Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)
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Speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:7). When a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking a language of men or of angels (1 Cor 13:1). It may be a language that is currently in use somewhere on earth, or it could be a "dead" language formerly used on earth, or it could be a language of angels. When a person speaks in tongues, he does not understand the language he is speaking (1 Cor 14:2, 14).
U
There is no problem in my understanding,Paul is not speaking about unintelligible speech, there is only speaking in a language (glossa) if Paul was speaking about ecstatic speech he would not have used the word "glossa"
I cannot even begin to understand how you can deny this basic teaching of scripture.
Since this word means language, language by definition is intelligible, it has meaning
[FONT="]There is no example in the New Testament of the use of tongues for any other purpose than to preach the Gospel and proclaim that Jesus was the Christ, the Redeemer. It was a valid sign gift given to the beleiver to validate that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. It was used of the Holy Spirit to present the Gospel to foreign speaking Jews. When then Jews saw the supernatural gift being practice it was a testimony that Jesus was the Christ and that they, the one’s practicing the gift were of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
I cannot even begin to understand how you can deny this basic teaching of scripture.
Since this word means language, language by definition is intelligible, it has meaning
[FONT="]There is no example in the New Testament of the use of tongues for any other purpose than to preach the Gospel and proclaim that Jesus was the Christ, the Redeemer. It was a valid sign gift given to the beleiver to validate that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. It was used of the Holy Spirit to present the Gospel to foreign speaking Jews. When then Jews saw the supernatural gift being practice it was a testimony that Jesus was the Christ and that they, the one’s practicing the gift were of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
U
There is no need to speak in a dead language, I believe God is a God of purpose and meaning.
This has been thoroughly researched, that glossolalia is a not language, and is disputed much like saying the earth is flat and that math is of the carnal mind.
The language of angels is superlative statement, it is not the gift witnessed at Pentecost.
As Linguist Dr. William Welmers puts it:
“Among us (Linguists), we have heard many hundreds of languages. Furthermore, we have heard representative languages in virtually every group of related languages in the world. At worst we may have missed a few small groups in the interior of South America or in New Guinea.
I would estimate that the chances are at least even that if a glossolalic utterance were in a known language, one of us would either recognize the language or recognize that it is similar to some language we are acquainted with."
Dr. Welmers further makes this challenge: "Get two recordings, one of a glossolalic utterance and the other in a real language remote from anything I have ever heard. I'm confident that in just a few moments I could tell which is which and why I am sure of it."
- real language is unmistakable, as is glossolalia.
University of California, Los Angeles. Library. Department of Special Collections. Los Angeles, California 90095-1575
This has been thoroughly researched, that glossolalia is a not language, and is disputed much like saying the earth is flat and that math is of the carnal mind.
The language of angels is superlative statement, it is not the gift witnessed at Pentecost.
As Linguist Dr. William Welmers puts it:
“Among us (Linguists), we have heard many hundreds of languages. Furthermore, we have heard representative languages in virtually every group of related languages in the world. At worst we may have missed a few small groups in the interior of South America or in New Guinea.
I would estimate that the chances are at least even that if a glossolalic utterance were in a known language, one of us would either recognize the language or recognize that it is similar to some language we are acquainted with."
Dr. Welmers further makes this challenge: "Get two recordings, one of a glossolalic utterance and the other in a real language remote from anything I have ever heard. I'm confident that in just a few moments I could tell which is which and why I am sure of it."
- real language is unmistakable, as is glossolalia.
University of California, Los Angeles. Library. Department of Special Collections. Los Angeles, California 90095-1575
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Paul is talking about the manifestation of speaking in tongues (languages, if you prefer).
I have no idea what "ecstatic speech" is.
Paul is teaching about the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
Not if you don't understand it. If I spoke French to you, it would be unintelligible and have no meaning to you (assuming you don't know French).
There are examples in the New Testament where people speaking in tongues were speaking the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11) and magnifying God (Acts 10:46). And in the New Testament, Paul says that when a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2), and giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).
