Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

[eternally-gratefull]

The image here depicts what is nailed to the cross

View attachment 176277

This is what is nailed to the cross,
The curse of the law, death.

O death, where is thy sting?​

This is odd. Did you even read the top caption? It says he cancelled the written code. Nailing it to the cross.

The written code is the commands, Not the curse. The curse was the penalty for not FULFILLING the written code.

Sadly it seems you ignored that, Like you ignore me and others like me who want to help you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Our faith in the above cartoon establishes the law removing itforeer from the stone, and taking away the curse of the law. The law is established on our hearts so when we act, we know in our hearts exactly how the law is to b edeat with for the law, spiritually, will never be abolished as long as there is sun and moon.

If some are so heartless as to believe Christ crucified meas we are to disobey the laws of love which include the commandments of God.....I have nothing but pity for them, and I pray God help them all, amen

Your slander gets worse and worse it seems weekly.

No one claims this, The person who posted those images does not claim this. Nor do any of us teach this.

How you can live with yourself while you break they very commands you claim you are defending by bearing false witness of others is just mind boggling.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The whole purpose of satan is to deceive people into disobeying God. satan used God's Word, not all of it, just the parts it could twist to trick Eve with, to turn her away from the true God in the very beginning. That is the one purpose of satan.

I challenge anyone to find scriptural support to the contrary.
.

This is what you call a total waste of time and energy.

He wrote a whole post trying to attack people he CLAIMS are decieved in to disobeying God, when the people he is attacking actually defend benign obedient to God and would be the first in line to help a brother who is struggling in sin, Not justify the sin, not say it is ok. But to actually get down in the trenches and help disciple this guy and be used by God to help this brother have victory over that sin.

 

[Studyman]

=valiant;3356337]

God has made many covenants. We are under the new covenant in His blood. The old is passed away, the new has come. You are putting an old cloth in a new garment.

We trace our ancestry to Abraham not to Israel. A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the Law which came four hundred and thirty years after cannot disannul. If the inheritance is of the Law it is no more of promise (Gal 3.17-18). We do not look to the earthly Jerusalem but the heavenly (Gal 4.21-31)

Paul is speaking about the "ADDED" Levitical Priesthood, not the Laws Abraham was blessed for keeping. Abraham had God's Commandments and laws, you Bible says this. But Levi wasn't even born yet, so the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins were not ADDED until 430 years later.

Yet, Abraham was considered righteous without these sacrificial "works of the Law". If in inheritance was the result of these "works" then it is lo longer a promise. Abraham believed in God enough to follow His Instructions and that was called "Faith" in the New Testament. He was justified by this "Faith" not the law which said I must go find a Levite and give him a goat to kill on my behalf.




I am not of Israel physically.

I look back to the Abrahamic covenant. The Law was temporary,

I challenge you to show Biblical support that God's Covenant with Abraham was only Temporary. What does it mean to have "The Faith of Abraham?"

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Is this more scriptures I must ignore in order to understand your preaching?

Christ's law is based on the Father's word, but it is not the law given to Israel. That was temporary. Find me ANY stipulation He gave about the 'fourth commandment' when He was listing God's eternal principles e.g. Matth 19.17-19 .You can't.

LOL you would have put it on every page

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Are there really people on this forum that don't know what the "Commandments" are? I don't think so.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

No mention of the First and Greatest Commandment, is that why mainstream Christians create images of God in the likeness of a long haired pretty boy?

No mention of taking the name of God in vain or being covetous, did Jesus destroy these as well?

So the Biblical fact that Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, and that He is the Lord of this particular Sabbath isn't good enough for you. The Biblical fact that Jesus was the God who created this Sabbath for Himself and for man in the first place isn't good enough for you?

The Biblical fact that Jesus said to those who hear Him:

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

How much scripture are you willing to destroy to keep you church tradition of transgressing God's Holy Sabbaths?

Christ's law is based on the Father's word, but it is not the law given to Israel.

This is the first thing I have ever seen you post that is Biblically true.

Christ's Law is based on the Word of God as He said. And this Word is given to all mankind as it is written.

Ex. 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Rom. 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jesus said to live by EVERY WORD of God, not just a verse here and there that can be twisted to justify ones traditions and lifestyle.

