GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[LoveGodForever]

Do we conclude there is no questions worded as asked to prove one a Christian?

If not then please retract your questions that have yet to be supported as the must answer yes or you are not a Christian!

I Believe Heavenly Father and our Lord and Saviour.. Father and Son are One!

Assess a Believer how the Bible describes by all means!! I gave two examples... but fact is that the Lord taught the Sabbath was to be Kept.. and if you think answering yes or no to a question will make you a believer rather than Believing the Lord’s Testament above all else.. then something is fundamentally wrong.

Hi LM1,

Good questions, there is a few scriptures that determine if someone is from God or not. Let's have a look..............

How to know those that are not from God........

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

links to........

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

links to.......

1 John 3
6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Those that are from God.......

1 John 3
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

links to.........

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15, For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whore mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

Hope this is useful.... It is our Faith that works by LOVE to him who LOVES us that frees us to LOVE that we follow HIM who bares witness with our spirit that we are the sons and daughters of God.

May God bless you as you continue in His Word.

 

[Beez]

^^^ This is still more readable ^^^
Or have my eyes adjusted?

I like it, because it seems not to stifle your style.

 

[lightbearer]

valiant,

OK, thanks.

BTW, you suggested that "if He had not offered sacrifices the Pharisees would have been on to Him like a ton of bricks". I wonder if that same logic would apply to His attitude with regard to the Levitical dietary rules?

What attitude was that rstrats?

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by rstrats

valiant,

OK, thanks.

BTW, you suggested that "if He had not offered sacrifices the Pharisees would have been on to Him like a ton of bricks". I wonder if that same logic would apply to His attitude with regard to the Levitical dietary rules?

Jesus clearly followed the Pharisaic rule of cleansing as well as the strict dietary rules, of Leviticus. They never pointed a finger at Him. He completely fulfilled the Law and more.

 

[valiant]

Hi LM1,

Good questions, there is a few scriptures that determine if someone is from God or not. Let's have a look..............

How to know those that are not from God........

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

links to........

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

links to.......

1 John 3
6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Those that are from God.......

1 John 3
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

links to.........

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15, For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whore mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

Hope this is useful.... It is our Faith that works by LOVE to him who LOVES us that frees us to LOVE that we follow HIM who bares witness with our spirit that we are the sons and daughters of God.

May God bless you as you continue in His Word.

But these are the commandments of God to all men, NOT the ten words in the covenant

 

[LoveGodForever]

^^^ This is still more readable ^^^
Or have my eyes adjusted? I like it, because it seems not to stifle your style.

Hi Beez,

Thank you very much for the feedback I was trying to play around a bit by spreading the text out a bit and using reds for highlights with bold black as a minor highlight. So happy it is helping your reading

 

[rstrats]

lightbearer,
re: "What attitude was that rstrats?"


In retrospect that was probably a poor choice of word to convey the gist of my question. Valiant was positing that if the Messiah hadn't been offering sacrifices, that the Pharisees would have been adding that to their list of complaints. That triggered an off topic similar thought with regard to the Messiah and the unclean animal laws. If He had been advocating a change in the law, would the Pharisees have been adding that to their list of accusations?

 

[lightbearer]

lightbearer,
re: "What attitude was that rstrats?"


In retrospect that was probably a poor choice of word to convey the gist of my question. Valiant was positing that if the Messiah hadn't been offering sacrifices, that the Pharisees would have been adding that to their list of complaints. That triggered an off topic similar thought with regard to the Messiah and the unclean animal laws. If He had been advocating a change in the law, would the Pharisees have been adding that to their list of accusations?

Thank you my friend. Happy Sabbath!

 

[Studyman]

Jesus clearly followed the Pharisaic rule of cleansing as well as the strict dietary rules, of Leviticus. They never pointed a finger at Him. He completely fulfilled the Law and more.

Jesus healed and forgave many people, can you show one instance where He sprinkled one drop of Blood according to the LP? He sent a few of those He healed as a witness against them, but Jesus did not forgive people by the "works of the Levitical Priesthood".

 

[Snoozy]

how many lost their salvation by working or going to the store on the sabbath? weekly count down time!

i got a question about sunday worship being the mark of the beast. how exactly does not going to church on sunday prevent someone from buying and selling?
dont make no sense. if anything u save money. u dont need to tithe

 

[valiant]

lightbearer,
re: "What attitude was that rstrats?"


In retrospect that was probably a poor choice of word to convey the gist of my question. Valiant was positing that if the Messiah hadn't been offering sacrifices, that the Pharisees would have been adding that to their list of complaints. That triggered an off topic similar thought with regard to the Messiah and the unclean animal laws.

He undoubtedly kept them as a Jew.

If He had been advocating a change in the law, would the Pharisees have been adding that to their list of accusations?

They crucified Him because in their eyes He sought to criticise their interpretation of the law. For example He 'made all meats clean' (Mark 7.19).

 

[Beez]

Admittedly, I have not been reading along; I've read only the shorter and more easily-read posts. (Sight problems.) I also know that most of us have already made up our minds re what we believe about Sabbath.