The manifestation of speaking in tongues is never used as a preaching tool, it is never used for missionary work.
It is a manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
That is not true. While tongues can be a sign to unbelievers, it is never a teaching tool.
When the Jews heard the apostles speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost, they were confounded. They did not understand how the unlearned Galileans could be speaking in other languages. The apostles did not understand what they were saying, but the languages they were speaking as given to them by the Holy Spirit were understood by others present. That almost never happens, which is why Paul, by revelation, directs us that when tongues is spoken in public, it must always be interpreted.
I have no idea what "ecstatic speech" is.
Paul is teaching about the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
Not if you don't understand it. If I spoke French to you, it would be unintelligible and have no meaning to you (assuming you don't know French).
There are examples in the New Testament where people speaking in tongues were speaking the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11) and magnifying God (Acts 10:46). And in the New Testament, Paul says that when a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2), and giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).
The manifestation of speaking in tongues is never used as a preaching tool, it is never used for missionary work.
It is a manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
That is not true. While tongues can be a sign to unbelievers, it is never a teaching tool.
When the Jews heard the apostles speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost, they were confounded. They did not understand how the unlearned Galileans could be speaking in other languages. The apostles did not understand what they were saying, but the languages they were speaking as given to them by the Holy Spirit were understood by others present. That almost never happens, which is why Paul, by revelation, directs us that when tongues is spoken in public, it must always be interpreted.
Really, to discuss the gifts with anyone who has not experienced Holy Spirit moving through their own being is going to be fruitless.
UG
I know you said your son is either a linguist, or connected to this some way, have forgotten, but has he experienced tongues for himself?
The scriptures do say the spiritual is not understood by the natural.
Its not similar at all to discussing doctrine other than, do you believe it is for today, and is it valid?
Until these two issues are overcome, the gifts themselves are just a mystery.
UG
I know you said your son is either a linguist, or connected to this some way, have forgotten, but has he experienced tongues for himself?
The scriptures do say the spiritual is not understood by the natural.
Its not similar at all to discussing doctrine other than, do you believe it is for today, and is it valid?
Until these two issues are overcome, the gifts themselves are just a mystery.
The purpose and meaning of speaking in tongues is for the Christian to speak to God divine secrets (1 Cor 14:2), to speak the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11), to magnify God (Acts 10:46), to edify himself (1 Cor 14:4), to give thanks well (1 Cor 14:17).
Speaking in tongues is a language.
It is precisely the manifestation witnessed at Pentecost.
I believe the Bible.
Speaking in tongues is a language.
It is precisely the manifestation witnessed at Pentecost.
I believe the Bible.
Hey Shrume. 
I just wanted to take the time to show you some verses (just two) that show the Lord can speak through tongues, so it isn't just for self-edification purposes (or giving thanks well and others to "amen" them).
[h=1]1 Corinthians 14:21 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Isaiah 28:11 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
In both verses we can see that the Lord will "speak to this people." So tongues can also be used by the Lord to speak to people, individually, or even on a congregational level. To address a Church, for example. To minister to His children, as we pray in tongues and another interprets.
What this means is that we can minister to people by praying in tongues for them and then with interpretation (either by oneself or another who interprets) we then relay the message to them from the Lord.
I've done this with an interpreter on multiple occasions and its always fascinating (especially when you're first starting out), because you're like, "Was that accurate!?" haha You wish for them to verify what you just said, especially when you start speaking about their daughter that you have no clue exists.
In essence, tongues then is also a tool of ministry just like prophecy to uplift, encourage, and exhort (so long as it is interpreted). [/FONT]
I just wanted to take the time to show you some verses (just two) that show the Lord can speak through tongues, so it isn't just for self-edification purposes (or giving thanks well and others to "amen" them). [h=1]1 Corinthians 14:21 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Isaiah 28:11 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
In both verses we can see that the Lord will "speak to this people." So tongues can also be used by the Lord to speak to people, individually, or even on a congregational level. To address a Church, for example. To minister to His children, as we pray in tongues and another interprets.