For me it is about what the Word teaches, all the Word. I have no religious franchise doctrine to defend, therefore it is not necessary for me to erase scriptures that might expose my traditions as of man and not of God.

 

[Grandpa]

========================================
well said, Marc,

but, God's Law is our school-master, 'HOLY', that leads us to our Saviour, and we certainly should
never put 'away' what we have learned from our Holy School Master,..

What did we learn from the school master??????

 

[Grandpa]

You are twisting what I ahve said, I never said faith establishes the levitical mediated law, we have gone over and over how Yahshua is High Priest, you know what Im not even going to give this anyomre time.

You agreed with studyman that when the bible says works of the law it means levitical priesthood.

I am just showing you and studyman that if you are consistent with that silly philosophy it is error and does not make sense.

IF you say that works of the law means levitical law then THE BIBLE says that our faith establishes levitical law. That is obviously error and you recognize it.

Your counterpart studyman has not.

 

[Studyman]

This is what you call a total waste of time and energy.

He wrote a whole post trying to attack people he CLAIMS are decieved in to disobeying God, when the people he is attacking actually defend benign obedient to God and would be the first in line to help a brother who is struggling in sin, Not justify the sin, not say it is ok. But to actually get down in the trenches and help disciple this guy and be used by God to help this brother have victory over that sin.

Does this sting you EG? It should. My post was 100% Biblical, it is the teachings of Christ. I don't have to erase or ignore scriptures or twist God's Word to defend some mainstream religious franchise traditions.

How can I Love my Brother and not warn him of the dangers Jesus warned of. How can I love my brother by furthering doctrines that are contrary to the Words of God.

If I posted an untruth about God, then open God's Word and show me where. But if God's Word stings you, then your beef is with Him, not me.

 

[Grandpa]

The way 99.9% of people view the law as a carnal commandment to be fulfilled by their carnal will and strength, YES the Lord Jesus Christ abolished that, for Christians who have come to Him.

The true spiritual law is not abolished for the Christian. But they are not requirements for the Christian to try to fulfill on their own, either.

In order to fulfill a spiritual law we must rely on the spirit.

The Lord Jesus tells us this but it is lost to the legalist and judaizer.

John 15:5 [FONT=&quot]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Here is the fruit the Lord is talking about;

Galatians 5:22-23
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This fruit FULFILLS the spiritual law. And this is how our faith establishes the law.

We abide in Christ and HE produces the fruit of Righteousness and Obedience in our lives.

We are Gods Workmanship now. We don't rely on our strength and our understanding.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/FONT]

 

[Studyman]

You agreed with studyman that when the bible says works of the law it means levitical priesthood.

I am just showing you and studyman that if you are consistent with that silly philosophy it is error and does not make sense.

IF you say that works of the law means levitical law then THE BIBLE says that our faith establishes levitical law. That is obviously error and you recognize it.

Your counterpart studyman has not.

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There is a "LAW of FAITH" and a "LAW of WORKS". You either believe or you don't.

Is "Thou shall love the Lord thy God" a Law of Faith or a Law of works?

Is "Bring a goat to the Levite to kill on your behalf" a Law of Faith or a Law of works.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Is Paul speaking about the "Law of Faith" here, or the "Law of Works"?

These are valid questions that you REFUSE to answer.


Hiz is simple posting what the Scriptures say. It is not his fault or mine that you refuse to acknowledge them.

 

[Grandpa]

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There is a "LAW of FAITH" and a "LAW of WORKS". You either believe or you don't.

Is "Thou shall love the Lord thy God" a Law of Faith or a Law of works?

Are you trying real hard to fulfill it? If so, then it is a law of works.

Is "Bring a goat to the Levite to kill on your behalf" a Law of Faith or a Law of works.

If you believe that blood will cover your sin then it is a law of faith.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Is Paul speaking about the "Law of Faith" here, or the "Law of Works"?

No point in explaining this to you there is no way for you to understand.

Who are the doers of the law, those who are righteous or those who are not?

These are valid questions that you REFUSE to answer.

I do?

Hiz is simple posting what the Scriptures say. It is not his fault or mine that you refuse to acknowledge them.

