anyone else studying the four creatures ?

[followjesus]

does anyone know any prophecies or really any scripture that would Help with these ? or have any ideas about this subject? someone a long time ago suggested the four gospels are tied into the four creatures and wheels. which would make sense because Jesus said "the spirit was in His words." and the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels" were told the word of od is Living and active, and the "living creatures are active according to the spirit they follow in ch 10. but i cant quite put this together anyone looking at this subject please leave an idea opr additional scripture, fascinating study to me. God bless.


there are so many scriptures app[lying to this i will add them in comments if you arent afraid of alot of scripture please see if you can discern something im missing.

ezekeil 1 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
4And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. 6And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. 7And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. 8And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. 9Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

10As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. 11Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. 12And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went. 13As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. 14And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
15Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four

. 19And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.20Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels."


ezekeil 10 " And it came to pass, that when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels. 7And one cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that was between the cherubims, and took thereof, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it, and went out. 8And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man's hand under their wings.
9And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone. 10And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel. 11When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went. 12And their whole body, and their backs, and their hands, and their wings, and the wheels, were full of eyes round about, even the wheels that they four had.

13As for the wheels, it was cried unto them in my hearing, O wheel. 14And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.15And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar.16And when the cherubims went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubims lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them. 17When they stood, these stood; and when they were lifted up, these lifted up themselves also: for the spirit of the living creature was in them."


of course the four creatures and beasts are mentioned elsewhere I was wondering if others were studying this at all, please let me Know if you have any Ideas.

 

[followjesus]

some More scripture

revelation 4" And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. 8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,"


revelation 6 :And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see......all four bests say it when the first four seals are opened.

there are so many similarities between ezekeils vision of the temple in Heaven and Johns vision in revelation even books Like daniel and zechariah have so much to offer on this subject i just cant put it together

 

[followjesus]

zechariah 6:And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. 2In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; 3And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. 4Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? 5And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. "


then you see further in this more aspects of it....and H0ow the creatures tie to the first four seals and the spirits sent into all the earth which we see in the lamb " seven eyes which are the spirits of God sent ionto all the earth"..


revelation 6 :one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2And I saw, and behold a white horse:...

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4And there went out another horse that was red:... And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.....

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: ."


the Lamb opens the seal, the living creature says come and the horse appears coming from Heaven to earth, the spirits of the Heavens poured into the earth from God. but How do we view the four Living creatures that are an important part of this? what do they represent ?

 

[stillness]

The order of the 4 living creatures is the same order as the 4 gospels: describes the image of God we are created in.
Jesus is the fulfilment: He came as a servant though He is King of kings, and as son of man and Son of God.
Matthew describes Him as King (Face like a lion) and the genealogy traces Him as King.
Mark describes Him as servant (Face like an ox or cherubim, depending on translation, in Ezekiel it's the face of a calf).
{Israel was referred as God's servant, they worshiped the creature more than the creator (the golden calf). The religious leaders desired their own kingdom more than God's Kingdom}
Luke describes Him as the Son of man (Face like a man) and the genealogy is traced to Adam.
John describes Jesus as the Son of God (face like a flying eagle) and is the reason why its different than the first 3, with even more hidden meaning referring to spiritual things.
"They that wait on the Lord shall renew strength, they shall mount up with wings as eagles,"
I'm fascinated by mysteries, "Seek and you shall find." Understanding mysteries does not help to grow in Love and may even hinder. "Knowledge puffs up but Love but Love builds up."
As long as we accept that we don't know as we should, we keep learning. Learning of the Lord is in humility and meekness (tamed by God as friends).

 

[stillness]

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.....

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: ."


the Lamb opens the seal, the living creature says come and the horse appears coming from Heaven to earth, the spirits of the Heavens poured into the earth from God. but How do we view the four Living creatures that are an important part of this? what do they represent

During the second world war, before Corrie Ten Boom was sent to prison camp for rescuing Jews, she saw a black horse in a dream: The recession of the thirties leading up to the war describe the famine brought by this horse.