What this means is that we can minister to people by praying in tongues for them and then with interpretation (either by oneself or another who interprets) we then relay the message to them from the Lord.
I've done this with an interpreter on multiple occasions and its always fascinating (especially when you're first starting out), because you're like, "Was that accurate!?" haha You wish for them to verify what you just said, especially when you start speaking about their daughter that you have no clue exists.
In essence, tongues then is also a tool of ministry just like prophecy to uplift, encourage, and exhort (so long as it is interpreted). [/FONT]
U
Hi,
I believe it is for today, as a sign for unbelievers as the scripture teaches, when God chooses to work that way.
To say it is supernatural and beyond science, could be a valid argument if ecstatic speech/unintelligible language was supported by scripture but it is not.
If math and science prove that the earth is not flat, then I need to reconsider my understanding of the scriptures that seem to infer this, because it is us then lacks understanding of God's word
My son does is studying neuro lingustics at the graduate level and he is only connected by our shared knowledge and he does not speak in languages other than his own when he speaks about the truth of the Gospel.
The word glossa means a real language, I cannot stress this enough.
I believe it is for today, as a sign for unbelievers as the scripture teaches, when God chooses to work that way.
To say it is supernatural and beyond science, could be a valid argument if ecstatic speech/unintelligible language was supported by scripture but it is not.
If math and science prove that the earth is not flat, then I need to reconsider my understanding of the scriptures that seem to infer this, because it is us then lacks understanding of God's word
My son does is studying neuro lingustics at the graduate level and he is only connected by our shared knowledge and he does not speak in languages other than his own when he speaks about the truth of the Gospel.
The word glossa means a real language, I cannot stress this enough.
U
Please tell me these divine secrets, the Gospel is not meant to be a secret, this completely contradicts scripture.
Divine secrets reminds of freemasonry, Scientology and other mystery religions, where things are hidden and revealed to only a special few as they move through a progressive revelation.
Again this is not biblical, but I think you know that.
Divine secrets reminds of freemasonry, Scientology and other mystery religions, where things are hidden and revealed to only a special few as they move through a progressive revelation.
Again this is not biblical, but I think you know that.
U
An earthly language hmmm .... I think you be better off saying an angelic language.... since what is the point of an earthly language when one already possesses an earthly language that is already very usable when speaking to God
And no ecstatic utterances have been shown to be earthly languages, not once...it must be very, very, very hidden in the remote regions of South America, and of course one needs to use this language because it is a divine secret or mystery spoken only between you and God.
Okay all joking aside, I really think God is fine with my English prayers and I am very spiritually moved even though I speak in English, I guess the Holy Spirit is okay with that.
And no ecstatic utterances have been shown to be earthly languages, not once...it must be very, very, very hidden in the remote regions of South America, and of course one needs to use this language because it is a divine secret or mystery spoken only between you and God.
Okay all joking aside, I really think God is fine with my English prayers and I am very spiritually moved even though I speak in English, I guess the Holy Spirit is okay with that.
According to scripture, a real language we do not understand. I cannot stress this enough, lol.
Hey Shrume. I just wanted to take the time to show you some verses (just two) that show the Lord can speak through tongues, so it isn't just for self-edification purposes (or giving thanks well and others to "amen" them).
[h=1]1 Corinthians 14:21 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]21 [/B][/FONT]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips [B]will I speak unto this people[/B]; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[h=1]Isaiah 28:11 King James Version (KJV)[/h][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
In both verses we can see that the Lord will "speak to this people." So tongues can also be used by the Lord to speak to people, individually, or even on a congregational level. To address a Church, for example. To minister to His children, as we pray in tongues and another interprets.