You are the one not acknowledging.

Hiz agrees that your philosophy of the works of the law being levitical law is error.

 

[Studyman]

This is odd. Did you even read the top caption? It says he cancelled the written code. Nailing it to the cross.

The written code is the commands, Not the curse. The curse was the penalty for not FULFILLING the written code.

Sadly it seems you ignored that, Like you ignore me and others like me who want to help you.

This is what I am talking about EG. You take:

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And you twist this scripture to preach Jesus nailed the 10 Commandments to the cross. Thus justifying your church tradition of transgressing the Commandments of God. To do this you must erase volumes of scriptures because there is no teaching anywhere in the Bible that preaches the 10 commandments are against us. This is your doctrine, created by a church who creates an image of God in the likeness of man (and many other such things they do). And what makes it worse, I think you already know this.

What Paul is teaching, is that the handwriting of ordinances that "WAS AGAINST US" is the law that says "the soul that sins shall die". It was my death Jesus nailed to the Cross, not God's Righteousness.

And in Brotherly Love I am speaking out against this teaching because it is false. I know I will take heat from you and others as did Paul from the Mainstream preachers of his time. I wish it were not so, but it is.

 

[Grandpa]

This is what I am talking about EG. You take:

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And you twist this scripture to preach Jesus nailed the 10 Commandments to the cross. Thus justifying your church tradition of transgressing the Commandments of God. To do this you must erase volumes of scriptures because there is no teaching anywhere in the Bible that preaches the 10 commandments are against us. This is your doctrine, created by a church who creates an image of God in the likeness of man (and many other such things they do). And what makes it worse, I think you already know this.

What Paul is teaching, is that the handwriting of ordinances that "WAS AGAINST US" is the law that says "the soul that sins shall die". It was my death Jesus nailed to the Cross, not God's Righteousness.

And in Brotherly Love I am speaking out against this teaching because it is false. I know I will take heat from you and others as did Paul from the Mainstream preachers of his time. I wish it were not so, but it is.

It was death Jesus nailed to the Cross.

The Ministration of Death and Condemnation.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.[/FONT]

 

[valiant]

=valiant;3356337]
God has made many covenants. We are under the new covenant in His blood. The old is passed away, the new has come. You are putting an old cloth in a new garment.

We trace our ancestry to Abraham not to Israel. A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the Law which came four hundred and thirty years after cannot disannul. If the inheritance is of the Law it is no more of promise (Gal 3.17-18). We do not look to the earthly Jerusalem but the heavenly (Gal 4.21-31)

Paul is speaking about the "ADDED" Levitical Priesthood, not the Laws Abraham was blessed for keeping. \

You mean the added 4th commandment?

Abraham had God's Commandments and laws, you Bible says this.

He had laws given to him in his day. No Sabbath day then.

But Levi wasn't even born yet, so the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins were not ADDED until 430 years later.

He said 'the Law'. All apart from you know what that meant. It included the Sabbath day law.

Yet, Abraham was considered righteous without these sacrificial "works of the Law".

Because he believed God (Gene 15.6). Romans 4 tells you all about it. You twist the Scriptures to suit yourself.

If in inheritance was the result of these "works" then it is lo longer a promise.

If the inheritance was the result of ANY works it was a debt not a promise (Rom 4.4-5).

Abraham believed in God enough to follow His Instructions and that was called "Faith" in the New Testament. He was justified by this "Faith" not the law which said I must go find a Levite and give him a goat to kill on my behalf.

Nor the Sabbath law.

I challenge you to show Biblical support that God's Covenant with Abraham was only Temporary. What does it mean to have "The Faith of Abraham?"

To have the faith of Abraham is to not trust in any works but rely on faith in God (Gen 15.6; Rom 4.4 on; Galatians 3). You'd better stick to the Law. We believe the Gospel.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So God hears the obedient believer? We all believe that. Well we do. But Abraham had nothing to do with the old covenant,

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Are there really people on this forum that don't know what the "Commandments" are? I don't think so.

Yes He lists them in Matthew 19.17-19. No Sabbath day there.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

SEE LOL?

No mention of the First and Greatest Commandment, is that why mainstream Christians create images of God in the likeness of a long haired pretty boy?

