What happens to people who never here about Christ?

[Johnny_B]

This is a question I have been thinking about quite a bit lately. What if a person never hears about the Gospel and never knows there is a God who cares about them and does evil things but they don't know any better because they have never read the words of the Bible. Are they going to go to heaven or to hell?

Bad Question:

This question, which is often posed, always asks what happens to people who are innocent, or who don't know about God.

But most philosophical questions which are anti-theistic tend to be illogical questions.
They usually start with presuppositions which are never established, and which are incorrect... such as the presuppositions here, that there actually IS anyone who is innocent, or who doesn't know about God.

2 Theological Views:

There are two theological view on this issue.

The Calvinist view:
A. There is no one who is innocent, who lives their life without committing willful sin.
B. There is no one who is without knowledge of God... as it is clearly shown in creation.

The Armininan view:
Oops... it's exactly the same as the Calvinist view.

It seems most theologians agree on this.

Next Question:

Now, if instead of wanting to know what happens to "innocent" people, who are "without knowledge of God" (which don't exist) you want to know what happens to sinners, in some remote place, who are repentant.... here the 2 theological camps might have some different answers.

But I think both theological camps would agree God has no shortage of mercy and grace, and he is always just.

Brother I agree with you "there are none innocent" with that I did not see the OP making that statement or observation or did I miss something?

Romans 3:10-26

“There is none righteous, no, not one;11 there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God.12 They have all turned aside; they have together become unprofitable; there is none who does good, no, not one.”

13 “Their throat is an open tomb; with their tongues they have practiced deceit”; “the poison of asps is under their lips”;14 “whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”

15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;16 destruction and misery are in their ways;17 and the way of peace they have not known.”

18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Then we look at what follows, what brings us toi the knowledge of sin.

3:19-20 “Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

Now that we know sin we can be introduced to God's mercy and grace.

21-26 “But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”

 

[SovereignGrace]

The Bible says every creature knows the Creator, if they don’t they are suppressing the truth. The Bible also says that for them, their conscience is a law onto themselves. And it also says “He who knows the good he ought to do, yet chooses not to, sins.” So no worries, God has everything covered.

Yet, Jesus is the only way to the Father. If they do not know the Christ, they do not know the way to Him.

 

[IamWhoIam]

This is a question I have been thinking about quite a bit lately. What if a person never hears about the Gospel and never knows there is a God who cares about them and does evil things but they don't know any better because they have never read the words of the Bible. Are they going to go to heaven or to hell?

Hmm well, let's say you walked outside your house and a rock fell from the sky and landed on you and that was it your gone,
was it the rock's fault because it fell from the sky or your fault because you walked outside your house?

Let's say you knew the Rock was falling from the sky and you still walked out your house and got struck by the rock who's fault is it?

 

[trofimus]

Depends what they believe in.

If they have a religion where they worship one Creator and if they believe that this Creator died for their sins and faults and rose from the dead after, they can be saved, even without knowing the real name of Jesus and the rest of the background.

If not, they are doomed, IMHO.

 

[notuptome]

Classic argument which is addressed in Romans 1. God reveals Himself two ways. First through His word and secondly through creation. This is why all men are without the I didn't know excuse. They know they just don't like what they know so they set about to change God into something more acceptable to them rejecting God for who He is.

Gods arm is not weak that He cannot save any soul that will receive Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Romans 2:12-16

"For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."

From what Paul says here they have the Law of God written on their hearts and their conscience is what guides them. Notice verse 15, "their conflicting thoughts accuse them or excuse them" when does it accuse or excuse them from? verse 16, when Jesus judges the secrets of the heart.

There are those that say that if a person does not repent and confess that Jesus is Lord they will not be saved, which I agree with. Yet this portion of Scriptutre seems to make a conssesion for those that never have heard the Gospel, but in their hearts obey the Law of God. They understand that stealing ir wrong, that murder is wrong, having sex with someone elses wife is wrong and they either agnore their conscience or they obey their conscience to obey the Law of God.

Repentance the act of comforting oneself is a work of God. It comes by hearing God through the scriptures as the perfect law of God. .His source of faith that works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure. .

Our conscience which is dead in its trespasses and sin is not a source of faith by which we can believe God. Deceitful hearts as in who can know it are simply judgement halls that either accuse us or excuse us.

The prison system if full of those who trusted their own hearts .They are said to not have a conscience but it is by that conscience that they sin against the written law of God. The scriptures are the one source by which we can believe Him not seen

The law of God, the gospel as it is written it alone can quicken our hearts and give us His understanding .

The man without the written law perishes without it. The man that has the written law is judged by it.