I'm convinced that Daniel 8:23 describes the second world war. And the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away 2,300 days (closely corresponding to the length of the war), refers to the length of time Christians were at war with one another, and the beginning of the restoration of the daily sacrifice (sacrifice of praise) was in 1944 Christmas eve, when Americans and Germans sang to the Lord together on the front lines. There is more to this event, including a woman who received American soldiers who were lost in the mountains and then Germans soldiers, these ate together while she prayed for the end of the war. Christmas day the Germans gave them direction to leave Germany.

We are on the verge of the time of trouble such as never was: In my lifetime. I think, referred as the pale horse, and described in Daniel 12.

 

[followjesus]

During the second world war, before Corrie Ten Boom was sent to prison camp for rescuing Jews, she saw a black horse in a dream: The recession of the thirties leading up to the war describe the famine brought by this horse.

I'm convinced that Daniel 8:23 describes the second world war. And the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away 2,300 days (closely corresponding to the length of the war), refers to the length of time Christians were at war with one another, and the beginning of the restoration of the daily sacrifice (sacrifice of praise) was in 1944 Christmas eve, when Americans and Germans sang to the Lord together on the front lines. There is more to this event, including a woman who received American soldiers who were lost in the mountains and then Germans soldiers, these ate together while she prayed for the end of the war. Christmas day the Germans gave them direction to leave Germany.

We are on the verge of the time of trouble such as never was: In my lifetime. I think, referred as the pale horse, and described in Daniel 12.

concerning the daily sacrifice have you ever studied the mcabbees books? if you look into "antiochos epiphanes" , you will find that he removed the worship of the jews, the daily sacrifice and many of thier ways of worhip were outlawed during the 400 years between malachi and matthew.

 

[birdie]

does anyone know any prophecies or really any scripture that would Help with these ? or have any ideas about this subject? someone a long time ago suggested the four gospels are tied into the four creatures and wheels. which would make sense because Jesus said "the spirit was in His words." and the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels" were told the word of od is Living and active, and the "living creatures are active according to the spirit they follow in ch 10. but i cant quite put this together anyone looking at this subject please leave an idea opr additional scripture, fascinating study to me. God bless.

The idea that the 4 gospels are pictured by the four types of creatures is pretty good, I think. After all, Jesus is the word. If you look at the position of the 4 creatures in Rev 6: "and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts " you find that 'in the midst' is used. This is a description of Jesus' position in relation to true believers throughout the Bible. He is frequently 'in the midst'. However, the verse elaborates that the 4 creatures are round about the throne as well as being in the midst. This could easily be the position of the true believers, round about. Yet Rev 5 elaborates more: "in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb". The throne is, in my opinion, a description of wherever God is 'on the throne', so to speak, in a person's heart. Jesus (Lamb) is in the midst of it in those cases. Further, the four beasts are there in those cases, meaning the word of God (gospel), most likely. Jesus is in the midst of the gospel. Further, Jesus is in the midst of the true believers, who are pictured by the 24 elders. The 24 elders are probably a parable metaphor for all true believers who have God on the throne in their hearts.

Further, you may notice that the 4 living creatures like to say "Come and see" in Rev 6. But it is Jesus who says "Come and see" in John 1:39. Further, Philip in John 1:46 says, "Come and see". If the 4 living creatures are similar, then they would be part of both Jesus and the true believers, and the word of God could describe this, the word of God being one definition of the 4 living creatures. At some point, you probably could say that if the word dwells in the true believers then they are one with Christ, and differentiation between the entities is not a thing present so much.

 

[stillness]

concerning the daily sacrifice have you ever studied the Maccabees books? if you look into "Antiochus epiphanies" , you will find that he removed the worship of the Jews, the daily sacrifice and many of their ways of worship were outlawed during the 400 years between Malachi and Mathew.

