An Increase of Cessationists and Legalists (CC)

[notuptome]

Feeding divisiveness rather than unity. Subtle, but clearly you are seeking to cause discord. You must be proud.

Could just be attempting to quite the growing discomfort of his own heart.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:17 ¶ This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is the MISAPPLICATION of "Legalism". Christians who hold to specific standards are called "Legalists" by those who do not believe that Christians should maintain specific standards.

Which is exactly what the poster said.

Legalists hold that we are Saved, or if not saved, sanctified by law or some set of rules and regulations (that is our standard)

non legalists say we are sanctifie4d by learning to love as Christ loved us, and th empower is Gods mercy and grace, not the law.

Legalists claim I deserve because I have done.

Not legalists claim I do not deserve, so I praise God. And keep walking in spite of my weaknesses.

 

[Bogadile]

I must agree, this forum is quite tame.

Yup. If this place gets your feelings hurt maybe it is time to toughen up.

 

[beastslayer1970]

As I see it there is much more to legalism than belief in justification by works. I believe that belief that observing laws (of any sort) enhances your Christian walk either is or tends toward legalism. I believe that advocating laws as a way of changing unbelievers' behavior is the worst kind of legalism; because it undermines the teaching that our relationship with God is based on grace. Any teaching that observance of or refraining from certain activities is essential to a Christian life is legalism. The behaviors may indeed be things that God desires to build into our walk with Him; but the work of the Holy Spirit (NOT THE WORK OF A RULE BOOK) is the only non-legalistic way to get there.

Modern day legalism to me is changing the outside to manifest a change on the inside or the change on the inside.

We saw Independent Fundamental Baptists do this in the 70's and early 80's.

When churches mandate a dress code, hair styles for women and hair length for men, do not eat pork, private Christian schools versus public schools for kids, no TV or going to movies. These things to me are modern day legalism.

Sadly the pendulum swung just as far to the other side. We now are actually having to define to some generations what progressive sanctification, consecration and Holiness really is. While there is freedom in Jesus and personal conviction of what sin that varies from brother and sister. The constant should be Col 3:17:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

Because of false teachings of legalism we thought the antidote was the now false teaching of hyper-grace and the need for the church to be relevant to reach people. This is why the modern day Christian does not treat Jesus as their steering wheel the treat Jesus as their spare tire.

The Merchant who bought the pearl of great price had to give up all he had to obtain the one great pearl.

 

[loveme1]

Which is exactly what the poster said.

Legalists hold that we are Saved, or if not saved, sanctified by law or some set of rules and regulations (that is our standard)

non legalists say we are sanctifie4d by learning to love as Christ loved us, and th empower is Gods mercy and grace, not the law.

Legalists claim I deserve because I have done.

Not legalists claim I do not deserve, so I praise God. And keep walking in spite of my weaknesses.

Not quite... you would label me a legalistic but I deserve nothing.. do not mix Loving because you are Loved as anything other than gratitude...


Those that are saved love because of and not for.. not by but unto if you prefer.. the Lord knows how to provoke His Sheep to love and do good .. He is their example just like any Good Leader.. the Good Shepherd indeed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not quite... you would label me a legalistic but I deserve nothing.. do not mix Loving because you are Loved as anything other than gratitude...

I label you a legalist because you stand up for them, and you claim salvation can be lost.

Those that are saved love because of and not for.. not by but unto if you prefer.. the Lord knows how to provoke His Sheep to love and do good .. He is their example just like any Good Leader.. the Good Shepherd indeed.

So if you believed this, then why do you deny God can do this for all people. And some may be lost and lose salvation in spite of these promises?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Modern day legalism to me is changing the outside to manifest a change on the inside or the change on the inside.

You cannot change the proper meaning of Legalism just because you disagree with other Christians regarding their standards of deportment and behavior. I have already provided the correct meaning of Legalism, and I am now quoting from Theopedia to confirm that that is indeed the correct meaning, and Christians should stop misapplying it to believers who have been saved by grace through faith. That is sheer nonsense.

Legalism, in Christianity, is a term referring to an improper fixation on law or codes of conduct for a person to merit or obtain salvation, blessing from God, or fellowship with God, with an attendant misunderstanding of the grace of God.

Simply put, legalism is belief that obedience to the law or a set of rules is the pre-eminent principle of redemption and/or favor with God. Its opposite extreme is antinomianism which claims that moral laws are not binding on Christian believers.

​http://www.theopedia.com/legalism

 

[beastslayer1970]

You cannot change the proper meaning of Legalism just because you disagree with other Christians regarding their standards of deportment and behavior. I have already provided the correct meaning of Legalism, and I am now quoting from Theopedia to confirm that that is indeed the correct meaning, and Christians should stop misapplying it to believers who have been saved by grace through faith. That is sheer nonsense.

Legalism, in Christianity, is a term referring to an improper fixation on law or codes of conduct for a person to merit or obtain salvation, blessing from God, or fellowship with God, with an attendant misunderstanding of the grace of God.

Simply put, legalism is belief that obedience to the law or a set of rules is the pre-eminent principle of redemption and/or favor with God. Its opposite extreme is antinomianism which claims that moral laws are not binding on Christian believers.

​http://www.theopedia.com/legalism

I just described what you are saying.