Regarding Colossians 2.14-17

So, if I may ask (and please: keeping your answers short! ) what do you believe is the certificate of debt that was nailed to the cross? (a) your sinful condition? (b) Law? (c) law?

What do you believe verse 16 intends? (a) "Do what you choose; others have no right to judge you in these things. (b) Live in such a way that will keep others from thinking they have a right to judge you.

Regarding verse 17, the word mere has been added in, diminishing the word shadow, as it does in other passages. They are, according to the verse, shadows of our L-RD, and a shadow cannot exist without the substance being present, an integral part, an evident part, the most important part and is always present with the shadow.

Just curious. I am not willing to argue.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

Jesus clearly followed the Pharisaic rule of cleansing as well as the strict dietary rules, of Leviticus. They never pointed a finger at Him. He completely fulfilled the Law and more.

Jesus healed and forgave many people, can you show one instance where He sprinkled one drop of Blood according to the LP? He sent a few of those He healed as a witness against them, but Jesus did not forgive people by the "works of the Levitical Priesthood".

Mark 14.12-16 Shows that the disciples offered a Passover lamb 'for us' (including Jesus). It was essential if He was to eat the Passover.

 

[rstrats]

Beez,
re: "What do you believe verse 16 intends? (a) "Do what you choose; others have no right to judge you in these things. (b) Live in such a way that will keep others from thinking they have a right to judge you.

Or (c) - Don't let anyone judge you...but the body of Christ (which is the Church).

 

[Studyman]

Mark 14.12-16 Shows that the disciples offered a Passover lamb 'for us' (including Jesus). It was essential if He was to eat the Passover.

12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Neither Jesus, nor His Disciples "killed the Passover Lamb" but the Levitical Priests as the Law perscribed. The Disciples were not qualified by the "LAW" to "kill" the Lamb" and offer it for anybody. Jesus was qualified, but He didn't Kill the Lamb either. He was the Lamb, that is the whole point.

22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them,
This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Did Jesus cut a piece of the Passover Lamb and offer the meat to the Disciples? No Valiant. The Bible doesn't teach that.

Matt. 26:18 And he said,
Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Not in the Temple with the Levite Priests as was their custom.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, (Not Lamb) and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Are you preaching there was lamb's blood in the cup?

The preaching that the Disciples "Killed the Passover Lamb" and offered it for "for us" and "for Jesus" is not true according to the Bible.

 

[Studyman]

Jesus healed and forgave many people, can you show one instance where He sprinkled one drop of Blood according to the LP? He sent a few of those He healed as a witness against them, but Jesus did not forgive people by the "works of the Levitical Priesthood".

Let me clarify; Jesus followed the Spiritual intent of the Levitical Priesthood, He offered Blood for the sin's of the People, but it was His Blood, not the blood of goats. He didn't follow the Mainstream Preachers version of the LP, He followed God's.

 

[valiant]

12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Neither Jesus, nor His Disciples "killed the Passover Lamb" but the Levitical Priests as the Law perscribed. The Disciples were not qualified by the "LAW" to "kill" the Lamb" and offer it for anybody. Jesus was qualified, but He didn't Kill the Lamb either. He was the Lamb, that is the whole point.

The priests actually offered all sacrifices on behalf of the people. Jesus while on earth was not qualified. Only the priests were qualified,.

22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them,
This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

He had taken many Passovers before this. This occurred at the final Passover.

Did Jesus cut a piece of the Passover Lamb and offer the meat to the Disciples?

who would have done it then at the previous Passovers they kept together?

No Valiant. The Bible doesn't teach that.

Its common sense.

Matt. 26:18 And he said,
Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Every Jew kept the Passover at his house. Those who came to Jerusalem we to the house of a relative or friend,

Not in the Temple with the Levite Priests as was their custom.

The custom was that the Lamb was offered in the Temple and then taken home to be eaten. All who partook of it had had the Lamb offered for them.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, (Not Lamb) and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

This was AFTER they had partaken of the lamb,

Are you preaching there was lamb's blood in the cup?

No, the lamb was partaken of first,

The preaching that the Disciples "Killed the Passover Lamb" and offered it for "for us" and "for Jesus" is not true according to the Bible.

The priest slew the lamb on behalf of the offerors. as with all sacrifices.

You are clutching at straws

 

[Studyman]

The priests actually offered all sacrifices on behalf of the people. Jesus while on earth was not qualified. Only the priests were qualified,.



He had taken many Passovers before this. This occurred at the final Passover.


who would have done it then at the previous Passovers they kept together?



Its common sense.



Every Jew kept the Passover at his house. Those who came to Jerusalem we to the house of a relative or friend,




The custom was that the Lamb was offered in the Temple and then taken home to be eaten. All who partook of it had had the Lamb offered for them.



This was AFTER they had partaken of the lamb,



No, the lamb was partaken of first,



The priest slew the lamb on behalf of the offerors. as with all sacrifices.

You are clutching at straws

You said:

Mark 14.12-16 Shows that the disciples offered a Passover lamb 'for us' (including Jesus). It was essential if He was to eat the Passover.

I am glad you corrected yourself.

God's/Jesus Holy Days were not part of the Levitical Priesthood.

