Not By Works

[VCO]

So many here share their Faith in the Lord to be told they serve a false Prophet and have a False Gospel.. you can not serve a verse or two of Paul’s writings and proclaim all who Love and obey the Lord will be told to depart.. If it were not so serious it could be laughed off.. but it is deadly serious...

Would you not have us share the TRUTH with them?

Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, andfew find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
{The GOOD FRUIT is Listed starting in GAL. 5:22, and works are not FRUIT.}
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many{Would you not have us warn them?} will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’ {THAT is a reference to the inner personal LOVE relationaship that is ESTABLISHED when you BELIEVE TO THE POINT OF COMPLETELY TRUSTING HIM FOR YOUR TOTAL AND COMPLETE SALVATION, with the Holy Spirit pouring GOD's LOVE into your heart (Rom 5:5). It is that LOVE that enables us SHOW our LOVE for HIM by lovingly surrendering to Jesus, chosing to OBEY HIM as an act of LOVE, because HE SAVED US, PAST TENSE.}
IF a Church goer has NO inner personal LOVE relationship with JESUS to THAT DEGREE, it means they are Pretend Christians on the Wide Road to the Destruction of HELL. AND YOU WOULD HAVE US NOT WARN THEM? Easy Believism's watered down LOVE ONLY False GOSPEL, and the "I have to WORK to earn part of my Salvation and work to Keep my Salvation", are like TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN, a FALSE GOSPEL that lead's MANY onto the BROAD ROAD going towards the Destruction of HELL.

The only pure motive for all acts of obedience, is if it is ONLY a way for you to show LOVE for HIM, because HE SAVED YOU PERMANENTLY THE VERY MOMENT YOU FIRST GENUINELY BELIEVED establishing that permanent inner personal LOVE RELATIONSHIP with JESUS.



John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands. {SEE IT? Obedience NEVER WAS a way to justify yourself before God; it only was a way to show your LOVE for GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ.}



Galatians 5:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.


And you apparently think it is WRONG to Warn them. Where I come from, that is PART OF THE PROBLEM, and NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION.

 

[Rosemaryx]

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

kataponeó: to wear down​

Original Word: καταπονέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataponeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap-on-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I ill-treat
Definition: I exhaust by labor or suffering, wear out, overpower, oppress.

Hi Dcon...I must admit after reading the post from those who say they do not sin really did wear me down ...
But today I know that if we were sinless like Jesus, why would God Himself be training us up, God gives us 24 hrs a day, He knows that in one day we will not be made like Jesus, He knows we have or have had unforgiveness in our hearts that only He can take away, it is a process, we are His workmanship, if we were all sinless, then we would need no guidance from the Holy Spirit

Sorry I have not used Scripture, but this is what I believe to be true...God is the potter, we are His clay, He is moulding us, He is changing us into His likeness, this sinless posting really unnerved me, I know we must not go back to our ways when we once walked in ignorance, we must not willfully sin, but we will all sin and fall short of His holy grace, thank God for His Son our Saviour, all the glory to God who keeps my mind straight through His promises...xox...

 

[Studyman]

Did I say I disagreed?

One had faith the other did not....one was saved and one was not and the points are clear bro.....at the end of the day false teachers are identified with CAIN who is first on the list in JUDE....a LOST man that offered works void of faith............the cart before the ox syndrome....

Well that didn't answer my question, but that's alright. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

[PHart]

At the same time, a verse was brought to my remembrance, the one that says the word of God is so powerful that it divides or separates apart, the spirit and the soul.

I think this splitting apart has something to do with how God can reside in me even though my flesh will never stop wanting the awful things it wants, like angry pride when it isn't "respected."

Don't be deceived by this popular but erroneous thinking in the church today. So many are teaching and believing that sin is okay because that's your flesh while your spirit is good with God.

If you continue in Christ, and I think you will (you strike me as being a devout Christian) you will come to the place where the things you struggle with now will not only be defeated in your life but you will not want to do them anymore. Do not accept a compromised gospel that teaches you that your flesh is going to continue in the bondage of sin and will always want to sin the same old sins but it's okay because you're good on the inside with God. That's a horrible compromise with sin that the Bible does not teach. But it is the belief that most Christians, it seems, have adopted.

