Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
I agree with everything he said in bold. And yes I liked it, I agree with it.
Based on the assumption that Phart is teaching a gospel of Works, VCO does not think he is saved,, I tend to agree with him.
However, I can not judge his salvation, only God can, But if I think someone is not saved, I think it is only pertinent to ask them to repent ands come to jesus. Because I might be right
I would hope you would do the same.
My join date is irrelevant to this discussion and just another diversion.
Matt 12:36-37
[SUP]36 [/SUP]But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. [SUP]37 [/SUP]For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
Now since the love of God is shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Spirit[your words from your posts] then maybe you need to own what you said to phart and then maybe phart should show some wisdom and caution and step out of the OP and created his own OP to share with his own like minded brothers and sisters how he internalizes the Bible
This is not an attmept to out you or get you. It is an attmept to show that this thread could do a lot of good, if people stopped all the games. If you and your like minded brothers want your own clubhouse then make it that way and stay in it and do not go throwing your own internalization and convictions into other people threads and others ought not do the same to your OP's.
It is obvious on this thread, you guys really do not want discussion you want a like minded team house. So do that, knock yourselves out, make it a team house for like minded bros and sisters.
Please stop the contradictions, attacks, implications and innuendoes on others that do not share your internalization of the Bible and personal convictions on the doctrine of Salvation. I would urge phart and others to open their own OP on their internalization of the Bible and personal convictions on the doctrine of Salvation.
Making separate OP's means you guys don't cross over and the other side does not cross over. That way the readers are edified and benefit from the 2 sided debate and do not have to dread coming into he BDF because Team House A has to be at war with Team B and vice-verse.
This kind of judging just floors me.
If Phart has confessed Jesus Christ as his Lord and believed that God raised him from the dead, he shall be saved Rom 10:9-10).
His believing that he must do good works to maintain his salvation does not change that he is born of the Holy Spirit, the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13-14).
If Phart has confessed Jesus Christ as his Lord and believed that God raised him from the dead, he shall be saved Rom 10:9-10).
His believing that he must do good works to maintain his salvation does not change that he is born of the Holy Spirit, the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:13-14).
E
This type of thinking just floors me
Paul spoke of people who confessed jesus and believed God raised him from ther dead, yet turned to rules to maintains their salvation, He actually called them fools (Paul’s words not mine) saying they are fools for beginning in the spirit (faith) but then trying to perfect thast salvation by the flesh (works)
This is exactly what Phart is prreaching, Paul said there is one gospel. Not 1 1/2 not 2 not three, not this gospel is ok, and that gospel is ok, as long as we all believe, he said one gospel. Period.
If one preaches we do good works to maintain salvation, they are preaching a works based Gospel. This they have rejected a grace based gospel. Period.
The best remedy against false teachers who teach/preach a perverted gospel in real life, who are not under your direct spiritual authority, part of your church or not in your sphere of influence is to pray for them and this is what I pray for them:
Father, in the name of Jesus I pray for false teacher Bob, I praythat the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to Bob a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of you Father. I pray that the eyes of Bob's heart may be enlightened, so that he will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. that, Father, you would grant Bob, according to the riches of your glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in Bob's inner man, so that Christ may dwell in Bob's hearts through faith; and that Bob, being rooted and grounded in love,may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that Bob may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
Father, in the name of Jesus I pray for false teacher Bob, I praythat the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to Bob a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of you Father. I pray that the eyes of Bob's heart may be enlightened, so that he will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. that, Father, you would grant Bob, according to the riches of your glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in Bob's inner man, so that Christ may dwell in Bob's hearts through faith; and that Bob, being rooted and grounded in love,may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that Bob may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
E
Actually yes he did..
Thats why he called them fools.. and he also said they were to be damned (if any one preach a different gospel than what we preach, even if an angel in heaven does, they are to be damned, or cursed, or anathema’d whatever your interpretation says)
he also question if they suffered so many things in vein,, This is only applicable if you suffer for christ, yet ar not saved. A believer in heaven has never suffered in vein, only non believers who suffer because they try to follow God without being saved.
Thats why he called them fools.. and he also said they were to be damned (if any one preach a different gospel than what we preach, even if an angel in heaven does, they are to be damned, or cursed, or anathema’d whatever your interpretation says)
he also question if they suffered so many things in vein,, This is only applicable if you suffer for christ, yet ar not saved. A believer in heaven has never suffered in vein, only non believers who suffer because they try to follow God without being saved.
Last edited by a moderator:
No, he did not.
Gal 3:
1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
The unsaved do not receive the Spirit.
Gal 3:
1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
The unsaved do not receive the Spirit.