Read once long time ago, but the visions in Daniel of the daily sacrifice taken away refer to the time of the end. The next time in Daniel 12:11 the third world war, the time of trouble such as never was, the final battle, mentioned in Matthew 24:10 "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another," the falling away before the end. According to the budding of the fig tree In 1948 this generation shall not pass until all these thing be fulfilled ("A generation is 70 years and if it be 80 by reason of strength, it is but labour and sorrow." the final battle also referred as Jacob's trouble). 2018 would be the beginning of the time of trouble, 2028 is 80 years. Not claiming to know what I'm talking about. Many had visions and dreams of the time of trouble upon us. 34 years ago the Lord told me: Behold I am with you in a time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again. We are approaching the end of the second day of rebuilding of His temple, the third day is the first resurrection, When He shall rule for a thousand years with those who followed Him in His sufferings and death and Resurrection. "After two days He will revive us up and the third day we shall live in His sight." Hosea 6:2. Luke 13:32 refers to Jesus having begun the rebuilding of His temple when He began His ministry at 30 years of age, + 2000 = 2030. Again not claiming to know what am taking about but no other view satisfies. Jesus fulfilled the rebuilding of His temple as the head of the Church in His own body. "Now we are the body of Christ," approaching the end.

 

[Bladerunner]

does anyone know any prophecies or really any scripture that would Help with these ? or have any ideas about this subject? someone a long time ago suggested the four gospels are tied into the four creatures and wheels. which would make sense because Jesus said "the spirit was in His words." and the spirit of the living creatures is in the wheels" were told the word of od is Living and active, and the "living creatures are active according to the spirit they follow in ch 10. but i cant quite put this together anyone looking at this subject please leave an idea opr additional scripture, fascinating study to me. God bless.


there are so many scriptures app[lying to this i will add them in comments if you arent afraid of alot of scripture please see if you can discern something im missing.

ezekeil 1 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
4And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. 6And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. 7And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. 8And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. 9Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

10As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. 11Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. 12And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went. 13As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. 14And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
15Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four

. 19And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.20Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels."


ezekeil 10 " And it came to pass, that when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels. 7And one cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that was between the cherubims, and took thereof, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it, and went out. 8And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man's hand under their wings.
9And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone. 10And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel. 11When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went. 12And their whole body, and their backs, and their hands, and their wings, and the wheels, were full of eyes round about, even the wheels that they four had.

13As for the wheels, it was cried unto them in my hearing, O wheel. 14And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.15And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar.16And when the cherubims went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubims lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them. 17When they stood, these stood; and when they were lifted up, these lifted up themselves also: for the spirit of the living creature was in them."


of course the four creatures and beasts are mentioned elsewhere I was wondering if others were studying this at all, please let me Know if you have any Ideas.

Some Scholars say they are a type of Cherbum angels and other scholars have the opinion that they are a different type of Angel on the level of Cherbums. Satan was a Cherbum angel at one time. All through the Bible we find that there are many different types of Angels and everyone has a part to play. They are not really beast, that is a misnomer unfortunate as it is.

 

[stillness]

Burdie I like what you said and would hope you find me in agreement in what I share. The image of God that we are create in revealed in the 4 living creatures, also represents character traits we are familiar with. The natural leader personality the Lion, the Ox is the servant and richest personality trait, both introverted and extroverted, reacing out to God and man, also the most vulnerable to idolatry, (The golden calf) the face of man is the friend of man, the most animated trait and most shallow, bear with my description, not my words actually. The Son of God is the most introverted personality trait, the most high, represented like a flying eagle.

Had a dream when I was 23, Was walking through a field and realised I was being shot at by an enemy and feared for my Life and fled. Was then watching a vision in the dream, the dark evil spirit that was shooting at me, chasing a big ox and trying to put a yoke on its back to make it work for him, but the yoke was too small and would not fit. The enemy was enraged and kept trying to slam the yoke on its back. I woke up thinking this is not of God He would not show me something so cruel, I have to forget this. Then the interpretation came, I was the big ox: because I feared for my life, was giving room for the enemy to bring me in bondage, but had grown by God's word and the former bondage would not fit. I am a servant at heart, my second strongest trait is the more introverted, as an eagle. The 2 strong traits we have define us, there ends up being 12 combinations of 2 strong traits, 12 happens to represent government and we need to get along. lol

 

[birdie]

Burdie I like what you said and would hope you find me in agreement in what I share. The image of God that we are create in revealed in the 4 living creatures, also represents character traits we are familiar with. The natural leader personality the Lion, the Ox is the servant and richest personality trait, both introverted and extroverted, reacing out to God and man, also the most vulnerable to idolatry, (The golden calf) the face of man is the friend of man, the most animated trait and most shallow, bear with my description, not my words actually. The Son of God is the most introverted personality trait, the most high, represented like a flying eagle.