I used to be a rage-aloholic. Anger and rage were my tools of choice to scare and bully people into submission in order to keep my life safe and carefree, and to keep me 'right' about things (for fear of the truth). But I've grown in Christ, and now not only do I not use those tools of the flesh to get my way I don't want to use those things anymore. I've been taught by God to trust Him for what I was trying to gain for myself by bullying mean and inconsiderate and hurtful people into compliance with my anger and rage.

The scripture that acted like the piercing sword in heart, separating me from my sin by destroying it in me, was this:

"1What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? 2You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. " (James 4:1 NASB)​

The word that acts like a double edged, piercing sword separates us from our disobedience. The word is not a sword that separates our sin from our spirit so as to make it that we can accept sin in our bodily members while we relish the righteousness of Christ we have on the inside and so all is good with God. If we try to justify and rationalize bondage to sin by assuring us it's only in our body not in our spirit because of Christ's righteousness we will in fact not be good with God at all. We will be assigned a place with the hypocrites at Christ's return where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth:

"...for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.45“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48“But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:44-51 NASB)​

 

[TruthTalk]

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of their followers, who approve their sayings. "Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them." The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

Notice to Seohce: this post is, "Abusive and Rude", which is a violation of Christianchat.com rules. Your post has been copied and reported to the Moderator's. I will tell you again, "Cease and Desist", from responding to my post's, if you do not I will report you to the Moderator's again.
And for the record you are not a very nice person.

Quote: My post to Decon, I was not even speaking to Seoheo, and he has been on my Ignore list for 3 or 4 months.

Originally Posted by TruthTalk

Hi Decon, all of your post's here present a simple clear and true gospel which is how it is represented in the Holy Scriptures; to subtract from or add to what the bible say's about our eternal salvation is a sin. Thank you for your ministry and be well migo...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Don't be deceived by this popular but erroneous thinking in the church today. So many are teaching and believing that sin is okay because that's your flesh while your spirit is good with God.

If you continue in Christ, and I think you will (you strike me as being a devout Christian) you will come to the place where the things you struggle with now will not only be defeated in your life but you will not want to do them anymore. Do not accept a compromised gospel that teaches you that your flesh is going to continue in the bondage of sin and will always want to sin the same old sins but it's okay because you're good on the inside with God. That's a horrible compromise with sin that the Bible does not teach. But it is the belief that most Christians, it seems, have adopted.

I used to be a rage-aloholic. Anger and rage were my tools of choice to scare and bully people into submission in order to keep my life safe and carefree, and to keep me 'right' about things (for fear of the truth). But I've grown in Christ, and now not only do I not use those tools of the flesh to get my way I don't want to use those things anymore. I've been taught by God to trust Him for what I was trying to gain for myself by bullying mean and inconsiderate and hurtful people into compliance with my anger and rage.

The scripture that acted like the piercing sword in heart, separating me from my sin by destroying it in me, was this:

"1What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? 2You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. " (James 4:1 NASB)​

The word that acts like a double edged, piercing sword separates us from our disobedience. The word is not a sword that separates our sin from our spirit so as to make it that we can accept sin in our bodily members while we relish the righteousness of Christ we have on the inside and so all is good with God. If we try to justify and rationalize bondage to sin by assuring us it's only in our body not in our spirit because of Christ's righteousness we will in fact not be good with God at all. We will be assigned a place with the hypocrites at Christ's return where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth:

"...for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.45“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48“But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:44-51 NASB)​

Long post! But its okay. You are one of the few whose long posts I don't mind and dont find burdensome.

I'm not sure I am erroneous. (Addressing your first paragraph before I read the rest or I'll forget my thought.)

I'm not saying my mistrusts or areas of waver are okay. They are sin. That is not subject to dispute. Whatever is not of belief and trust is sin. I won't embrace it or try to say it is okay. It is sin. Thank God for the Blood and for His patience with me.

But I have had some struggle over how it is that God can live in me when that sin/mistrust/area of unbelief also exists and resides there. It seems impossible to me. How can Holy live with unholy? That verse seems to at least vaguely give me some indication of how its possible for Him to reside in me even while He is purifying and perfecting me...