No mention of taking the name of God in vain or being covetous, did Jesus destroy these as well?

I don't know who these 'mainstream' Christians are. People of your imagination?

So the Biblical fact that Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, and that He is the Lord of this particular Sabbath isn't good enough for you

.

Yes. He showed that the Sabbath law was not binding on men. I agree with Him.

The Biblical fact that Jesus was the God who created this Sabbath for Himself and for man in the first place isn't good enough for you?

He didn't create the Sabbath, No mention of the Sabbath til Exod 16.

The Biblical fact that Jesus said to those who hear Him:

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

we take Moses in his context

How much scripture are you willing to destroy to keep you church tradition of transgressing God's Holy Sabbaths?

How much Scripture are you going to ignore in failing to recognise that Christ was the fulfilment of the Sabbath???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is what I am talking about EG. You take:

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And you twist this scripture to preach Jesus nailed the 10 Commandments to the cross. Thus justifying your church tradition of transgressing the Commandments of God. To do this you must erase volumes of scriptures because there is no teaching anywhere in the Bible that preaches the 10 commandments are against us. This is your doctrine, created by a church who creates an image of God in the likeness of man (and many other such things they do). And what makes it worse, I think you already know this.

What Paul is teaching, is that the handwriting of ordinances that "WAS AGAINST US" is the law that says "the soul that sins shall die". It was my death Jesus nailed to the Cross, not God's Righteousness.

And in Brotherly Love I am speaking out against this teaching because it is false. I know I will take heat from you and others as did Paul from the Mainstream preachers of his time. I wish it were not so, but it is.

Thats where we have a disconnect. For some reason, You take words, or word phrases which are used in every day life, and seem to give it a religious twist to make it fit your belief system, instead of just taking them as they are

An ordinance is a command, It is something one is either ordered to do, or a building in which two parties agree must be kept.

All ordinances have a penalty for failing to obey, follow or live up to what is required.

The ten commands were ordinances written on stone, they were commands, they were buildings in which God and Isreal were going to have a covenant, where both party’s would agree to follow

According to moses (a fig again. Paul confirmed in gal 3) the agreement was that all Isreal would confirm and obey every word of the ordinance given (written on stone) Faily to obey this agreement would place the one who breaks the ordinance under a curse. As we know, and again paul confirmed that curse was death.

What Jesus did on the cross. And what YOU AND ALL YOU JEWISH ROOTS PEOPLE FAIL TO COMPREHEND is that when God removed that curse, it means the ordinances written in stone can NEVER AGAIN place us under a curse.

No. As you tend to do. This does not give us the means or permission to go ahead and break all they commands we want, we can never SUFFER from them again, That is not true, People who sin SUFFER greatly, especially if they commit the more serious sins of murder and sexual sin. Or theft,, But what will not happen, is they original demand of the law (perfection) is no longer held, because we can not be CURSED by they law anymore


Paul said specifically, Jesus took the ordinances which was against us, contrary to us, out of the way, (in other words, he remov4ed them as a barrier between God and man, so the relationship could be restored. Because NO ONE CASN KEEP THE HANDWRITTEN ORDINANCES the way demands accruing to the law given moses.

Of course, you will deny this, You will twist this, you will do whatever you can to defend your false belief that the law is a means to spiritual growth, And in doing so. WATER DOWN THE LAW to suit your own selfish desire to convince yourself you love God and follow the very law he gave to CONDEMN YOU

the fact is, if the law has not and does not condemn you (or show you how you are condemned,) you have not yet been taught by the law. As paul said, You try to teach the law, yet you understand it not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Does this sting you EG? It should. My post was 100% Biblical, it is the teachings of Christ. I don't have to erase or ignore scriptures or twist God's Word to defend some mainstream religious franchise traditions.

lol. Bearing false witness against others is not biblical truth, It is actually breaking the very commands you keep trying to defend.
While what you said may be biblical truth (I never read past the part you slandered people. Why bother, ) it was taken out of context. And did not address the truth of what others are actually saying.

How can I Love my Brother and not warn him of the dangers Jesus warned of. How can I love my brother by furthering doctrines that are contrary to the Words of God.