Had a dream when I was 23, Was walking through a field and realised I was being shot at by an enemy and feared for my Life and fled. Was then watching a vision in the dream, the dark evil spirit that was shooting at me, chasing a big ox and trying to put a yoke on its back to make it work for him, but the yoke was too small and would not fit. The enemy was enraged and kept trying to slam the yoke on its back. I woke up thinking this is not of God He would not show me something so cruel, I have to forget this. Then the interpretation came, I was the big ox: because I feared for my life, was giving room for the enemy to bring me in bondage, but had grown by God's word and the former bondage would not fit. I am a servant at heart, my second strongest trait is the more introverted, as an eagle. The 2 strong traits we have define us, there ends up being 12 combinations of 2 strong traits, 12 happens to represent government and we need to get along. lol

Thanks for sharing, Stillness. I guess personality traits is one way of describing it, as you put it. One way that the Ox is described in scripture is as a person sharing the word of God for the benefit of others. We read about this in 1 Corinthians 9:9-11. The scripture describes an ox treading the corn into fine flour. The corn is a picture of the people who are hearing the gospel and the ox is a picture of the person(s) who shares the gospel, labouring in the Lord in that respect. I am happy that you believe you have received enough of God's word to not be put to work by the Devil or yoked to the Devil. There is a scripture in Matthew 11:30 that describes God's yoke: "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

 

[followjesus]

The idea that the 4 gospels are pictured by the four types of creatures is pretty good, I think. After all, Jesus is the word. If you look at the position of the 4 creatures in Rev 6: "and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts " you find that 'in the midst' is used. This is a description of Jesus' position in relation to true believers throughout the Bible. He is frequently 'in the midst'. However, the verse elaborates that the 4 creatures are round about the throne as well as being in the midst. This could easily be the position of the true believers, round about. Yet Rev 5 elaborates more: "in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb". The throne is, in my opinion, a description of wherever God is 'on the throne', so to speak, in a person's heart. Jesus (Lamb) is in the midst of it in those cases. Further, the four beasts are there in those cases, meaning the word of God (gospel), most likely. Jesus is in the midst of the gospel. Further, Jesus is in the midst of the true believers, who are pictured by the 24 elders. The 24 elders are probably a parable metaphor for all true believers who have God on the throne in their hearts.

Further, you may notice that the 4 living creatures like to say "Come and see" in Rev 6. But it is Jesus who says "Come and see" in John 1:39. Further, Philip in John 1:46 says, "Come and see". If the 4 living creatures are similar, then they would be part of both Jesus and the true believers, and the word of God could describe this, the word of God being one definition of the 4 living creatures. At some point, you probably could say that if the word dwells in the true believers then they are one with Christ, and differentiation between the entities is not a thing present so much.

thank you for that comment, and this part

"The throne is, in my opinion, a description of wherever God is 'on the throne', so to speak, in a person's heart."


is exactly how i see Gods presence. to me, the Bible supports God ruling from the throne of a persons Heart while at the same time, He is on the throne in Heaven because God is spirit, He is not bound to One place in time. He is able to be On His throne as pictured in daniel 7 when the ancient of days sits. and at the same time, he comes to us through the Holy spirit.