 

[Snoozy]

u know how the people who go soul-winning alot are usually criticized for "1-2-3 repeat after me" and producing fake converts? i think the works salvationist should have their own term too "1-2-3 repent after me"
btw im not saying repentance isnt necessary. im just saying i wonder how much of good news is preached.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Don't be deceived by this popular but erroneous thinking in the church today. So many are teaching and believing that sin is okay because that's your flesh while your spirit is good with God.

If you continue in Christ, and I think you will (you strike me as being a devout Christian) you will come to the place where the things you struggle with now will not only be defeated in your life but you will not want to do them anymore. Do not accept a compromised gospel that teaches you that your flesh is going to continue in the bondage of sin and will always want to sin the same old sins but it's okay because you're good on the inside with God. That's a horrible compromise with sin that the Bible does not teach. But it is the belief that most Christians, it seems, have adopted.

I used to be a rage-aloholic. Anger and rage were my tools of choice to scare and bully people into submission in order to keep my life safe and carefree, and to keep me 'right' about things (for fear of the truth). But I've grown in Christ, and now not only do I not use those tools of the flesh to get my way I don't want to use those things anymore. I've been taught by God to trust Him for what I was trying to gain for myself by bullying mean and inconsiderate and hurtful people into compliance with my anger and rage.

The scripture that acted like the piercing sword in heart, separating me from my sin by destroying it in me, was this:

"1What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? 2You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. " (James 4:1 NASB)​

The word that acts like a double edged, piercing sword separates us from our disobedience. The word is not a sword that separates our sin from our spirit so as to make it that we can accept sin in our bodily members while we relish the righteousness of Christ we have on the inside and so all is good with God. If we try to justify and rationalize bondage to sin by assuring us it's only in our body not in our spirit because of Christ's righteousness we will in fact not be good with God at all. We will be assigned a place with the hypocrites at Christ's return where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth:

"...for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.45“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48“But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:44-51 NASB)​

Now for your second paragraph. I don't have any besetting outward sins that I know of. Not saying there aren't some I don't know about, just that He hasn't led me to see them.

All of my sins of unbelief that He gives me to see are inward. Like...I've never murdered a man with a gun or a knife, but in spirit I have. I have often been angry against someone without cause. The reason it is without cause is that I myself have done the thing I am angry at THEM for doing. This is why He brings me to a place to forgive them instead of using unequal weights between me and them.

 

[posthuman]

It's a shame some don't think it necessary to be "worthy of the Lord".

the shame is if we think we somehow are or even can be "worthy" of Him!!
how low a view of His holiness that requires??

the acceptable sacrifice is a contrite heart, not a vain one!
i pray to be counted worthy to stand before Him according to His mercy, knowing it cannot be by my accomplishment in any way

 

[posthuman]

Do sinners "humble themselves before Jesus"?

do people who judge their own obedience and by it consider themselves worthy?

Luke 18:14 -- one man went home justified, and the other did not.

 

[posthuman]

I wonder if the fact that he was vexed in his soul daily caused him to regret choosing the portion of land that he did? Repentance?

well he wasn't in any hurry to leave!

even after hearing the message of the Lord's servants, and seeing their power - hesitating, he had to be taken by the hand of an angel and forcibly removed. and even then he refused the angels command to flee to the mountains!

his righteousness - was it by obedient works!?
what made Lot worthy? Lot's steadfast obedience and immediate response to the word that came to him from heaven? ha! Abraham's intercession for him, more likely - foreshadowing Christ! -- and so "the mercy of the LORD was on him" Gen. 19:16

you don't receive mercy unless you deserve something worse!

 

[TruthTalk]

do people who judge their own obedience and by it consider themselves worthy?

Luke 18:14 -- one man went home justified, and the other did not.

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John3:30

Hi Posthuman, there is one poster here who responded to one of my post saying;

Original Poster: PJW
The "humility" is manifested by our submission to God.
Where is the "humility" of those who serve the "flesh"?​

...................................................................................................................................
Quote: My Post #41433

Its called "Vainglory" It means the man gets all the glory, "where's the humility." Sinless perfectionism is a false gospel = a false christ. But what does that matter anyway right.

