Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ

machew · Jun 28, 2010

As you probably already know, I don't agree with this interpretation of scriptures. It says that when the perfect comes, which can only mean Jesus the definition of Love(in context), these things will no longer have a use because we will be with our King 24/7. The gifts are to edifying ourselves and each other until His return. This is what this section of scripture is talking about.

I suppose that my biggest beef with this particular branch of theology is that it invalidates many people's walks with God. People who are saved, and have experienced these manifestations now have to deal with people in the body saying that these clear supernatural manifestations are invalid. For example my friend who was healed of cancer, now faces someone who says that God doesn't heal. So who did heal her? The devil? So to say that they were lying or of the devil is in my opinion dangerous, because if it is God, and your interpretation is wrong, you are invalidating something that God is doing. This is bordering on blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I am not accusing of this because I believe your heart is sincere in wanting to follow God whole-heartedly, but I am just saying....

Lots of people have experienced supernatural manifestation today that are in the Bible. I realize there are some who fake it to draw attention to themselves, but the abuse of a few churches shouldn't make us create a theology that shuts down a whole aspect and manifestation of God that Jesus commanded us to manifest in Matthew and that Paul highly encourages us to pursue in his letters.

In Love,

Machew

VW · Jun 28, 2010

When Paul said that He spoke in tongues more than all of them, what was he saying?

Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

Was Paul saying that he wished that no one spoke in tongues? The exact opposite. Praying in tongues is for one's own edification, building up in God. Prophecy is for the edification of the church, for building her up in God.

Paul writes later in this passage that if one prays in a tongue, that their spirit prays.

The whole point is that all things are to be done for edification, for the building up of the body into Christ. And this work is the work of the Spirit, He is the One who is building us up in Christ.

But as we go a little further in this passage, we find the famous verse about God not being God of confusion. And what is Paul writing about when he writes this? About the way that we prophecy when gathered together.

Wonder how many local bodies practice this? Prophecy in the church?

greatkraw · Jun 28, 2010

studentofgod said:

I agree with what you say

are you sayikng that one does NOT receive the Holy Spirit at salvation?

We are sealed with God's Holy spirit against the day of redemption

this cannot be undone

greatkraw · Jun 28, 2010

VW said:

When Paul said that He spoke in tongues more than all of them, what was he saying?

Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation. One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

Was Paul saying that he wished that no one spoke in tongues? The exact opposite. Praying in tongues is for one's own edification, building up in God. Prophecy is for the edification of the church, for building her up in God.

Paul writes later in this passage that if one prays in a tongue, that their spirit prays.

The whole point is that all things are to be done for edification, for the building up of the body into Christ. And this work is the work of the Spirit, He is the One who is building us up in Christ.

But as we go a little further in this passage, we find the famous verse about God not being God of confusion. And what is Paul writing about when he writes this? About the way that we prophecy when gathered together.

Wonder how many local bodies practice this? Prophecy in the church?

Paul belittled the gift of tongues and the way the Corinthians were abusing the temporary gift

So VW, how do you know you are saved?

greatkraw · Jun 28, 2010

machew said:

As you probably already know, I don't agree with this interpretation of scriptures. It says that when the perfect comes, which can only mean Jesus the definition of Love(in context), these things will no longer have a use because we will be with our King 24/7. The gifts are to edifying ourselves and each other until His return. This is what this section of scripture is talking about.

I suppose that my biggest beef with this particular branch of theology is that it invalidates many people's walks with God. People who are saved, and have experienced these manifestations now have to deal with people in the body saying that these clear supernatural manifestations are invalid. For example my friend who was healed of cancer, now faces someone who says that God doesn't heal. So who did heal her? The devil? So to say that they were lying or of the devil is in my opinion dangerous, because if it is God, and your interpretation is wrong, you are invalidating something that God is doing. This is bordering on blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I am not accusing of this because I believe your heart is sincere in wanting to follow God whole-heartedly, but I am just saying....

Lots of people have experienced supernatural manifestation today that are in the Bible. I realize there are some who fake it to draw attention to themselves, but the abuse of a few churches shouldn't make us create a theology that shuts down a whole aspect and manifestation of God that Jesus commanded us to manifest in Matthew and that Paul highly encourages us to pursue in his letters.