I think christians should really reallly look into the fact that there is a spiritual realm currently existing in this earth. and that we do Have a spiritual enemy that is seeking to destroy us even though we dont see Him, we see His fruit in the world.


thanks for the consideration of the comment here im gonna really consider this thank you again and God bless

 

[followjesus]

Some Scholars say they are a type of Cherbum angels and other scholars have the opinion that they are a different type of Angel on the level of Cherbums. Satan was a Cherbum angel at one time. All through the Bible we find that there are many different types of Angels and everyone has a part to play. They are not really beast, that is a misnomer unfortunate as it is.

i think honestly they are creatures is the idea created by God for the purposes that are described. what i find is that the four creatures actually are who sends the four spirits into the earth. the Horses represent spiritual powers coming from before God. they are spirits sent into the earth. we read many times also of the four angels prepared for the end times. to me the scripture really interprets its self more than anything.


i dont think its necassarily related but there are also the four beasts of daniel. which really make up the beast of the earth with seven Heads and ten Horns. somehow it may be related but heres what im talking about

daniel 7 :And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh


After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.


After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. ( this makes 7 Heads, and ten Horns the leopard Has 4 Heads)


I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, ( an 11th horn/ king ) before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: ( 11-3 is an eighth king) and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

v 19- "

19Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.


21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

the eighth king in revelation ( revelation 17)



and then the beast in revelation ( which takes the shape and form of the dragon )

Revelation 13 : 1-10 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast


. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.


7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. "


the four creatures proably arent tied to this, directly, but they appear around the throune, in the midst of the throne, and they also send 4 spirits into the earth, the horses depicted in both prophecies. i feel as if im getting closer to something in this study. thank you for the insight and sorry i got off subject God bless

 

[followjesus]

this part

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. "

and this partI beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;22Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


should make known that the saints will not be raptured before these things because the beast is making war with them and it is given to him to overcome the saints. and were also told that in those times we have to just persevers in faith. to me, the beast is already ruling the earth and overcoming many saints, by false doctrine and compromise from what God actually said, to what we want Him to have said.

 

[followjesus]

Read once long time ago, but the visions in Daniel of the daily sacrifice taken away refer to the time of the end. The next time in Daniel 12:11 the third world war, the time of trouble such as never was, the final battle, mentioned in Matthew 24:10 "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another," the falling away before the end. According to the budding of the fig tree In 1948 this generation shall not pass until all these thing be fulfilled ("A generation is 70 years and if it be 80 by reason of strength, it is but labour and sorrow." the final battle also referred as Jacob's trouble). 2018 would be the beginning of the time of trouble, 2028 is 80 years. Not claiming to know what I'm talking about. Many had visions and dreams of the time of trouble upon us. 34 years ago the Lord told me: Behold I am with you in a time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again. We are approaching the end of the second day of rebuilding of His temple, the third day is the first resurrection, When He shall rule for a thousand years with those who followed Him in His sufferings and death and Resurrection. "After two days He will revive us up and the third day we shall live in His sight." Hosea 6:2. Luke 13:32 refers to Jesus having begun the rebuilding of His temple when He began His ministry at 30 years of age, + 2000 = 2030. Again not claiming to know what am taking about but no other view satisfies. Jesus fulfilled the rebuilding of His temple as the head of the Church in His own body. "Now we are the body of Christ," approaching the end.

Read once long time ago, but the visions in Daniel of the daily sacrifice taken away refer to the time of the end. "

do you think possibly it is referring to the end of the first order of things? according to Jesus, the law and prophets were preached up until He bagan preaching the gospel. were told of the two covenants, and were also told of two creations in the bible. One is what God created in the beginning, gave to mankind, and we ruined it by cursing the earth. and the second is " all things are created through Christ Jesus from the beginning.

just a thought, antiochus epiphanes actually did remove the daily sacrifice, and actually sacrificed a pig to zeus, on the altar in Gods temple. about 250 years later, the temple was destroyed and has never been rebuilt. the first order of worship was based on that temple, Our worship is based on the temple of the Body of Christ. everything in the old testament, is spoken forth and the reality of things come in Christ.

even the creation of man is represented 2 times. Once " and God mad man in His own image, in His own Likeness God made man both male and female.

and then Paul teaches us that through Christ, we are being transformed into the image of Our creator.


why do you think if were made in Gods Image from the start, do we need to " die" to the old creation, and be born again in the new? do you think its possible the time of the end there in daniel is referring to the end of the first order of things? remembering that this world both earth and Heaven are already bound to destruction. i think the thing is we need " salvation" because something went wrong the first time.

we were made in Gods image, and then satan came aloing and shaped us into His image which is why were all sinners and need salvation...redemption. reconciliation. those words mean that we priorly had a better relationship that was broken. Like a marriage splits up, and they reconcile.