"But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble." James4:6​

 

[BillG]

Don't be deceived by this popular but erroneous thinking in the church today. So many are teaching and believing that sin is okay because that's your flesh while your spirit is good with God.

If you continue in Christ, and I think you will (you strike me as being a devout Christian) you will come to the place where the things you struggle with now will not only be defeated in your life but you will not want to do them anymore. Do not accept a compromised gospel that teaches you that your flesh is going to continue in the bondage of sin and will always want to sin the same old sins but it's okay because you're good on the inside with God. That's a horrible compromise with sin that the Bible does not teach. But it is the belief that most Christians, it seems, have adopted.

I used to be a rage-aloholic. Anger and rage were my tools of choice to scare and bully people into submission in order to keep my life safe and carefree, and to keep me 'right' about things (for fear of the truth). But I've grown in Christ, and now not only do I not use those tools of the flesh to get my way I don't want to use those things anymore. I've been taught by God to trust Him for what I was trying to gain for myself by bullying mean and inconsiderate and hurtful people into compliance with my anger and rage.

The scripture that acted like the piercing sword in heart, separating me from my sin by destroying it in me, was this:

"1What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? 2You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. " (James 4:1 NASB)​

The word that acts like a double edged, piercing sword separates us from our disobedience. The word is not a sword that separates our sin from our spirit so as to make it that we can accept sin in our bodily members while we relish the righteousness of Christ we have on the inside and so all is good with God. If we try to justify and rationalize bondage to sin by assuring us it's only in our body not in our spirit because of Christ's righteousness we will in fact not be good with God at all. We will be assigned a place with the hypocrites at Christ's return where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth:

"...for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.45“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48“But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:44-51 NASB)​

I will never get this sin residing in the flesh and whether it’s me sinning or not.

My own mind tells me if I am sinning I am sinning and it’s coming from somewhere.

In my severe gambling days I couldn’t help myself.
At times I would find myself gambling and had no recollection of getting up from my desk or leaving the house and going the gambling place.

I did everything I could think of to stop.

I even got some oil. Went to the gambling place when it was closed and sprinkled oil on the doors and prayed for angels to guard that door and stop me going in.

I hated what I was doing but didn’t understand why and no amount of prayer and willpower could help me.
Even claiming in the name of Jesus did not help.

Where on earth was this coming from?

If in Jesus I have new nature then why do I sin?

Galatians 5:16-17
The Spirit’s Power
16 So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17 The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. NLT

Then we read

Galatians 5:16-17
Walking in the Spirit
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. NKJV

Its confusing one says nature the other says flesh.

The Greek used here is

g4561. σάρξ sarx; probably from the base of 4563; flesh

So to me I really struggled with

If I am in Jesus and have a new nature why do I sin and struggle with habitual sin.
Then if it purely resides in my flesh then it is me still sinning and if it’s me still sinning then I don’t have this new nature, I am not a new creation.

I lost my head up my arse.

Then one day after 30 years of this struggle.
Waking up with guilt every night at the same time asking God to kill me cause I couldn’t kill me myself even though I devised plans to do so.

I woke up and thought well I have woken up there must be a reason.
Even thinking that I also thought I’m gonna gamble today.

I said to God what’s the purpose of today if I’m gonna gamble and go to bed tonight in torture?

Then he said to me “This is the purpose, the issue is not that you gamble the issue is why you gamble. You have wasted your years trying to appease me, be good, earn my love. Truth is Bill you have no idea what love is about. I know your past I know your upbringing, you never knew your dad, your mother threw you out at a young age, you suffer beatings, you were fostered and your foster dad sexually abused you. You do anything you can to be liked and loved and accepted but you can’t do it.
Truth is you can’t accept being loved for whom you are. You have so much pain and hurt and rejection and every time you pray to me you only focus on trying to earn my love”

Then he said to me “Do you want to know what I think about you, are you willing to let me heal you of the past to give you a future, trust me.

I did and it was a painful process and God healed me.

Not gambled since.

I think what I am trying to say is that a genuine believer will not make an excuse for sin, including habitual sin.
To me a genuine believer cannot believe all is well if they struggle with sin.