Lev. 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

These are not the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins that the Levites were instructed to perform. Passover was a law before the Levites were appointed to the Priesthood.


Ex. 12: 11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S Passover.

Numbers 1: 50 But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.

You try and tie the Holy Days to the Levitical Priesthood, they are separate. We still observe God's Passover as instructed, we do not perform Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" that the Jews plagued Paul with through out his ministry.

Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Abraham knew about Passover.

Gen. 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

But Abraham didn't have the Levitical Priesthood as Levi wasn't even born yet.

Different Separate Laws.

 

[Beez]

Admittedly, I have not been reading along; I've read only the shorter and more easily-read posts. (Sight problems.) I also know that most of us have already made up our minds re what we believe about Sabbath.

Regarding Colossians 2.14-17

So, if I may ask (and please: keeping your answers short! ) what do you believe is the certificate of debt that was nailed to the cross? (a) your sinful condition? (b) Law? (c) law?

What do you believe verse 16 intends? (a) "Do what you choose; others have no right to judge you in these things. (b) Live in such a way that will keep others from thinking they have a right to judge you.

Regarding verse 17, the word mere has been added in, diminishing the word shadow, as it does in other passages. They are, according to the verse, shadows of our L-RD, and a shadow cannot exist without the substance being present, an integral part, an evident part, the most important part and is always present with the shadow.

Just curious. I am not willing to argue.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Admittedly, I have not been reading along; I've read only the shorter and more easily-read posts. (Sight problems.) I also know that most of us have already made up our minds re what we believe about Sabbath.

Regarding Colossians 2.14-17

So, if I may ask (and please: keeping your answers short! ) what do you believe is the certificate of debt that was nailed to the cross? (a) your sinful condition? (b) Law? (c) law?

What do you believe verse 16 intends? (a) "Do what you choose; others have no right to judge you in these things. (b) Live in such a way that will keep others from thinking they have a right to judge you.

Regarding verse 17, the word mere has been added in, diminishing the word shadow, as it does in other passages. They are, according to the verse, shadows of our L-RD, and a shadow cannot exist without the substance being present, an integral part, an evident part, the most important part and is always present with the shadow.

Just curious. I am not willing to argue.

Hello Beez,

Good questions and this is what the OP is discussing in more detail linking Old and New Testament scriptures. Sorry you were not able to read it. I will try and help out with a summarized version.

In order to answer your questions you will need to have a correct understanding of what the Old Covenant is and what the New Covenant is. Many of the scriptures for what I am sharing now are already in the OP and other posts of this thread, but very simply stated the key laws of the Old Covenant included;

(1) God's Law (10 commandments) and the
(2) Mosaic laws for remission of sin.

Both God's Law which was the work of God written by God on two tables of stone and the Mosaic laws for remission of sin written in the book of the law by Moses had a different purpose and role under the Old Covenant.

(1) God's LAW (10 commandments had the same role it always had that is to give God's people a knowledge of good and evil; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is the standard of God's character, the Old and NEW Covenants and the judgement to come. It made nothing perfect but is FOREVER (Eccl 3:14)

(2) Mosaic laws for remission of sin. These included the Levitical priesthood, the sacrificial system for SIN offerings and atonement, ceremonial laws of the Sanctuary services, monthly and many of the annual festivals. These laws were for the remission and forgiveness of sin should someone break God's Law (10 commandments). These are were the Shadows pointing to Jesus as highlighted in the OP with the scriptures linking the Old Testament scriptures with the New Testament scriptures...

What was nailed to the cross?

1. Of course our SIN. The animal sacrifices were pointing to Jesus as the lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world (John 1:29). The animal sacrificial system and offerings for remission of sin all pointed forward to the coming of the Messiah and that as a sinless offering would die for the sins of the world.

2. The Mosaic laws for remission of sin. Much of the scriptures are in the OP. Let's look at the GREEK words for blotting out the handwriting of ordinances used in Col 2:14

Colossians 2:14
Let’s start with the context of Colossians 2:16-17. The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out (G1813; ἐξαλείφω; exaleiphō; ex-al-i'-fo; means to obliterate; erase; wipe away) the handwriting of ordinances which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the cross.

The next question we need to consider is what is the handwriting of ordinances that are to be erased and nailed to the cross?

The Greek words used here is handwriting G5498 χειρόγραφον; cheirographon; which means; hand written legal document which is combined with ordinance G1378 δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; which means; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law: - decree;

The Greek meaning of handwriting of ordinances in V14 is a hand written legal document or book of civil, ceremonial and ecclesiastical laws. It is the Mosaic laws for remission of sin that are referred to in verse 14 that have been erased and are nailed to the cross.

This is further symbolized by the temple vale of the temple being torn in two at the death of Jesus highlighting that all the shadows pointing to Jesus and his role as our great high priest have now been fulfilled in Jesus. So just as those in the Old Covenant were to look forward to the coming of the Messiah with their Shadow laws we look back to the life, death, resurrection and new role of Jesus as our great high Priest who minsters on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary made without hands in the New Covenant.

Hope this help and may God bless you always as you continue in His Word.