If I posted an untruth about God, then open God's Word and show me where. But if God's Word stings you, then your beef is with Him, not me.

You will never warn anyone when you continue to bare false witness against them.

How can you want a brother if you do not even KNOW what they believe?

Did it sting me? Why would it sting me? I am not teaching it is ok for ANYONE to live in sin, break any command they want, And you can live however you want without any consequences.

That is what YOU THINK I believe, it is not reality.

 

[Studyman]

Are you trying real hard to fulfill it? If so, then it is a law of works.

If you believe that blood will cover your sin then it is a law of faith.

No point in explaining this to you there is no way for you to understand.

Who are the doers of the law, those who are righteous or those who are not?

I do?


You are the one not acknowledging.

Hiz agrees that your philosophy of the works of the law being levitical law is error.

Hiz agrees with God, regardless of what any one else preaches. When you ask Hiz a question, he answers it with Scriptures, thoroughly and honestly holding nothing back ever.

He doesn't refuse to acknowledge any scripture and is open to discussing any question anyone might have. And you can find nothing in any of his posts that contradicts this truth.

You, on the other hand, never answer a question honestly. You must play games and dismiss many scriptures because the Bible as a whole condemns your teaching. That is not his fault or mine. And God knows He has tried to show you the truth.

Of all the posts I have seen on this forum, few exhibit the humility and attention to God's Word over man's thought than Hiz. I say this to my shame.

If you think he preaches against the teaching of the Bible, then show the simplest of decent Christian behavior and open your Bible and show him. If he is wrong he will repent in sack cloth and ashes.

If you think I am wrong, then explain the scriptures I post that you seem to ignore, and simply answer my questions.

 

[valiant]

This is what I am talking about EG. You take:

Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And you twist this scripture to preach Jesus nailed the 10 Commandments to the cross.

No He nailed ALL commandments to the cross. Try reading Romans.

Thus justifying your church tradition of transgressing the Commandments of God.

We teach that ALL MEN have transgressed against the commands of God found continually in the scriptures.

To do this you must erase volumes of scriptures because there is no teaching anywhere in the Bible that preaches the 10 commandments are against us.

Romans 1.1-3.23?

This is your doctrine, created by a church who creates an image of God in the likeness of man (and many other such things they do). And what makes it worse, I think you already know this.

you mean the Hebrew roots movement?

What Paul is teaching, is that the handwriting of ordinances that "WAS AGAINST US" is the law that says "the soul that sins shall die". .

That is right, including the ten words,

It was my death Jesus nailed to the Cross, not God's Righteousness

No it was my sin, including the breaking of the commandments,

And in Brotherly Love I am speaking out against this teaching because it is false.

LOL God save us from brotherly love.

I know I will take heat from you and others as did Paul from the Mainstream preachers of his time. I wish it were not so, but it is.

Oh you poor soul. LOL

 

[gb9]

Hiz agrees with God, regardless of what any one else preaches. When you ask Hiz a question, he answers it with Scriptures, thoroughly and honestly holding nothing back ever.

He doesn't refuse to acknowledge any scripture and is open to discussing any question anyone might have. And you can find nothing in any of his posts that contradicts this truth.

You, on the other hand, never answer a question honestly. You must play games and dismiss many scriptures because the Bible as a whole condemns your teaching. That is not his fault or mine. And God knows He has tried to show you the truth.

Of all the posts I have seen on this forum, few exhibit the humility and attention to God's Word over man's thought than Hiz. I say this to my shame.

If you think he preaches against the teaching of the Bible, then show the simplest of decent Christian behavior and open your Bible and show him. If he is wrong he will repent in sack cloth and ashes.

If you think I am wrong, then explain the scriptures I post that you seem to ignore, and simply answer my questions.

you and hiz and lovegodforever have been shown, many times. many times you have told that one should not just pluck verses out and build theology around them, ya'll do it everyday that you post. so, it is not a burdon on us to make ya'll open your eyes to context and chronological order of Scripture, it is to ya'll to do so.

 

[Studyman]

=eternally-gratefull;3356565]

Thats where we have a disconnect. For some reason, You take words, or word phrases which are used in every day life, and seem to give it a religious twist to make it fit your belief system, instead of just taking them as they are

An ordinance is a command, It is something one is either ordered to do, or a building in which two parties agree must be kept.

