Paul's testimony in chapter 7 of Romans

[Studyman]

Who is in bondage to sin or teaching it? You people and your strawman arguments, do you think these claims support your view?

I pray you come out of bondage, because your in bondage to your religion. So much so you can lie about others and it does not even affect your conscious. Has it been seared? (I know mine was for years when I was just like you)

The Jews were not held in bondage to God's Instructions, they were held in bondage to their own traditions and doctrines that they created, which is a sin to do. They had created their own version of God, or as Paul tells it, "23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Men create images of God and they create their own High Days, while at the same time transgressing God's Commandments by these traditions. All examples in the Bible of men who did such wickedness were rejected by God/Jesus if they didn't stop when their "deeds" were exposed.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, nor am I suggesting that you are of those who practice iniquity in this way.

I'm just making a statement that factually represents the problems of the mainstream preachers of Jesus' time, according to Him and Paul, and I see the same types of behavior in religions today.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Jews were not held in bondage to God's Instructions, they were held in bondage to their own traditions and doctrines that they created, which is a sin to do. They had created their own version of God, or as Paul tells it, "23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Men create images of God and they create their own High Days, while at the same time transgressing God's Commandments by these traditions. All examples in the Bible of men who did such wickedness were rejected by God/Jesus if they didn't stop when their "deeds" were exposed.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, nor am I suggesting that you are of those who practice iniquity in this way.

I'm just making a statement that factually represents the problems of the mainstream preachers of Jesus' time, according to Him and Paul, and I see the same types of behavior in religions today.

Yes we know your view, a view that no one else holds, and I have already made up my mind I refuse to even discuss it anymore.

To the rest as for being in bondage, The law requires perfection. You are held in bondage if you place yourself under law (yes, even mosaic law) because perfection is what you must attain, and even if you do not think perfection is the requirment (water down the law) you are still under bondage because you still have to attain what level you think is required, falling below that level would mean destruction. It does not matter what law you use.

 

[NayborBear]

So when we have the blinders taken off we can clearly see that Paul is stating that He has been freed from the Law of sin and Death. His flesh no longer had dominion over him. He was no longer doing the things that he would not. He was experiencing the victory over the flesh through Christ Jesus.

So the common teaching from chapter seven in Romans is heresy. That Paul was continuing in sin because he could not help himself is a direct slap in the face to all that Christ did for us, and to all that Paul shared in and of the Gospel.

Allow me, if you would, kind sir, in expounding, yes, even, expanding upon a "more fuller definition", of that which Paul is talking ABOUT! Albeit, in his alluding fashion/style, which, in all truthfulness, is how, "things Spiritual", Should be taught. In Paul's "style", He is what one might say, "bringing dots, CLOSER", so that those to whom he is speaking/teaching to, might be better able to connect them easier, as well as, and more importantly, correctly. In Paul's (And, our God's, by Way, of Jesus Christ our Lord n Savior) HOPE, that, somewhere, in the minds, and hearts, of his listener's, pupils, readers, that LIGHT, would come on, and they might "see" (the) What, Paul is actually trying to pass along to them.

That which Paul is alluding to, is the Curse, Lord God, placed upon Adam (flesh) as well as "eth Ha-Adam" (Spirit, and, the forever Holy Priesthood). From the moment, Adam ACCUSED God, for Eve. Like Adam would not, have eaten of the tree, if Eve hadn't have of? We may never know!

Acts-14: [SUP]22 [/SUP]Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

And THIS, my fine fellow furry friends, are the "works OF Faith", upon which we ALL shall be "graded" (judged) on!


(I dunno....Did a light come on?)

 

[Studyman]

Yes we know your view, a view that no one else holds, and I have already made up my mind I refuse to even discuss it anymore.

To the rest as for being in bondage, The law requires perfection. You are held in bondage if you place yourself under law (yes, even mosaic law) because perfection is what you must attain, and even if you do not think perfection is the requirment (water down the law) you are still under bondage because you still have to attain what level you think is required, falling below that level would mean destruction. It does not matter what law you use.

Fascinating response, exactly what part of my post is not true?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Fascinating response, exactly what part of my post is not true?

Since you have prove you do not understand what people say, It does not surprise me at all you would ask this.

 

[lightbearer]

This can be seen in three ways.

1. It is not in the origional (it is missing from most documents, in fact is is only foundin the KJV, and it is also repeated in vs 4, which is why most people think it was a scribal error

Hello,
Original? That is subjective. If you wish we can talk about this more.

Only the King James? Not so my friend.