Several of us have said the the very same thing you are saying in your more sophisticated, scholarly way.

No offense brother, but you seem to have a need to be the smartest guy in the room and all the time. You remind me of several Masters of theology kids I used to advise. One should never appear to be educated beyond their means with people or audiences they know nothing about.

 

[loveme1]

I label you a legalist because you stand up for them, and you claim salvation can be lost.





So if you believed this, then why do you deny God can do this for all people. And some may be lost and lose salvation in spite of these promises?

Label me a legalist if you wish.. but do not declare all are of the same mind.. and you claim I claim salvation can be lost.. when in fact I said I believe the Lord who states He can blot names and deem some unworthy to walk in white with Him..

GOD is Faithful and keeps His Promises.. But a Covenant is an agreement and if you enter in then you have your side to Keep... Believe... and where instruction is given do.. GOD being the power in all things when we Believe.. Abraham believed GOD and followed the instruction and likewise we Hear the Lord and obey Him.. so if that is legalistic then it is the Law of Faith.. or the Law of Liberty or even the Royal Law.. all equate to The Just living by Faith...

Grace, Love and Truth indeed.

GOD be thanked.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Label me a legalist if you wish.. but do not declare all are of the same mind.. and you claim I claim salvation can be lost.. when in fact I said I believe the Lord who states He can blot names and deem some unworthy to walk in white with Him..

GOD is Faithful and keeps His Promises.. But a Covenant is an agreement and if you enter in then you have your side to Keep... Believe... and where instruction is given do.. GOD being the power in all things when we Believe.. Abraham believed GOD and followed the instruction and likewise we Hear the Lord and obey Him.. so if that is legalistic then it is the Law of Faith.. or the Law of Liberty or even the Royal Law.. all equate to The Just living by Faith...

Grace, Love and Truth indeed.

GOD be thanked.

This is legalism at its finest. It states God has his part. And man has to keep his part. If either fail. Then salvation is revoked.

Yes,. That is legalism., It states salvation is a reward. Not a gift of God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Where are these chat rooms at? I have yet to see one,, not saying they are not there/ Just saying I never saw one.

This is actually one of the calmest chat room I have ever been a member off.. Most of the chat rooms I have visited make Christian Chat look like paradise.

used to be you mean?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

used to be you mean?

Lol, it is still nicer than most I have been too.

 

[Nehemiah6]

No offense brother, but you seem to have a need to be the smartest guy in the room and all the time. You remind me of several Masters of theology kids I used to advise. One should never appear to be educated beyond their means with people or audiences they know nothing about.

No offense taken. You and I (and some others) are actually on the same page. What I should have really said is "One cannot..." instead of "You cannot.." which implied that you were misapplying the meaning. As to the rest, it is what it is. Each one has their own way of presenting their thoughts.

 

[stonesoffire]

Feeding divisiveness rather than unity. Subtle, but clearly you are seeking to cause discord. You must be proud.

No, he's pointing out the divisiveness that's already here. How blind are we?

 

[loveme1]

This is legalism at its finest. It states God has his part. And man has to keep his part. If either fail. Then salvation is revoked.

Yes,. That is legalism., It states salvation is a reward. Not a gift of God.

Should I believe you and not the Lord? I think not... If I’m legalistic for believing then we should agree to disagree and let others decide who they Believe.. because we can not even say it is interpretation differences.. you assume so much from me saying I believe the Lord.. and that I pray never changes.

 

[notuptome]

No, he's pointing out the divisiveness that's already here. How blind are we?

He is pushing buttons and attempting to gather supporters. How blind indeed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hizikyah]

I got called a pharisee and a lawyer for posting this:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 2:9, “But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which YHWH has prepared for those who love Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”



I want to ask the OP and everyone, what exactl do you consider a legalist?

also If I believe we are to keep His Commands am I a legalist?
[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

Lol, it is still nicer than most I have been too.

EG, you said something in the first post, I think it is about, associating Pentecost with prosperity. The baptism of Holy Spirit is the dunamis power of God that comes upon the believer for acts, and up out of the believer in anointed words, by means of the gifts.

Prosperity is about the message of faith. Not all embraced the message, and then some took it out of proportion.

Cessationists are in reality denying the power of Holy Spirit, which is super natural, and have become a group of Christians concerned more with doctrine, than Spirit.

Sorry, if I stepped on toes, but is how I see this.

 

[phil36]

I got called a pharisee and a lawyer for posting this:

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”


Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


1 Corinthians 2:9, “But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which YHWH has prepared for those who love Him.”


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”



I want to ask the OP and everyone, what exactl do you consider a legalist?

also If I believe we are to keep His Commands am I a legalist?

Thats easy. Do you believe God commands that Christians keep (obligated) the Sabbath as in the Mosaic covenant (fri sunset thru sat sunset)

 

[stonesoffire]

I got called a pharisee and a lawyer for posting this:

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”


Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”


1 Corinthians 2:9, “But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which YHWH has prepared for those who love Him.”


John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”



I want to ask the OP and everyone, what exactl do you consider a legalist?

also If I believe we are to keep His Commands am I a legalist?

Your use of Exodus which covenants have been completed by Jesus, and a new covenant now in place, answers both questions. iMO