If however they do especially with the problem I had there is a reason for the cause.
The reason needs to be dealt with, when it is cause will be dealt with.

sorry if I have digressed.

 

[loveme1]

Would you not have us share the TRUTH with them?

Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, andfew find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
{The GOOD FRUIT is Listed starting in GAL. 5:22, and works are not FRUIT.}
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many{Would you not have us warn them?} will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’ {THAT is a reference to the inner personal LOVE relationaship that is ESTABLISHED when you BELIEVE TO THE POINT OF COMPLETELY TRUSTING HIM FOR YOUR TOTAL AND COMPLETE SALVATION, with the Holy Spirit pouring GOD's LOVE into your heart (Rom 5:5). It is that LOVE that enables us SHOW our LOVE for HIM by lovingly surrendering to Jesus, chosing to OBEY HIM as an act of LOVE, because HE SAVED US, PAST TENSE.}
IF a Church goer has NO inner personal LOVE relationship with JESUS to THAT DEGREE, it means they are Pretend Christians on the Wide Road to the Destruction of HELL. AND YOU WOULD HAVE US NOT WARN THEM? Easy Believism's watered down LOVE ONLY False GOSPEL, and the "I have to WORK to earn part of my Salvation and work to Keep my Salvation", are like TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN, a FALSE GOSPEL that lead's MANY onto the BROAD ROAD going towards the Destruction of HELL.

The only pure motive for all acts of obedience, is if it is ONLY a way for you to show LOVE for HIM, because HE SAVED YOU PERMANENTLY THE VERY MOMENT YOU FIRST GENUINELY BELIEVED establishing that permanent inner personal LOVE RELATIONSHIP with JESUS.



John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands. {SEE IT? Obedience NEVER WAS a way to justify yourself before God; it only was a way to show your LOVE for GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ.}



Galatians 5:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.


And you apparently think it is WRONG to Warn them. Where I come from, that is PART OF THE PROBLEM, and NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION.

What if you were the one who needed warning?

 

[loveme1]

Galatians 5

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.





If you believe a person falls from Grace because they are obedient to GOD’s Commandments and not because they are being hindered to be circumcised rather than obey the Truth then time to build your house upon on a Rock...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Just a reminder we are sealed...\o/...

 

[TruthTalk]

The False Doctrine of Perfectionism


The problem of balance in this doctrinal area. 1 John 1:8-10

1. First Form of Perfectionism: Claiming to have no tendency to sin.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." John 1:8

The Language

(1) In the Greek, this is what is called a Subjunctive sentence, a third class condition—it is an,
“if, then” statement.

(2) “If we up and say…”, this is the Greek aorist tense—if we have up and said at any time...

(3) “that we do not have sin” (present tense).

(4) What he is saying is: “If we up and say that we live continually in such a way that we have, 'no principle of sin in us.”

(5) Then...'We are leading ourselves astray', and The Truth is not in us

Extreme views in this area historically

(Gnostics—the first cult

(1) Some denied that believers had any principle if sin, therefore, no matter what they did, it could not be considered sin—they actually used this kind of perfectionism as an excuse to sin!

(2) Others taught that a spiritual believer had no sin in their life, so they could live to perfection

(3) Other perfectionists since then have taught that by an act of sanctifying grace, the tendency to sin can be taken away from us in this life.

(4) All of these views are heresy—they are out of balance.

The balanced Biblical view is, when we become Christians;

(1) We receive a new nature
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Cor 5:17

(2) The born again Christian 'will not practice sin as a style of life.'
1 John 2:29 "If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him."

But to say that we have no sin, that we are beyond sin, is a heresy

If a person believes in this kind of perfectionism, this is self deception; this amounts to NO TRUTH

................................................................................................................................

The Second form of perfectionism: Claiming to be sinless in practice;
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." 1John 1:10

Language

(1) “If”—again, a third class condition sentence
(2) We say—aorist—if we at any time have said
(3) We have not sinned—perfect tense—have not sinned throughout the past.
(4) “...we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us....” This is all in the present tense—if we say that we have not been sinners in practice, we are continually making Him a liar and His word is continually not in us.

Perfectionists say that a second work of Grace can “fully sanctify” a person so that they are totally above sin, and they will claim that they live above sin. This is a false doctrine.