I just wanted to take the time to show you some verses (just two) that show the Lord can speak through tongues, so it isn't just for self-edification purposes (or giving thanks well and others to "amen" them). [h=1]1 Corinthians 14:21 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]21 [/B][/FONT]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips [B]will I speak unto this people[/B]; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[h=1]Isaiah 28:11 King James Version (KJV)[/h][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
In both verses we can see that the Lord will "speak to this people." So tongues can also be used by the Lord to speak to people, individually, or even on a congregational level. To address a Church, for example. To minister to His children, as we pray in tongues and another interprets.
1 Cor 14:2 clearly states that when a person speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God:
1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
28) But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
In 1 Cor 14:21, Paul is quoting Isa 28:11, so the two verses are really one. Isa 28:11 is not a prophesy of speaking in tongues. It is talking about that because of Israel's disobedience, they would be conquered by the Assyrians, who would speak to the Israelites in the Assyrian language, which the Israelites did not understand.
Paul references Isa 28:11 because just as being conquered by the Assyrians should have been a sign to Israel that they had been disobedient, speaking in tongues should be a sign to people who do not believe. The point is that both are signs, not that Isaiah was prophesying about speaking in tongues.
Also, when a person speaks in tongues, that person is to be the one to interpret:
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.
It is my understanding that you're mixing tongues with prophesy. Someone is speaking in tongues (which is always TO God), and another is providing an "interpretation" which is actually a word of prophesy. It is through the manifestation of prophesy that:
25) And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."
While both tongues with interpretation and prophesy edify the church, I believe they do so in slightly different ways. Prophesy will be words FROM God (1st person) or speaking FOR God (3rd person) to the body of believers present (or to an individual), while tongues is words of praise and thanks TO God, and the interpretation will reflect that.
But despite our differences, I'm thrilled that you and your church are practicing the manifestations!
I have no idea how you can say it completely contradicts scripture.
1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries [secrets].
Of course it's biblical.
Your SAYING that something contradicts scripture is not the same as something actually contradicting scripture.
1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries [secrets].
Divine secrets reminds of freemasonry, Scientology and other mystery religions, where things are hidden and revealed to only a special few as they move through a progressive revelation.
Again this is not biblical, but I think you know that.
Again this is not biblical, but I think you know that.
Your SAYING that something contradicts scripture is not the same as something actually contradicting scripture.
Okay all joking aside, I really think God is fine with my English prayers and I am very spiritually moved even though I speak in English, I guess the Holy Spirit is okay with that.
Christians certainly do not have to speak in tongues, but it is my belief that we should want to take advantage of everything God has made available to us, and in fact wants us to do (1 Cor 14:5). We are to emulate Paul (1 Cor 4:16; 11:1), who spoke in tongues more than the entire Corinthian church (1 Cor 14:18).
Oh, just one little note. The tongue speaker isn't always the one to interpret their own tongues. While it is possible it isn't always the case, as there are others that are granted an interpretation.
1 Corinthians 14:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
Three different people are speaking in tongues and yet one interprets. This means that not every single person is interpreting their own tongue. We have other verses as well to verify that others interpret your tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:10King James Version (KJV)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
See above that "to another divers kinds of tongues" and then "to another the interpretation of tongues." There can be no interpretation of tongues by another unless someone else is speaking in tongues (tongues need to have been spoken by someone in order for another to interpret).
So it works both ways. A tongue speaker can interpret his/her own tongues but often someone else, an interpreter, will interpret what the tongue speaker has spoken.
1 Corinthians 14:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
Three different people are speaking in tongues and yet one interprets. This means that not every single person is interpreting their own tongue. We have other verses as well to verify that others interpret your tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:10King James Version (KJV)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
See above that "to another divers kinds of tongues" and then "to another the interpretation of tongues." There can be no interpretation of tongues by another unless someone else is speaking in tongues (tongues need to have been spoken by someone in order for another to interpret).
So it works both ways. A tongue speaker can interpret his/her own tongues but often someone else, an interpreter, will interpret what the tongue speaker has spoken.