 

[garee]

Classic argument which is addressed in Romans 1. God reveals Himself two ways. First through His word and secondly through creation. This is why all men are without the I didn't know excuse. They know they just don't like what they know so they set about to change God into something more acceptable to them rejecting God for who He is.

Gods arm is not weak that He cannot save any soul that will receive Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I would suggest we can only hear God through the written word alone. We do not know God after the things seen other than the letter of the law, as it is written. It alone provide the faith to believe Him. The law of faith.

There is no gospel written in the stars ( the philosophical gospel as an oral tradition of men) . The rudiments of this world will go up in an everlasting smoke and the new creation not made after the rudiments of this world will then come in . We are not what we will be and neither is the corrupted creation we live in .

The existence of God cannot be proven in a science lavatory using a microscope or a telescope looking into the sky. We walk by the exclusive faith (the faith of God) that comes from hearing God

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[notuptome]

I would suggest we can only hear God through the written word alone. We do not know God after the things seen other than the letter of the law, as it is written. It alone provide the faith to believe Him. The law of faith.

There is no gospel written in the stars ( the philosophical gospel as an oral tradition of men) . The rudiments of this world will go up in an everlasting smoke and the new creation not made after the rudiments of this world will then come in . We are not what we will be and neither is the corrupted creation we live in .

The existence of God cannot be proven in a science lavatory using a microscope or a telescope looking into the sky. We walk by the exclusive faith (the faith of God) that comes from hearing God

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Romans 1 declares the revelation of God in nature. Yes the word of God gives the specifics but before we can get to that point we must believe that God is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Heb 11:6

Do not use Col 2:8 to make them religious before you evangelize them. Context is important and allowing God to be God is important.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

You are putting the cart before the horse. Romans 1 declares the revelation of God in nature. Yes the word of God gives the specifics but before we can get to that point we must believe that God is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Heb 11:6

Do not use Col 2:8 to make them religious before you evangelize them. Context is important and allowing God to be God is important.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Thanks .With all due respect I am not saying that God does not use the things seen to testify of Him not seen. He defines what is good by that which he creates. Even the Son of man rejected worship in respect to the things seen, His own flesh ,which he says it profits for nothing. He said only God not seen is good.

The corrupted heavens and earth declare the unseen glory of God. But speak nothing of his love or plan of salvation. It was my goal to support Col 2:8. We do not know God after shadows, worshiping the things not seen by a faith that alone comes from hearing God, by and through as it is written. The hearing of His faith as he gives us ears to hear what the Spirit is saying.

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, Col 2:17

 

[Johnny_B]

Repentance the act of comforting oneself is a work of God. It comes by hearing God through the scriptures as the perfect law of God. .His source of faith that works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure. .

Our conscience which is dead in its trespasses and sin is not a source of faith by which we can believe God. Deceitful hearts as in who can know it are simply judgement halls that either accuse us or excuse us.

The prison system if full of those who trusted their own hearts .They are said to not have a conscience but it is by that conscience that they sin against the written law of God. The scriptures are the one source by which we can believe Him not seen

The law of God, the gospel as it is written it alone can quicken our hearts and give us His understanding .

The man without the written law perishes without it. The man that has the written law is judged by it.

I agree with you, but the OP is about those that do not have the written Law of God or heard the Gospel. I posted the Scriptures that deals with that question.

Can you explain the context of Romans 2:14-16?

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.”

 

[celib]

This is a question I have been thinking about quite a bit lately. What if a person never hears about the Gospel and never knows there is a God who cares about them and does evil things but they don't know any better because they have never read the words of the Bible. Are they going to go to heaven or to hell?

When Christ returns he will rule with his elects for a thousand years, Rev.20, that will be judgment day, anyone who didn't get a chance to know Christ will get there chance then, that includes many so called Christians who are being deceived by there church, such as the rapture theory. God bless

 

[SovereignGrace]

No one will be in heaven that did not come thru Christ nd no one in hell that does not deserve to be there....

To answer your question....they will die lost.....as tragic as that may seem note the following...

a. Day unto day and night unto night utters speech
b. The invisible things testify to the power of God
c. The conscience is built into all men
d. All men have an inherent desire to worship something
e. The grace of God that brings salvation shines down upon ALL MEN
f. God would have all men be saved and come to the truth

The bible states that all are accountable and none without an excuse.......

There's a common misunderstanding on pretty much every Christian message board I have been a member of. Ppl say that the lost go to hell because they rejected the Christ. If so, then what about those who died never hearing the gospel, never knowing the Christ came and lived as a man and died in sinners stead? By using that logic, they never denied the Christ, ergo, they're ushered into heaven. Then that makes the gospel a message of doom and not hope and eternal life. They were A.O.K. until those blasted missionaries came and presented them the gospel and once they rejected the Christ, they're in danger of an eternal gehenna.

