The Concept of a Trinity

Nehemiah6 · Oct 7, 2017

Jesus did not have to SAY He is the most High in that passage. The fact that He accepted the declaration of Thomas as applicable to Him, and went on to speak about those who would believe without seeing Him should suffice.

But since He also said that He was "I AM", and "I AM" or "I AM THAT I AM" is the name of the Most High God, that should be more than enough for anyone, other than a person who is bent upon believing and teaching false doctrine.

oldhermit · Oct 7, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

There is no distinction between God and the divine titles applied to God. If Jesus is God, then he is by definition, the Most High.

Yeraza_Bats · Oct 7, 2017

jaybird88 said:

How does any of that help your argument? How does that disprove Christ and the Father are one? You have only helped my argument : p

Ive decided to post the entire chapter, and Ill bold the important parts that help my argument, that Christ is not "just a man" or " a really good man", but that He is one with God.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost, except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them,for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am,and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

Jesus clearly tells us that He was with the Father before us, that He shared in His glory, that He shares all things with God, and that He is returning to the Father. He makes these statements in other places in the Gospel as well-

John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

From Matthew 11- 27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

From John 16- "All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you."

John 14:9-11 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

Revelation 22:16
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Yeraza_Bats · Oct 7, 2017

jaybird88 said:

Ah, the "the Son of God cant be God" argument. Its a man made rule thats based on nothing more than our own feelings and opinions. The Father and the Son are one, the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, but the two are one.

The OT talks about the Spirit of God. (Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Job 33:4 The spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.)

Is the Spirit of God not a part of God?

jaybird88 · Oct 7, 2017

Yeraza_Bats said:

im not saying its one way or another as im not the final authority and im not going to accuse anyone of calling Jesus a liar when they disagree with my opinion.
if Son of the Most High means the exact same thing as Most High, where is this explained in scripture. im not aware of any. mybe it couldit could be but unless it can be proven with scripture, not doctrine, its just an opinion.

i always thought it interesting the breath of the Father gives live and we must continue to breath to sustain life.

Magenta · Oct 7, 2017

Prov910 said:

It was plainly stated. Is English not your first language? Shall I repeat it? You complain about people presenting what they believe as if they were right, while that is exactly what the OP did (and you, too!). You seem to have overlooked that as well. Do you have trouble comprehending simple, obvious things?

You have quite an active imagination, but you misuse and abuse it.

I am referring to the fact that repeatedly promoting heresies is not tolerated on this site, and that denying the Deity of Christ has been explicitly articulated as a heretical view and a bannable offense. You are easily threatened if my letting you know what is acceptable here makes you feel jeopardized in any way (unless you are promoting a heretical view).

You have repeatedly misjudged me. Go look in the mirror.

Angela53510 · Oct 7, 2017

Well, I see the OP dropped a heresy bomb and has not returned! Typical!

And it is against forum rules to post things that are totally heretical. The deity of Christ is simply not negotiable!

Sometimes, good doctrine counts! And seriously, anyone who repeatedly argues against the fact that Christ is God, and one with the Father, is not a Christian. Pretty basic! And why John wrote his gospel. To counter lies that Jesus was not God!

newton3003 · Oct 7, 2017

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Mea heretic?[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Isit heresy to discuss what is in the Bible?[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]Butif you feel that Jesus and God are physically one, let me ask you...[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]WhenJesus was on the cross and he says 'My God, My God, why hast thouforsaken me', was He talking to Himself? [/FONT]

jaybird88 · Oct 7, 2017

Angela53510 said:

so when scripture commands us to test all things thats actually a scripture we should ignore.

bluto · Oct 7, 2017

newton3003 said:

First of all Jesus and God the Father are "NOT" physically one newton. The way the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one is they have the same nature. In other words, they are one in nature and three distinct persons. What you have in common with your parents and the rest of humanity is that we are all one in nature and our nature is that of human. And as humans we are all distinct persons. You are not your father or mother or any other human person. Your a distince person.

In the Bible Jesus the Son often referred to Himself on numerous occasions as the "Son of God" and as the "Son of Man." This means that Jesus Christ is the "ONLY" of who had two natures. One on His mothers side which would be human and one on His Father's side which would be Deity. It's a universal law even nature that a son shares the same nature as his father. Beavers produce other beavers, humming birds produce other humming birds. All species produce after their own kind. This is not hard to understand.

