The Gospel Told by the Most High

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mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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It's interesting to me that you gather that thought from Scripture alone... For those are not my words, but His. We all know without His unmerited mercy, none would enter His kingdom, yet do we have to obey? Or is obedience optional?
They may be His words, yet His words tend to get twisted by works salvationists. It's not about "must or else" obey for believers, but will obey, if you truly are a believer. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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Everything? Are believers still under the Old Covenant? What Jesus taught in regards to the moral aspect of the Law found in the two great commandments still applies to believers under the New Covenant.
I agree fully the 2 Greatest Commandments on which all others hang are 100% valid and to be followed. BUt for clarification is that a yes or no to everything He taught?
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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They may be His words, yet His words tend to get twisted by works salvationists. It's not about "must or else" obey for believers, but will obey, if you truly are a believer. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers.
I agree, I personally want to be obedient because I want to please Him because He has done more for me that I can truly understand.

I know I know, , but it;s the word telling us what the new/renewed Covenant is;

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says יהוה: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Is it possible to not have His Instructions/Law in our heart and be a part of this Covenant?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I agree fully the 2 Greatest Commandments on which all others hang are 100% valid and to be followed. BUt for clarification is that a yes or no to everything He taught?
No, to everything He taught to Jews IN THE LAW OF MOSES, under the Old Covenant, yes to everything He taught that still applies to believers, under the New Covenant.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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No, to everything He taught to Jews IN THE LAW OF MOSES, under the Old Covenant, yes to everything He taught that still applies to believers, under the New Covenant.
Well Im not really sure how to reply to that other than to say it seems to go aginst what He Himself said;

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Well Im not really sure how to reply to that other than to say it seems to go aginst what He Himself said;

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
So we are still under the ENTIRE Law of Moses? We need to be careful not to confuse His teachings that apply to Jews under the Old Covenant and His teachings that apply to the Church, under the New Covenant. If we don't, then the Old Covenant ends up getting intermingled with the New Covenant.
 

Amberlight

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Oct 8, 2016
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Well Im not really sure how to reply to that other than to say it seems to go aginst what He Himself said;

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Mat 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

John/Yahanan 14:26, "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
Every day you keep trying to convince that we are under law of Moses every time we explain we are not.

Maybe you should take the hint .
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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So we are still under the ENTIRE Law of Moses? We need to be careful not to confuse His teachings that apply to Jews under the Old Covenant and His teachings that apply to the Church, under the New Covenant.
According to HIm nothing has changed from the Law untill the earth is renewed/made new:

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.”

The Law is the same, but it is no longer humans Levite priests but rather Yahshua after the order of the Messenger of Righteousness performing the duties as High Priest.

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until Yahchanan(John), since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

He even says that people being without Law is why there is a lack of love;

iniquity” is word # G0458 - anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459, Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) the condition of without law, 1a) because ignorant of it, 1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Yet mopst people hate the Law and call it a burden, John just said, "it is not heavy"

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

I want to point out that the words that are in italics* are ADDED, thus changing the meaning of the passage:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity,*that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only does the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to YHWH through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

Strong's Concordance, “enmity” is word #G2189 echthra: enmity, hostility, Original Word: ἔχθρα, ας, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: echthra, Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-thrah), Short Definition: enmity, hostility, Definition: enmity, hostility, alienation.

Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon) Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

I know everone hates it tho...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah(Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their revilings.”[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Every day you keep trying to convince that we are under law of Moses every time we explain we are not.

Maybe you should take the hint .
You may call it the Law of Moses, however in Moses day there was a Levitical priesthood, Yahshua is priest now, and He said the Law of Yah would not pass (mat 5:18 Rev 21:1-2) but I call it the Law/Instructions of my Father.

Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”

Mat 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh – the smallest of the letters – will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of YHWH; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of YHWH." 5:20, "“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the reign of the heavens.”

Mat 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deuteronomy 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."