One creation is physical One is spiritual. im not sure im disagreeing with you i just have a bit of a different take on daniel there, with all that said, i believe it also does apply to the end Just not solely. God bless thanks for the insight and consideration in leaving the great comments.

 

[birdie]

thank you for that comment, and this part

"The throne is, in my opinion, a description of wherever God is 'on the throne', so to speak, in a person's heart."


is exactly how i see Gods presence. to me, the Bible supports God ruling from the throne of a persons Heart while at the same time, He is on the throne in Heaven because God is spirit, He is not bound to One place in time. He is able to be On His throne as pictured in daniel 7 when the ancient of days sits. and at the same time, he comes to us through the Holy spirit.

I think christians should really reallly look into the fact that there is a spiritual realm currently existing in this earth. and that we do Have a spiritual enemy that is seeking to destroy us even though we dont see Him, we see His fruit in the world.


thanks for the consideration of the comment here im gonna really consider this thank you again and God bless

Thanks, followjesus, for your comment. The Bible often uses physical-sounding language to describe what is going on in the spiritual realm. For example, we read in 2 Peter 1:19: " and the daystar arise in your hearts:". Obviously, the sun or some other physical space entity that we might think of as the day star could not physically get into a persons heart, which does not mean a physical heart either, by the way. The terms are spiritual terms describing how Jesus (the day star) arises in a persons inner being. We could not even fit a physical Jesus in there - just Jesus being there by his spirit.

Interestingly, the term heaven is defined in the Bible: "Heaven is my throne," (Acts 7:49). We might be able to say that heaven is anywhere where God is on the throne, so to speak, in a person's heart. People tend to think of heaven in many ways, sometimes thinking physically. However, consider that when God sends forth his messengers in Matthew 24:31 to gather the true believers (by means of the gospel), he gathers them from one end of heaven to the other. In other words, the true believers seem to be described as being heaven. It is like saying from one end of the true believers to the other end of the true believers, all of them.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Four arms of the Galaxy.

 

[followjesus]

Thanks, followjesus, for your comment. The Bible often uses physical-sounding language to describe what is going on in the spiritual realm. For example, we read in 2 Peter 1:19: " and the daystar arise in your hearts:". Obviously, the sun or some other physical space entity that we might think of as the day star could not physically get into a persons heart, which does not mean a physical heart either, by the way. The terms are spiritual terms describing how Jesus (the day star) arises in a persons inner being. We could not even fit a physical Jesus in there - just Jesus being there by his spirit.

Interestingly, the term heaven is defined in the Bible: "Heaven is my throne," (Acts 7:49). We might be able to say that heaven is anywhere where God is on the throne, so to speak, in a person's heart. People tend to think of heaven in many ways, sometimes thinking physically. However, consider that when God sends forth his messengers in Matthew 24:31 to gather the true believers (by means of the gospel), he gathers them from one end of heaven to the other. In other words, the true believers seem to be described as being heaven. It is like saying from one end of the true believers to the other end of the true believers, all of them.

amen thats good stuff thank you for that.

yes i think that if we were able to look at Gods Word as it has always declared to be. "spiritual truth" " spirit and Life" we would see that the "spirit" is found in what a person speaks forth. i think that understanding would help alot especially with the gospel. "the spirit of the Gospel is brotherly Love" you discern it through what is written or spoken after it was written.

