Paul the Liar?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

joefizz

Guest
#21
#21
notmyown said:
so what is your point? to establish Paul personally as a liar? to what purpose?

what's the end game here?
Click to expand...
The problem is that the OP,"thinks" they have made some point,but they haven't,and just deflecting because the individual expects "us" to "figure them out".
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#22
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#22
notmyown said:
so what is your point? to establish Paul personally as a liar? to what purpose?

what's the end game here?
Click to expand...
Not like your thinking. Did you read the op; in particular the citations provided at the end? The citations are clear. My commentary can be confusing because there is a lot there. But I know it can be understood if one takes the time to study it. I have several people else where who see it.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#23
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#23
lightbearer said:
Not like your thinking. Did you read the op; in particular the citations provided at the end? The citations are clear. My commentary can be confusing because there is a lot there. But I know it can be understood if one takes the time to study it. I have several people else where who see it.
Click to expand...
Actually, I read it and still I am not sure what you want to say.

Say it clearly.
 
notmyown

notmyown

Senior Member
#24
May 26, 2016
4,756
1,162
113
#24
lightbearer said:
Not like your thinking. Did you read the op; in particular the citations provided at the end? The citations are clear. My commentary can be confusing because there is a lot there. But I know it can be understood if one takes the time to study it. I have several people else where who see it.
Click to expand...
thank you, i did read it. i'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but there are others here much more gifted than i.

you may want to consider, though, that your point isn't being well understood because it was poorly expressed?

if it's 'not like you're thinking', what is it? i haven't been in this forum enough lately to know you yet.
 
Muzungu256

Muzungu256

Banned
#26
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
47
0
#26
im glad to hear im not the only one who didnt overstand it u see............
sekkluud mon this is confusing
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#27
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#27
lightbearer said:
So read it again please. It is not an easy study. If you are having issues with a specific commen; ask and I will try to clarify.
The commentaries supplied should help also.
Click to expand...
Since you've had so much trouble conveying your point in the OP it is probable you really do not grasp it yourself. Fair enough?
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#28
#28
notmyown said:
thank you, i did read it. i'm not the brightest bulb in the box, but there are others here much more gifted than i.

you may want to consider, though, that your point isn't being well understood because it was poorly expressed?

if it's 'not like you're thinking', what is it? i haven't been in this forum enough lately to know you yet.
Click to expand...
Yeah,that's the only "point" around here,understanding in your head makes sense to you,but putting it into actual words is quite different,posting a slew of scriptures and citations is no way to establish "a point" it's just cutting and pasting so to speak,you must "communicate" by stating words like,"so from this can we know paul is a liar"? or "what can one learn from these passages"? or even "was paul speaking plainly or metaphorically"? if there is no point by making sort of a run on sentence then noone will understand one's "thoughts" on a subject.
 
WineRose

WineRose

Senior Member
#30
Jan 3, 2017
3,631
265
83
Row A, Column 9
#30
...I really should stop venturing into threads like this, huh?

Anyway, to the OP, welcome to CC, I guess.
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#31
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#31
notmyown said:
thank you, i did read it..
Click to expand...
I am sure you are brighter than you are giving yourself credit. Thank you for being polite. I see some are not gifted in this.
So The post is a bible study. It must be studied. It shows all the connections to prove the point that those (Paul included) who where living unfaithful even though they were given the Word of GOD to share are liars because of the poor example they were putting forth. The liars to which Paul refers to; he himself includes himself due to the shortcomings he knows that are or were in his own life. The Lie Paul is stating in verse 7 is his unfaithful living.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#32
#32
WineRose said:
...I really should stop venturing into threads like this, huh?

Anyway, to the OP, welcome to CC, I guess.
Click to expand...
Yeah at least that "makes sense" to say,very nice winerose.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#35
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#35
Romans 3:4-5
[FONT=&quot]4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

What comes after is Paul speaking as if he wasn't made Righteous by faith in Christ.

Romans 3:6-10
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Men are without hope of righteousness when relying on their own strength and understanding.

But we do have hope. Its just not in ourselves.

Romans 3:21-26
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Pauls "lie" was in pretending for a second that he was like everyone else, without hope in the world, to prove a point.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#36
#36
lightbearer said:
Could you put me on your ignore list.
Click to expand...
funny,sorry to disappoint you but I don't put "anyone" on ignore,and this "deflectiveness" of yours is no way to "hold a bible study" in bible study you are to "communicate with everyone" in an "unstandable manner" if only "you" understand what you are trying to say,then everyone gets confused making the bible study wasteful.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
#37
lightbearer said:
I am sure you are brighter than you are giving yourself credit. Thank you for being polite. I see some are not gifted in this.
So The post is a bible study. It must be studied. It shows all the connections to prove the point that those (Paul included) who where living unfaithful even though they were given the Word of GOD to share are liars because of the poor example they were putting forth. The liars to which Paul refers to; he himself includes himself due to the shortcomings he knows that are or were in his own life. The Lie Paul is stating in verse 7 is his unfaithful living.
Click to expand...
Unfaithful living?

2 Cor 11: [FONT=&quot]Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. [/FONT]23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, inperils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, inperils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?[FONT=&quot]30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity. 31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 In Damascus the governor, under Aretas the king, was guarding the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desiring to arrest me; 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped from his hands.

I wish I had half the faith as paul did. If we all had this, we would be so much better embassadors of our living God. [/FONT]
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#38
#38
Grandpa said:
Romans 3:4-5
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

What comes after is Paul speaking as if he wasn't made Righteous by faith in Christ.

Romans 3:6-10

6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Men are without hope of righteousness when relying on their own strength and understanding.

But we do have hope. Its just not in ourselves.

Romans 3:21-26

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Pauls "lie" was in pretending for a second that he was like everyone else, without hope in the world, to prove a point.
Click to expand...
Now this is an "example" of a post conveyed understandably,you post scripture,and then at the end convey your point in a "conclusion",whether true or not,the point is that you "get your message across",Paul understood this as well,often "speaking as others" in order to "make sense" just like how he preferred not to speak in tongues because he found it better to speak in a more equally understandable manner.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#39
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#39
lightbearer said:
No. It is understood elsewhere. So.....
Click to expand...
You had too many weird run-on sentences that didn't have any cohesive meaning in the OP.

Try making a point and then explaining it in sentences that don't have half extra thoughts contained in parantheses. That might help.

Are you just afraid to come out and say plainly what you think Pauls lie is???

That is what it seems like with the confusing way you wrote it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.