Conclusion:
(1) Sinless perfection is our goal​, but we will never reach that level of holiness in this life
(2) To claim perfection in our lives makes God a liar! Rom 3:9-12, 23, Eph 2:1-3

Application:
The Remedy for both heresies is; "the balanced Christian life"
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

Our confession is continual; the point is that we are cleansed once from the guilt of sin, then we are cleansed continually from the pollution of sin in our lives, and one day we will be cleansed from the very presence of sin.

When we confess that He is our Savior, we are confessing that we need a Savior, that we are sinners. And this is in the present tense! Our confession is perpetual and constant; we always say to our Father, “God be merciful to me a sinner.”

"He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins...”

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I will never get this sin residing in the flesh and whether it’s me sinning or not.

My own mind tells me if I am sinning I am sinning and it’s coming from somewhere.

In my severe gambling days I couldn’t help myself.
At times I would find myself gambling and had no recollection of getting up from my desk or leaving the house and going the gambling place.

I did everything I could think of to stop.

I even got some oil. Went to the gambling place when it was closed and sprinkled oil on the doors and prayed for angels to guard that door and stop me going in.

I hated what I was doing but didn’t understand why and no amount of prayer and willpower could help me.
Even claiming in the name of Jesus did not help.

Where on earth was this coming from?

If in Jesus I have new nature then why do I sin?

Galatians 5:16-17
The Spirit’s Power
16 So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17 The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. NLT

Then we read

Galatians 5:16-17
Walking in the Spirit
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. NKJV

Its confusing one says nature the other says flesh.

The Greek used here is

g4561. σάρξ sarx; probably from the base of 4563; flesh

So to me I really struggled with

If I am in Jesus and have a new nature why do I sin and struggle with habitual sin.
Then if it purely resides in my flesh then it is me still sinning and if it’s me still sinning then I don’t have this new nature, I am not a new creation.

I lost my head up my arse.

Then one day after 30 years of this struggle.
Waking up with guilt every night at the same time asking God to kill me cause I couldn’t kill me myself even though I devised plans to do so.

I woke up and thought well I have woken up there must be a reason.
Even thinking that I also thought I’m gonna gamble today.

I said to God what’s the purpose of today if I’m gonna gamble and go to bed tonight in torture?

Then he said to me “This is the purpose, the issue is not that you gamble the issue is why you gamble. You have wasted your years trying to appease me, be good, earn my love. Truth is Bill you have no idea what love is about. I know your past I know your upbringing, you never knew your dad, your mother threw you out at a young age, you suffer beatings, you were fostered and your foster dad sexually abused you. You do anything you can to be liked and loved and accepted but you can’t do it.
Truth is you can’t accept being loved for whom you are. You have so much pain and hurt and rejection and every time you pray to me you only focus on trying to earn my love”

Then he said to me “Do you want to know what I think about you, are you willing to let me heal you of the past to give you a future, trust me.

I did and it was a painful process and God healed me.

Not gambled since.

I think what I am trying to say is that a genuine believer will not make an excuse for sin, including habitual sin.
To me a genuine believer cannot believe all is well if they struggle with sin.

If however they do especially with the problem I had there is a reason for the cause.
The reason needs to be dealt with, when it is cause will be dealt with.

sorry if I have digressed.

Ah, thanks for sharing that.
So you prayed and prayed to stop but He did not stop it - your gambling.
So you were asking with the wrong motive? You were asking to be made good so you could then get His love. But He already loved you and forgave you.

Does that sound right?

 

[loveme1]

Ephesians 4

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Ephesians 4King James Version (KJV)

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.







[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[BillG]

Ah, thanks for sharing that.
So you prayed and prayed to stop but He did not stop it - your gambling.
So you were asking with the wrong motive? You were asking to be made good so you could then get His love. But He already loved you and forgave you.

Does that sound right?

exactly, because he knew I hated it and didn’t want it.
Truth is I wanted his love and wanted to be like him.

However If I didn’t know his love how could I be like him.

The sexual abuser I talked about.
He was part of the cause.
On his death bed I was with him.
When he died I sorted out his estate at my expense.

Because I was healed then I was able to be Jesus to him.