In Love,

Machew

I can tell I am onto a sore point of theology when....

PEOPLE MISREPRESENT ME

... I defy you to show any post I have ever put on this forum saying God cannot heal!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are supposed to walk by faith.

So many are walking by site and allowing themselves to be deceived.

studentofgod · Jun 28, 2010

greatkraw said:

I'm saying that revieng the holy ghost does not necessaril mean you have completed gods plan that he has for salvation the ex John 3:5 acts 19

greatkraw · Jun 28, 2010

are you saying you can have received the Holy Spirit and still not be saved????????????????????????????????

studentofgod · Jun 28, 2010

Ok you can recieve the holy ghost and not be baptized it happened in acts now you must be born of the spirit and water to enter into the kingdom of God I'm not saying anything but the book of John makes it pretty clear possibly you think that verse means somthing else

greatkraw · Jun 28, 2010

studentofgod said:

so you are saying no salvation without getting dunked in water???

Dmurray · Jun 28, 2010

greatkraw said:

We must repent, be baptized in Jesus' name, and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost in order to be saved

According to Acts 2:38

Jesus also said in John 3:5 "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he CAN NOT enter the Kingdom of God"

Romans 6 says:

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Now see how this word baptize comes up so much?
The Greek definition of Baptize is this:
Via Strongs Concordance

G911 says:

Now if you would like to ridicule Jesus' command to Baptize everyone by calling baptism being " dunked in water" Then you can go right ahead.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them
There is that word again.

The Bible clearly states that we can be born of the Spirit without being born of the water as in Acts 10:44-48

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

VW · Jun 28, 2010

greatkraw said:

What? Paul belittled the gift of tongues? Where does that come from?

I know that I am saved because I have fellowship with God, through Jesus Christ. I know that I am saved because I am lead by the Spirit, when I listen to Him. I don't listen all the time, but I try to listen better today than I did yesterday. I know that I am saved because I have love for those who are in Christ, and God moves my heart for those who are not saved.

How do you know that you are saved?

livingbygrace · Jun 28, 2010

greatkraw said:

I asked someone this xpertaining to Cornelius and his household. They replied. You can be saved, but not born again. I din't understand that.

Of course water Baptism is important.

But

By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God.

People often even today fixate on the ritual. God will always look at the heart. If someone didn't get baptised once they had been saved, we may question why not? But it is in our hearts we are justified. If we come before God through His Son in sincere repentance of our sins and ask Christ into our lives as Lord and Saviour, we are saved. I am positive that is enough at that point for God

Disciple- · Jun 28, 2010

Was Jesus' death on the cross not sufficient for our salvation? Some of you seem to think so. Baptism is not required for salvation, to say this is an attack on Messiah's death and resurruction.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Romans 10:9

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9

"They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."
Acts 16:31

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life."
Titus 3:5-7

"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." 1Cor1:17

VW · Jun 28, 2010

I know of only one person who has said that water baptism is required for salvation. Most of us have been talking about baptism in the Holy Spirit. And while this baptism is also not required for salvation, it is still very, very important.

livingbygrace · Jun 29, 2010

Concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was brought up in a church that fully believed in it. We were given the impression that when we were baptised in the Spirit it would be like a ten ton truck hitting us, or something similar. We would be almost swept off our feet.

I remember going to youth camps in the summer. I would sit on a wooden bench in the front row while someone would lay their hands on my head. I braced myself for this experiance, but nothing happened. Some were told they were not yet ready to receive it(not Biblical) In the end I figured I was not good enough to receive it(again, not Biblical Gal3) I became disheartened.

To cut a long story short, years later after I had left and returned t5o God, I read a book about a man who wqas prayed with to receive the Baptism. Afetr the person prayed with him, he felt nothing. The person asked him if there were any strange sounding words in his mind. He thought for a minute. There were some jumbled up words in his mind, but he thought it was just his imagination. But he admitted this to the woman. She asked him if in faith he would speak these words ouut loud. He felt a fool but did so. Foir a few minutes it was as if he was talking gibberish, but he persevered and soon the words flowed from his mouth.