there is a spirit in words for insatance ( and please bear with me just an extreme example) if i say to you " I hate you, i wish you a terrible Life of suffering" there is a spirit attatched to those words, a spirit in them. a spirit of hate, anger, unforgiveness, wrath, a lowly countenance ect. and there is spirit also in actions, such as the man who killed 26 christians sundat morning in church, there is a spirit within His actions, the spirit of satan in the earth.

it works the same way in Gods Word. there is a comforting spirit when we speak words of comfort, encouragement, truth to each other, there is also a spirit when we see one in need and go out of our way to help them being able to do so. the spirit of the Gospel. this understanding of the spiritual Knowledge in the words, rather than the litteral Human understanding brings Light to the gospel. it helps immensly because of the spiritual nature of Gods Word, for instance.

matthew 5 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

see there is a spiritual message here, it isnt to literally pluck out our eyes and cut our hands off, its a lesson from the Lord teaching us that sin will lead us to hell, to do whatever we must do, to rid our hearts of lust. or again

john 6:Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day"

this caused many discuples to abandon Jesus, because they were not seeing what Jesus tells the disciples next.

john 6:60-63 "Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."


many of Jesus words are like this. paul speaks the same way, Jesus isnt always speaking litterally he is showing things through spiritual truths spoken to natural man. he uses the physical examples like " plucking out the eye" because we are mortal and will understand that and the message of sins deadly effect is made Known .....through the spirit in Gods Word. paul says many things like this " crucify the flesh" if you " put to death the flesh, you will live" " i bear in my body the marks of christ" " i beat my body and keep it in subjection" things like that are the same spiritual principles paul is using human explainations well undrstand but conveying deep spiritual truth

 

[followjesus]

Four arms of the Galaxy.

thank you for the addition, im not really familiar with astrology other than a study i have done of ancient babylonian false gods that man named the stars from. the sun god whos universal number is 666. and all of that whole babylonian, astrological religion, with the planet gods and stars ect.

I do find the universe fascinating being the Work of God and with such mystery and unfathomable questions and wonder.

God bless and Keep you

 

[Bladerunner]

i think honestly they are creatures is the idea created by God for the purposes that are described. what i find is that the four creatures actually are who sends the four spirits into the earth. the Horses represent spiritual powers coming from before God. they are spirits sent into the earth. we read many times also of the four angels prepared for the end times. to me the scripture really interprets its self more than anything.


i dont think its necassarily related but there are also the four beasts of daniel. which really make up the beast of the earth with seven Heads and ten Horns. somehow it may be related but heres what im talking about

followjesus....The King James Version states these creatures are "Beast". This is unfortunate as the Greek interpretation as a "living Creature". These are among the Jewish Tribes when they camp... Each Camp has three tribes within it Those four insignias of these four tribes are; Man, Lion, Ox (calf) and an Eagle.

There are some that equate these creatures to the four Gospels. Mathew wrote of Jesus as a Jew. (Judah-Lion), Mark wrote of Jesus as a servant to mankind (calf or young OX- Ephraim), Luke wrote of Jesus as the 'SON of MAN' (Man- Reuben) and John wrote of Jesus as the 'SON of GOD' (Eagle- Dan).

Knowing HOW the apostles wrote the gospels helps when you are reading them.

Here is a article link you might find interesting. Foundations: Studies in Bible Theology






daniel 7 :And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh


After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.


After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. ( this makes 7 Heads, and ten Horns the leopard Has 4 Heads)


I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, ( an 11th horn/ king ) before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: ( 11-3 is an eighth king) and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

v 19- "

19Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.


21I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

the eighth king in revelation ( revelation 17)



and then the beast in revelation ( which takes the shape and form of the dragon )

Revelation 13 : 1-10 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast


. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.


7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. "


the four creatures proably arent tied to this, directly, but they appear around the throune, in the midst of the throne, and they also send 4 spirits into the earth, the horses depicted in both prophecies. i feel as if im getting closer to something in this study. thank you for the insight and sorry i got off subject God bless

I have to go so I don't have time to comment on most of the above. However, I think the above is brought on by the 'living Creatures' found in Revelation. They are unrelated to Daniel's Beast. The Beast of Rev 17.