Revelation 14:12, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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View attachment 166913

Isayah 46:10, "declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do,’"
Wow,

I learned about this truth of the Death and Resurrection of Christ years ago. I wish I had had or made a chart like this.

God's Salvation plan begins with Passover, it doesn't end with Passover..

Very nice Hizikyah.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Wow,

I learned about this truth of the Death and Resurrection of Christ years ago. I wish I had had or made a chart like this.

God's Salvation plan begins with Passover, it doesn't end with Passover..

Very nice Hizikyah.
I spent over a week just studying the basic principes of the Scriptual timeline to even get a foothold on it, months went into that, and I think Yah for guiding me to His truth, for He truly opens the door for those who knock! Thank you sir! halleluYah! that we can dwell on His truth! halleluYah!

Psalm 134:1-3, “Come, bless יהוה, All you servants of יהוה, Who are standing in the House of יהוה by night! Lift up your hands in the set-apart place, And bless יהוה.. .יהוה, Maker of the heavens and earth, Does bless you from Tsiyon!”
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Every day you keep trying to convince that we are under law of Moses every time we explain we are not.

Maybe you should take the hint .
Amen! Such people are always trying to imply that we are still under certain laws from the law of Moses that they believe they obey with flying colors and because of that, they will receive eternal life, but the rest of us do not obey those certain laws, so we will not receive eternal life. Christ is just NOT ENOUGH for people who wish to remain under the law of Moses. Oh the pride of man! :rolleyes:
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Amen! Such people are always trying to imply that we are still under certain laws from the law of Moses that they believe they obey with flying colors and because of that, they will receive eternal life, but the rest of us do not obey those certain laws, so we will not receive eternal life. Christ is just NOT ENOUGH for people who wish to remain under the law of Moses. Oh the pride of man! :rolleyes:
OK I never said who was or was not going to the kingdom, please don't imply that. That is not honest or fair to what I have said.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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OK I never said who was or was not going to the kingdom, please don't imply that. That is not honest or fair to what I have said.
Then why so much continued emphasis on the Law?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Then why so much continued emphasis on the Law?
Promoting His Laws does not have anything to do with condemming another, and He says they will not pass, yet virtually eveyone says they have passed. Accepting Messiah is not the end of our walk, but rather the beginning. The word is there that we may confirm the will of Yah. If we ask people what love is we will get an endless number of different answers, if we ask Yah from His word, we will get the same answer every time.

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."

1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Scripture is clear, the Law as Yah states and Yahshua teaches IS LOVE, Lawlessness is a lack of love;

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459, Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law, 1a) because ignorant of it, 1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

He said it, it is loving Him, how can we honor the greastest Commandment spoken of by Yahshua and not do it in the way YHWH says? any other way would be creating our own path, way, love, righteousness, will, walk, etc.

With that said, none are perfect, I want to say this as to not get accused of being holier than thou.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I agree that accepting Jesus Christ as Savior is not the end of our walk, but the beginning. It’s one extreme to say that nothing Jesus taught applies to the Church today under the new covenant, yet it’s another extreme to say that everything under the Law of Moses applies to the Church today under the new covenant.
 
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So we are still under the ENTIRE Law of Moses? We need to be careful not to confuse His teachings that apply to Jews under the Old Covenant and His teachings that apply to the Church, under the New Covenant. If we don't, then the Old Covenant ends up getting intermingled with the New Covenant.
One thing that gets swept under the rug, denied, rejected, overlooked, misapplied etc....JESUS was born, lived and died under the law which RATIFIED the NEW Covenant....

O.T.<----------->JESUS Birth, Life, DEATH, Resurrection<--------->NEW COVENANT

THE strength of SIN is the LAW which proves GUILT....NO MAN can KEEP IT 24/7/365....IT PROVES GUILT and DOES NOT JUSTIFY before GOD, but rather POINTS to the ONE WHO DOES justify before GOD......THE imputed righteousness of Christ WITHOUT the LAW by FAITH.......