 

[stillness]

While I agree with you, I am confused a bit.
I think you stated in another thread that some are chosen by God for Heaven, predestinated, and some are not.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Many are called (as disciples) but few are chosen (to rule with Him): Revelatons: Called chosen and faithful: Predestinned to conform to the image of His Son. "Strive to make your calling an election shure," "Strive to enter His Rest." Dosent mean the rest are lost but that they are among the nations of the saved but lose the reward of the high calling.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Many are called (as disciples) but few are chosen (to rule with Him): Revelatons: Called chosen and faithful: Predestinned to conform to the image of His Son. "Strive to make your calling an election shure," "Strive to enter His Rest." Dosent mean the rest are lost but that they are among the nations of the saved but lose the reward of the high calling.

 

[stillness]

The Bible says every creature knows the Creator, if they don’t they are suppressing the truth. The Bible also says that for them, their conscience is a law onto themselves. And it also says “He who knows the good he ought to do, yet chooses not to, sins.” So no worries, God has everything covered.

God is the "Saviour of all men, especially of them that believe," It's written. God took the blame for His creation: All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man, but rejecting the Holy spirit shall not be forgiven." Jesus said that rejecting Him would be forgiven, and otherwise His own disciples would be lost having rejected Him and fled on the night of His betrayal: this is the meaning of, there is none righteous, and why Jesus had to take the blame for His creation, his own closest disciples could not pray with Him in the hour and power of darkness, in the garden of Gethsemane. Now Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh and there are believers who remain divided between 2 masters who will lose their reward and I think there a are few who are thought of the Holy Spirit and don't know about following Jesus who will not lose their reward. There is no limit to God, can you think outside the box: How about knowing the mind of God, "If any man thinks He knows, he does not know as He should." If we think we know, we stop learning: doesn't take much to amuse small minds. How does God amuse Himself then? Creates people with small minds, "And for Your pleasure we are created.'

 

[EarnestQ]

It seems to me that God's loves His children so much that He sent His one and only human born Son to die in our place. Would He send one of His children to Hell because he was isolated? I don't think so. Indeed I am convinced that God would work a miracle to make sure that His isolated child would have some way of hearing or reading the Gospel. ....P.... So, if an isolated tribesman in remote "whoflungdung" is sincere about wanting to know the truth of God, God will provide a missionary, or maybe have a Bible fall out of an airplane, or send a survey crew to that remote place to lead those (elected) children of God into the kingdom. God does not neglect His own. ....P....This computer or CC is not allowing me to use paragraphs.

 

[Enow]

This is a question I have been thinking about quite a bit lately. What if a person never hears about the Gospel and never knows there is a God who cares about them and does evil things but they don't know any better because they have never read the words of the Bible. Are they going to go to heaven or to hell?

God the Father knows who will receive Him from those that will not. An example of this can be found here:

Acts 16:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,[SUP] 7 [/SUP]After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.[SUP]9 [/SUP]And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.[SUP]10 [/SUP]And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

This was a guideline as well as a promise from God for all those that seek Him.

Matthew 7:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Because of the oppressed atmosphere that muslims live under, one would wonder how any one can preach the gospel to them, but God the Father has been revealing His Son to those that seek Him by way of visions & dreams, and they believe.

One may wonder about the American Indians, but remember, Philip was transported after ministering to that Ethiopian eunuch to another place.

Acts 8:[SUP]37 [/SUP]And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.[SUP] 38 [/SUP]And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.[SUP] 39 [/SUP]And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.[SUP] 40 [/SUP]But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

The Lord could have sent any one of the many 120 disciples that had gotten saved that Pentecost day to the Western Hemisphere as He has done with Philip in the known lands, especially when He knew there were some that sought Him.

So I believe in His words that there will be no one in hell that would claim that they would have believed if they had heard the gospel when alive. God the Father knows whom is seeking Him to come to the light from those that are not seeking him because they love their evil deeds rather than come to the Light to have their evil deeds reproved.

John 3:[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.[SUP]21 [/SUP]But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 6:[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.[SUP] 39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So no matter where they are in the world, God will get the gospel to them by missionary, or by revelation through a vision or dreams. No one will be in hell that would say they would have believed if they had heard the gospel.

Of course, that does not negate the call to share the Good News to those that seek Him.

1 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

[Zmouth]

I would suggest we can only hear God through the written word alone.

Did you come to the knowledge of the truth before you heard God through the written word alone, or did you hear God after you came to the knowledge of the truth?

 

[Issachar92]

No one will be lost due to ignorance.

Romans 1 answers your questions dear friend.

God is close to all who call on Him, even in the midst of idolatry like Abraham was.

 

[Zmouth]

No one will be lost due to ignorance, but what about those who reject knowledge?