And one more thing? I know at first reading of Matthew 27:46 it says, "My God, My God why have you forsaken Me" but if you compare scripture with scripture God the Father did not forsake His only begotten Son on that cross. Read John 16:32 or 2 Corinthiniahs 5:19 and then there is Psalm 22. Any other questions newton?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Magenta · Oct 7, 2017

newton3003 said:

It is heretical to claim that Jesus is not God. Scripture PLAINLY states He is. Jesus said many times, that that which He said and did came directly from the Father for Him to say and to do. He also told us those things He said were for our own benefit. Do you not know these things? Do you read the Bible? Are you aware that Jesus was quoting Scripture on the cross? It is the 22nd Psalm, which contains many prophecies concerning Him.

Here is a post by the most active mod articulating that denying the Deity of Christ is not acceptable. Please note that it is number one on the list

I am just letting you know so you do not get yourself in trouble. Some people would rather condemn me for being helpful than be grateful...

Oncefallen said:

MarcR · Oct 7, 2017

newton3003 said:

The crowd taunting Him were asking why He didn't save Himself. In reciting Ps 22:1, Jesus was in effect citing the entire psalm as an explanation of what was happening. He was NOT asking a question.

Prov910 · Oct 7, 2017

Magenta said:

I'm not sure what I said that warrants a response like this. Do you treat people like this in real life too?

It saddens and disappoints me that people who tout themselves as Christians treat others in this manner. On a Christian message board. Good day, ma'am.

Zmouth · Oct 8, 2017

LOL; ok then, if it is heretical to claim Jesus is not God, then is it heretical to claim that God is a book?

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matt 16:17

Johnny_B · Oct 8, 2017

Here's a verse with all three persons of the Godhead, show that the Holy Spirit is eternal. Hebrews 9:14"how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

Hebrews shows the diety of Christ in chapter one and the diety of the Holy Spirit in chapters 3, 10.

Hebrews 3:7-11 “Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear His voice,8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness,9 where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years.10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.’11 So I swore in My wrath,‘they shall not enter My rest.’”

Hebrews attributes this to the Holy Spirit and Psalm 95:7-11 attributes it to the Lord, Psalm 95:1, 7-11.

“Oh come, let us sing to the Lord;let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation!....7For he is our God,and we are the people of his pasture,and the sheep of his hand. Today, if you hear his voice,8do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah,as on the day at Massah in the wilderness,9 when your fathers put me to the testand put me to the proof, though they had seen my work.10 For forty years I loathed that generationand said, “They are a people who go astray in their heart,and they have not known my ways.”11 Therefore I swore in my wrath, “They shall not enter my rest.”

Hebrews 10:15-17 “But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Jeremiah 31:31, 33-34 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,….33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Hebrews attributes these to the Holy Spirit with Psalms and Jeremiah attributes these to the Lord, showing the Holy Spirit's diety and that He is the Lord God.

Silverwings · Oct 8, 2017

How can you possibly read the Bible and not believe in the Triune God? It is mentioned in many different places, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, 3 distinctively different persons, all in harmony one with the other.

jaybird88 · Oct 8, 2017

Silverwings said:

Mark 12:29

Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

i have no idea where people come up with such things.

Johnny_B · Oct 8, 2017

jaybird88 said:

The Hebrew word is "echad" which is one in unity. There is only one God, revealed in three person and all three are involved in our salvation Hebrews 9:14 "how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

All three involved in salvation and the Spirit in eternal, not a manifestation of God, He always was and always is. Just like the Father and the Son Jesus. How could someone believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not all God the one God of the Bible?

jaybird88 · Oct 9, 2017

Johnny_B said:

The Hebrew word is "echad" which is one in unity. There is only one God, revealed in three person and all three are involved in our salvation Hebrews 9:14 "how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

All three involved in salvation and the Spirit in eternal, not a manifestation of God, He always was and always is. Just like the Father and the Son Jesus. How could someone believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not all God the one God of the Bible?

what about the word "one", whats that word mean?

Zmouth · Oct 9, 2017

The only one true and eternal God is a being of invisible light which no man can see nor has seen.

This then is the message which we have heard of him (*Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature), and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1 John 1:5
* Col 1:15

The Holy Ghost is the only begotten of the eternal God is also a being of invisible light that only hath immortality.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given the Son to have life in himself; who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
John 5:26
1 Tim 6:16

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. John 7:16

The Concept of a Trinity

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