THE ABOVE gets rejected, denied and swept under the rug BY ALL who push a law abiding, works for salvation.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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I agree that accepting Jesus Christ as Savior is not the end of our walk, but the beginning. It’s one extreme to say that nothing Jesus taught applies to the Church today under the new covenant, yet it’s another extreme to say that everything under the Law of Moses applies to the Church today under the new covenant.
I guess if you look at it as the Law of Moses" I can understand how one would take that view, however it's the Law of the Creator of the heavens and earth, yes there was a time when it was given through Moses but Yahshua is the mediator now, not the Levites or Moses. Yahshua says;

Mat 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh – the smallest of the letters – will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of YHWH; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of YHWH."

And no it's not me tryin to be great, but clearly one is a positive and one is a negative. and again it is the only true standard of Love.

"For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His..."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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One thing that gets swept under the rug, denied, rejected, overlooked, misapplied etc....JESUS was born, lived and died under the law which RATIFIED the NEW Covenant....

O.T.<----------->JESUS Birth, Life, DEATH, Resurrection<--------->NEW COVENANT

THE strength of SIN is the LAW which proves GUILT....NO MAN can KEEP IT 24/7/365....IT PROVES GUILT and DOES NOT JUSTIFY before GOD, but rather POINTS to the ONE WHO DOES justify before GOD......THE imputed righteousness of Christ WITHOUT the LAW by FAITH.......

THE ABOVE gets rejected, denied and swept under the rug BY ALL who push a law abiding, works for salvation.
Your making sweeping assumtions and applying them when these things were never stated by me.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 7 -7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

Romans 7 -12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.”[/FONT]


 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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So we are still under the ENTIRE Law of Moses? We need to be careful not to confuse His teachings that apply to Jews under the Old Covenant and His teachings that apply to the Church, under the New Covenant. If we don't, then the Old Covenant ends up getting intermingled with the New Covenant.
I think you miss his point. He isn't "Saying" anything, he is simply quoting our savior on His Word's relevant to the thread he started.

According to the bible, the "Covenants" that were changed pertain to the remission and justification of sins. Not the definition of sins. Before Christ there were Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission and justification of sins. Before Christ, if I sinned, I had to find a Levite Priest to perform ceremonial, sacrificial "Works or Deeds of the Law" contained in the Levitical Priesthood. Gentiles were not allowed to partake in these ceremonies. See Heb. 7-10. These fleshy, carnal "Works of the Law" were "ADDED" until the SEED should come. Gal. 3:19

Since the Mainstream Church of that time rejected Jesus as their Messiah, they continued to perform and preach these "Deeds of the Law" for justification of sin and rejected the idea that Grace, through faith is what cleansed and justified sins, not the designed "works of the Law" contained in the Law of Moses. As Paul told the Galatians:

Gal. 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, (Sprinkling goats blood on the alter as prescribed by the Levitical Priesthood)or by the hearing of faith? (Belief that it is Christ's blood that frees us from the death our transgression caused us).

So when Paul said "By works of the law shall no flesh by justified", he is speaking to the laws that were specifically designed for justification of sin, not the entire definition of God's Righteousness defined in the Old Testament.

This "Change in the law", (New Covenant) as Heb. 7 speaks to, has nothing to do with the definition of sin, only the remission of sin.


There is a widespread teaching, accepted by "Many", that preaches the New covenant replaces the entire "Mosiac" (as they call it) law structure which is there to define sin. (for by the Law is the knowledge of sin) This teaching is false as scriptures show us.

This explains why the Apostles in Acts 15 directed the New Converts to obey several of God's Commandments, then sending them to learn from Moses as Jesus instructed them to do in Mat. 23. And it explains why they didn't send them to the Sect of Pharisees which believed who preached they needed to be circumcised and "Command them to follow the Law of Moses, including animal sacrifice.

I hope that helps