E
That’s fine, but if all you do is pray for Bob, and never try to show him he is in error. Or if Bob is in a situation where he is trying to influence a bunch of other people wiht his false truth, say like in a chatroom, then something is seriously wrong.. Bobe will never get the message, and the people Bob is influencing may never hear the truth, just Bobs Version of it.
E
The unbeliever does not recieve the spirit by the works of the law/. They recieve it by the hearing of faith.
Paul is calling their faiht into question, and asking them to look inside and see why they think they are saved, Because of their faith, or because they obey the law.
The hearing of faih is one gospel
the works of the law is another gospel.
Paul said only one gospel saved, they both can not..
Paul is calling their faiht into question, and asking them to look inside and see why they think they are saved, Because of their faith, or because they obey the law.
The hearing of faih is one gospel
the works of the law is another gospel.
Paul said only one gospel saved, they both can not..
That's right. The Galatians had received the Spirit.
Even people who think they are saved by maintaining good works, the reality is that they were saved when they believed on Jesus Christ.
Paul never said or implied they were not saved.
The true gospel is that we are saved by faith in Christ. Even if a person believes he is saved by works, he is saved because of his faith in Christ.
Even people who think they are saved by maintaining good works, the reality is that they were saved when they believed on Jesus Christ.
Paul never said or implied they were not saved.
The true gospel is that we are saved by faith in Christ. Even if a person believes he is saved by works, he is saved because of his faith in Christ.
If Bob is not under your direct spiritual authority you have no business correcting Bob at all.
When you confront Bob and force him to renounce his heresy and Bob punches you in the face in front of your wife and kids, you were not being persecuted for righteousness sake, you were being a fool and in your flesh and not being led by the Holy Spirit and deserved to have your nose re-arranged to the other side of your face.
If Bob is under your spiritual authority, is in your church, and is doing what you described above then the matter is very different. If you attmept to remedy Bob Biblically and he rejects your reproving and rebuke, you toss him, you do not try to win him over. If Bob comes back and repents you have won your brother.
Attempting to play this on an internet chat board has never made sense to me.
When you confront Bob and force him to renounce his heresy and Bob punches you in the face in front of your wife and kids, you were not being persecuted for righteousness sake, you were being a fool and in your flesh and not being led by the Holy Spirit and deserved to have your nose re-arranged to the other side of your face.
If Bob is under your spiritual authority, is in your church, and is doing what you described above then the matter is very different. If you attmept to remedy Bob Biblically and he rejects your reproving and rebuke, you toss him, you do not try to win him over. If Bob comes back and repents you have won your brother.
Attempting to play this on an internet chat board has never made sense to me.
Last edited:
E
They were only saved if they had true faith in christ, If they had doubt, or felt like they had to work to maintain their salvation, their faith is in their works, NOT christ.
Paul disagrees with you,
Not by works of righteousness but by his mercy he saved us
If it is grace it is no longer works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. And vice verse.
And all the passages where he states plainly we are saved by faith, Not by works .
You can not be saved by faith, and works both, it must be one or the other.
Paul disagrees with you,
Not by works of righteousness but by his mercy he saved us
If it is grace it is no longer works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. And vice verse.
And all the passages where he states plainly we are saved by faith, Not by works .
You can not be saved by faith, and works both, it must be one or the other.
AMEN.....any "I must dogma" beyond trusting into the saving faith of Christ for eternal salvation, justification, sanctification and the sealing of the Holy Spirit is a café blend working for dogma with no power to save, double cursed and only the deceived and foolish believe such things according to Paul who was inspired and taught by direct revelation......!
E
We will have to agree to disagree, If someone is teaching a false gospel. Everyone has the responsibility to reprove and rebuke,
if I am trying to forced them, your right,.
No one is trying to force anyone to do anything, Phart can do whatever he wants, But he can also expect to be called out if he says things which do not agree with scripture.
If I ask someone to repent and receiver Christ. Well matt 28 will answer you there.
This is a public area, Peope preach and people listen,, If you allow sin to continue even in a chatroom, you are advocating enablement
if someon eteaches a false gospel. And you let it go without giving a counterpoint. Some one may believe that gospel.
That is to big a risk for me to sit still.. Maybe you fell ok with that.. But like I said, we will have to agree to disagree.
if I am trying to forced them, your right,.
No one is trying to force anyone to do anything, Phart can do whatever he wants, But he can also expect to be called out if he says things which do not agree with scripture.
If I ask someone to repent and receiver Christ. Well matt 28 will answer you there.
This is a public area, Peope preach and people listen,, If you allow sin to continue even in a chatroom, you are advocating enablement
if someon eteaches a false gospel. And you let it go without giving a counterpoint. Some one may believe that gospel.
That is to big a risk for me to sit still.. Maybe you fell ok with that.. But like I said, we will have to agree to disagree.