers. Much like... when we put our "thoughts" into a txt , or email...and send it off to whoever we want to send the message to. (Writer would be the Father, and the email itself would be the angel.)

In "that" instance...therefore... it could be the Father giving the command to the Son..to begin the reaping....via angel ^^

kaijo · Sep 27, 2017

Allenbee said:

MATTHEW 24:36

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

..A little something to support that possibility ^^

Deacon_D · Sep 27, 2017

Ok, number one angels do not ride on clouds. Also who does the harvest represent? Who does the vines represent? Who sent angel from the temple? What it all boils down to is when you read, read slow. One stat ment at a time. But asking yourself who, what, where, and why.

Deacon_D · Sep 27, 2017

If you notice it says nothing about the year

Allenbee · Sep 27, 2017

Hey Deacon
No it says nothing about the year, or about bananas either !!!

What are you on about fella ? A pretrib perhaps ???

Now for the timing of Rev 14 SEE the opening verse;
14 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. Rev 7 ALL...144,000 Messianic Jews AND the "great crowd" who come out of the GT.

So the timing of the reaping is when our Lord is on mount Zion on earth already. So obviously , it is just after the sign of His presence at Math 24;29-30 which is immediately after the tribulation of those days.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. So HERE... is the rapture Deacon. AND fits perfectly with the same ONE AND ONLY rapture at Rev 14,14; where the one who is sittingt on the cloud is Jesus, and the earth was reaped. (rapture). AFTER the tribulation.
(Thank you Kaijo...great observation and help. Iv'e never bothered much about the rapture, as I want to be on earth with the Lord. Anyway...I think I need a 1000 years to come right).

SO...some go to heaven chosen by GOD (not man), AND some chosen by GOD (not man) to be with Jesus for the millennium. Cool huh !!!

HERE they are... "The cool left behind"

(new movie... as the earth is reaped of the bad guys).

17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia.
.

Allenbee · Sep 29, 2017

Now for the timing of Rev 14 SEE the opening verse;
14 Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. Rev 7 ALL...144,000 Messianic Jews AND the "great crowd" who come out of the GT.

About Messianic Jews.
Well the first Messianic Jews were YESHUA himself, ALL His apostles and as many who believed in our Lord from then to now. Many of the Jews who rejected Jesus and were scattered throughout the earth, intermarried with Christians. So especially to you Christians in America... check your bloodline going back as far as possible, and there ARE Jewish great great grandfathers or Grandmothers who were JEWS.

So...do NOT think the 144,000 are of the old rejected Jewish belief.
All OF THE 144,000 are Christians from Jewish bloodline, and many turning to our Lord today.
The rest of us believers have ancestors going back to Christian roots, or are Christians now by choosing to accept our Lord.

To me I don't really worry who the 144,000 are as persons alive on earth today, as they definitively are marked after the first part of tribulation at Rev 7;1-8. These ones lead the great crowd to safety and are seen WITH Jesus before the wrath of God. Rev 14 all, h; Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

.....................................................................................................

SO...are we to flee the coming destruction as instructed by Jesus ? Math 24; 14-22, Rev 12;14.

OR do we ignore that... and trust in a unwritten rapture before the great tribulation.?

I believe we flee worldwide as congregations... the "woman" at Rev 12.

Pretrib believers;please place your rapture belief below, at just one of hundreds of DEFINITE end time prophesies.

Joel 2; "before us a garden of Eden...behind us a desolate waste". Please read CH 2and3 ALL. See the blessings.

NEVER happened before, and the beauty of "flee to the mountains", "fly to the wilderness" and EXODUS !

The Kingdom of God on earth and the rapture to heaven.

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