I agree completely. There is an ordinance that is against us.

Num. 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.

All ordinances have a penalty for failing to obey, follow or live up to what is required.

Perfect so far. As it is written the man that kills a man shall be put to death. That is the Law. Where you are in error, is that the Law "thou shall not kill" is not against us or anyone and to preach as much is foolish at least, and blasphemy at most.

But the handwriting of ordinances that says if we break this law we are put to death, now that is the law that is against us.

You preach that the Law is our problem. How can the Law be the problem? How can we have a society with no law?

It isn't God's Commandments that are against us. It is the law that says we die when we break them.

The ten commands were ordinances written on stone, they were commands, they were buildings in which God and Isreal were going to have a covenant, where both party’s would agree to follow

No, God remembered His covenant with Abraham when the people cried out in Egypt. God's Commandments and Laws have always been there. They are universal and the Prophets speaks of all following them after the 2nd coming of Christ. I would show the scriptures but you will just ignore them. Ask for them and I will show them to you.

You just can't believe Paul when he teaches that God "ADDED" the Levitical Priesthood because of transgressions. Why, because transgressions of God's universal law cause the death that was against us. This "Levitical Priesthood" was the temporary law. Not the Righteous laws of God Abraham obeyed.

According to moses (a fig again. Paul confirmed in gal 3) the agreement was that all Isreal would confirm and obey every word of the ordinance given (written on stone) Faily to obey this agreement would place the one who breaks the ordinance under a curse. As we know, and again paul confirmed that curse was death.

Yes, that curse was death, That is what Jesus nailed to the cross.

What Jesus did on the cross. And what YOU AND ALL YOU JEWISH ROOTS PEOPLE FAIL TO COMPREHEND is that when God removed that curse, it means the ordinances written in stone can NEVER AGAIN place us under a curse.

Yes, if you believe the curse is death as Paul preaches this can be true. If we repent and turn to the God of the Bible, and bring works worthy of repentance, yes, as it is written.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Why do we need an advocate with the Father if Jesus nailed to definition of sin on the cross? Where there is no law, there is no sin. No, Jesus nailed our death to the cross and is faithful to forgive us if we slip in sin while we serve the Law of God in our mind as Paul did..

But if you preach that the curse that was nailed to the cross is God's Commandments. Then this scripture and volumes more must be thrown out as irrelevant.

No. As you tend to do. This does not give us the means or permission to go ahead and break all they commands we want, we can never SUFFER from them again, That is not true, People who sin SUFFER greatly, especially if they commit the more serious sins of murder and sexual sin. Or theft,, But what will not happen, is they original demand of the law (perfection) is no longer held, because we can not be CURSED by they law anymore

Here is where the post that stung you kicks in. We are warned over and over about satan trying to trick us into disobedience. You didn't like the post but you offered no rebuttal because you can't. You say in one breath the curse of the law is death and Paul preaches, and I agree.

But now you are back to preaching the curse of the Law is the Law. Which is false. Creating images of God in the likeness of man is sin. Creating "Feast's unto the Lord" is sin. But the Law isn't sin.

Rom. 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So if keeping the Law isn't sin, and disobeying the law is sin, even a child could figure that one out.

You don't think it is. You don't believe it is. But the First and greatest Commandment is very clear on that. Working on God's Sabbath Day is a sin. You don't believe it is, you don't think it is, but according to the Bible it is.

The Pharisees also created their own Sabbath. They sold their goods, placed unbearable burdens of the People as Jesus taught. Did they repent of this before Jesus rose from the dead? Nope, How about after Jesus rose from the dead, did they repent then? Nope. As Jesus said, "unless you all likewise repent, Ye shall all perish. But the Jews didn't think they were disobeying God even after God's word showed them that they were.. The didn't believe they were in sin even after God's Word showed them that they were. This is what I am hoping people on this forum can SEE.

Paul said specifically, Jesus took the ordinances which was against us, contrary to us, out of the way, (in other words, he remov4ed them as a barrier between God and man, so the relationship could be restored.