So I went to my bedromm and repeated what had worked for4 him. It probably took longer than a few minutes for me but I too was baptised in the H9oly Spirit. I found out we all receive differently. It doesn't have to be some huge emotional experioance, and I also learnt a lesson in faith

A while later a well known minister confirmed to me I was indeed baptised in the Spirit. It wasnt my imagination. The devil will try and play tricks with us. I think it is fair to say that if we have the faith to ask and believe God must act. But will we believe before we see the evidence, many have and praised God for it

loveschild · Jun 29, 2010

I repeat.....

You don't always speak in tongues right away. Some do some don't. Be very careful of the ones who are trying to tell you there are no tongues. They try and cut the books of Acts right out of the bible. The book of Acts makes it very clear that yes speaking in tongues looks wierd. It looked so wierd that way back then they started saying they looked drunk.

The book is your guide so believe what is in the book and not people who push the Holy Spirit out and call his book a lie.

greatkraw · Jun 29, 2010

livingbygrace said:

Concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was brought up in a church that fully believed in it. We were given the impression that when we were baptised in the Spirit it would be like a ten ton truck hitting us, or something similar. We would be almost swept off our feet.

I remember going to youth camps in the summer. I would sit on a wooden bench in the front row while someone would lay their hands on my head. I braced myself for this experiance, but nothing happened. Some were told they were not yet ready to receive it(not Biblical) In the end I figured I was not good enough to receive it(again, not Biblical Gal3) I became disheartened.

To cut a long story short, years later after I had left and returned t5o God, I read a book about a man who wqas prayed with to receive the Baptism. Afetr the person prayed with him, he felt nothing. The person asked him if there were any strange sounding words in his mind. He thought for a minute. There were some jumbled up words in his mind, but he thought it was just his imagination. But he admitted this to the woman. She asked him if in faith he would speak these words ouut loud. He felt a fool but did so. Foir a few minutes it was as if he was talking gibberish, but he persevered and soon the words flowed from his mouth.

So I went to my bedromm and repeated what had worked for4 him. It probably took longer than a few minutes for me but I too was baptised in the H9oly Spirit. I found out we all receive differently. It doesn't have to be some huge emotional experioance, and I also learnt a lesson in faith

A while later a well known minister confirmed to me I was indeed baptised in the Spirit. It wasnt my imagination. The devil will try and play tricks with us. I think it is fair to say that if we have the faith to ask and believe God must act. But will we believe before we see the evidence, many have and praised God for it

God is not the author of confusion

ed · Jun 29, 2010

VW said:

Hi VW,
I believe that Baptism by water is very important. Romans 6:3 NIV " Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."
Romans 7:6 " But now by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit,and not in the old way of the written code."
1 Peter 3:21 NIV (speaking of Noah) "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God.
Wasn't John the Baptist called by Jesus the greatest man born of woman. And John baptized with water.
Can you explain your position to me so that I may understand?
thanks
love
edwin.

Redeemed79 · Jun 29, 2010

VW
Thankyou.

I feel for those who believe Acts is finished considering it was the start of the church age....if that has finished i missed the memo. and GreatKraw that was really unecessary to write that at the end of that guys post who was seeking and said he received tongues.
It was an inane post. He wasnt confused in the way you've used the word...unless when you came to Christ you knew it all straight away...If so congratulations...If not.....confused???? no I wouldnt have called you that I wouldve called you seeking......

VW · Jun 29, 2010

ed said:

Water baptism is symbolic of our baptism into Jesus Christ. It is an outward show of what has actually happened to us spiritually. We have put on Christ Jesus, if we have been baptized into the Spirit.

I have been water baptized, and I have been baptized in the Spirit. Both are important, but I would say that baptism in the Spirit is more so than water baptism. But, neither is necessary for salvation, only to be born of the Spirit, by believing in Jesus Christ, in His resurrection, and confessing Him as Lord. The birth of the Spirit is grace.

I have heard it said that born of water is water baptism, but I don't believe this is how Jesus meant His words to Nicodemous that night. Nicodemous asked Jesus how a man could be born again, that he could not enter the womb and come out again. Our first birth is in the flesh. Our second birth is of the Spirit.

I hope that this helps,
In Christ,
vic

Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ

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