Absolutely, this barrier between God and man had to be destroyed. But is isn't God's Commandments that formed a barrier between Abraham and God, or Noah and God, or Zechariah and God. It was death, transgressions, rebellion, disobedience. That is the Barrier between God and man EG. It wasn't the Commandment that killed eve, it was her leaning on her own understanding.

Because NO ONE CASN KEEP THE HANDWRITTEN ORDINANCES the way demands accruing to the law given moses.

Here is where you fall off the tracks. Mercy, Grace and Faith are the Laws Abraham was blessed for keeping. What else do the 10 commandments and other of God's Commandments portray? Even the "ADDED" The Levitical Priesthood set up sacrifices for the very purpose of forgiving sins to foreshadow this Mercy and grace. Did the Levitical Priesthood foreshadow the elimination of God's Laws? No. They foreshadowed the perfect Blood to be shed for the remission of sins.

Why did transgression of God's Laws cause death and the need for such drastic measures for reconciliation?

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

You who are reading this, can you see. God set this up the way He did so we would consider sin(Transgression of His Law) to be very, very bad. Exceedingly bad. Wicked. As it is written:

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.


23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Of course, you will deny this, You will twist this, you will do whatever you can to defend your false belief that the law is a means to spiritual growth, And in doing so. WATER DOWN THE LAW to suit your own selfish desire to convince yourself you love God and follow the very law he gave to CONDEMN YOU

The preaching that God gave mankind His Laws to condemn them is amazing given what the Bible actually says. I agree that the penalty for breaking them contained in the handwriting of ordinances condemned everyone. And to get rid of the "Curse" (death) we must all go to Christ. But God gave Jesus His Commandments too. And Abraham. He didn't give it to them to condemn them, but that they might have life as Paul and Jesus and Moses taught. "If you want to inherit life, keep the Commandments" Which ones? The Levitical Priesthood? No, the Commandments of God. It's right there in your Bible.

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. You keep preaching just the opposite of what Paul preaches.

You will deny it of course.
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the fact is, if the law has not and does not condemn you (or show you how you are condemned,) you have not yet been taught by the law. As paul said, You try to teach the law, yet you understand it not.

Once again you preach a vision of your own mind, not what the Bible teaches. Which is my greatest beef with you.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

God's Laws condemn my flesh every day, but my flesh is dead to the Law, it no longer guides me as it used to. I am not my own now, I have been bought with a price. I am to bring every thought into the obedience of Christ.

You preach that this is impossible which is to be expected given all the warnings through out the Bible.

I, myself, SERVE the Law of God with my mind. Not the doctrines and traditions of man that you preach, but the Commandments of God that you reject. That way I never forget that I am a man and therefore deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked as Jesus teaches.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

And the blessing is this, that I see the warnings I posted and understand what they say and what they warn about so as to obey Jesus and take heed of those "many" who come in His name to trick me into living in rebellion to God's Words.

 

[Grandpa]

Hiz agrees with God, regardless of what any one else preaches. When you ask Hiz a question, he answers it with Scriptures, thoroughly and honestly holding nothing back ever.

He doesn't refuse to acknowledge any scripture and is open to discussing any question anyone might have. And you can find nothing in any of his posts that contradicts this truth.

You, on the other hand, never answer a question honestly. You must play games and dismiss many scriptures because the Bible as a whole condemns your teaching. That is not his fault or mine. And God knows He has tried to show you the truth.

Of all the posts I have seen on this forum, few exhibit the humility and attention to God's Word over man's thought than Hiz. I say this to my shame.

If you think he preaches against the teaching of the Bible, then show the simplest of decent Christian behavior and open your Bible and show him. If he is wrong he will repent in sack cloth and ashes.

If you think I am wrong, then explain the scriptures I post that you seem to ignore, and simply answer my questions.

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

[FONT=&quot]Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”

Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!”[/FONT]

According to you works of the law means Levitical law.

So then according to Romans 3:31 we are establishing the Levitical law by faith, if we continue in your error.

It makes no sense and it is error. Hizi agrees with me that it makes no sense and it is error. ask him.


So if you agree with Hizi, and with me, then works of the law cannot mean ONLY the levitical law. But if you disagree then you disagree with Hizi too.