Rom 8:1 (GUV) There is then now no condemnation to the ones who are (in) Christ Jesus, who are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (MLV) Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (TS2009) There is, then, now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah יהושע, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (CPDV) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who are not walking according to the flesh.

There is therefore no condemnation to those in Yeshua The Messiah who do not walk in the flesh.
(Rom 8:1 FCAB)


There are many more. Shall I continue?


The version you are reading from uses the Alexandrian Text. This Text has no reference to "who are not walking in the flesh". It does not have the most manuscripts. It has the least.

The Byzantine Text type has the most manuscripts. Which is probably why it is also called "The Majority Text". This Text does have who "are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.." The Latin Vulgate, the Peshitta agree with Majority Text, as do other ancient versions (Itala, Gothic, Armenian) and several early church fathers (4th cent.).

Here is some addition reading if you wish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_text-type

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hello,
Original? That is subjective. If you wish we can talk about this more.

Only the King James? Not so my friend.

Rom 8:1 (GUV) There is then now no condemnation to the ones who are (in) Christ Jesus, who are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (MLV) Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (TS2009) There is, then, now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah יהושע, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (CPDV) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who are not walking according to the flesh.

There is therefore no condemnation to those in Yeshua The Messiah who do not walk in the flesh.
(Rom 8:1 FCAB)


There are many more. Shall I continue?


The version you are reading from uses the Alexandrian Text. This Text has no reference to "who are not walking in the flesh". It does not have the most manuscripts. It has the least.

The Byzantine Text type has the most manuscripts. Which is probably why it is also called "The Majority Text". This Text does have who "are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.." The Latin Vulgate, the Peshitta agree with Majority Text, as do other ancient versions (Itala, Gothic, Armenian) and several early church fathers (4th cent.).

Here is some addition reading if you wish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_text-type

Your being dishonest, I said there was one of three possible views, and just gave it as one of them.

 

[lightbearer]

Your being dishonest,

The entire post you responded to is 100% true and easily verified. What are you talking about?

Originally Posted by lightbearer

Hello,
Original? That is subjective. If you wish we can talk about this more.

Only the King James? Not so my friend.

Rom 8:1 (GUV) There is then now no condemnation to the ones who are (in) Christ Jesus, who are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (MLV) Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (TS2009) There is, then, now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah יהושע, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (CPDV) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who are not walking according to the flesh.

There is therefore no condemnation to those in Yeshua The Messiah who do not walk in the flesh.
(Rom 8:1 FCAB)


There are many more. Shall I continue?


The version you are reading from uses the Alexandrian Text. This Text has no reference to "who are not walking in the flesh". It does not have the most manuscripts. It has the least.

The Byzantine Text type has the most manuscripts. Which is probably why it is also called "The Majority Text". This Text does have who "are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.." The Latin Vulgate, the Peshitta agree with Majority Text, as do other ancient versions (Itala, Gothic, Armenian) and several early church fathers (4th cent.).

Here is some addition reading if you wish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_text-type​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The entire post you responded to is 100% true and easily verified. What are you talking about?

You were being dishonest by saying I claimed what I said about that point was a fact. I never stated it as fact, I said it is one of three views. I never said they were MY VIEWS. In fact, they could not all be My view. I would be contradictory.

 

[lightbearer]

You were being dishonest by saying I claimed what I said about that point was a fact. I never stated it as fact, I said it is one of three views. I never said they were MY VIEWS. In fact, they could not all be My view. I would be contradictory.

I am not here to go round and round. I never stated you said anything was a fact. I responded to that part of the post. It was not true at all. So I posted the facts.

To be honest I used that part of your post to determine whether or not I was going to continue posting to you. I figured if you don't see the facts that were posted in that response there was no use posting anything else to you. The fact that you called me dishonest is quite telling really. So at this point I bid you a good night.

 

[preacher4truth]

Hello,
Original? That is subjective. If you wish we can talk about this more.

Your view is also subjective.

It's still in the context and properly placed:

Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And this is not true: "The version you are reading from uses the Alexandrian Text. This Text has no reference to "who are not walking in the flesh."

There is no changing of doctrine here, the wording is found further down, known as Romans 8:4, thus the reference is there contrary to your subjective, and false, teaching.

The accusation otherwise is merely a soundingboard for KJVO cultism to sound a false alarm and make false accusations, that lend toward sensationalism and conspiracy theories.

 

[preacher4truth]

To be honest I used that part of your post to determine whether or not I was going to continue posting to you. I figured if you don't see the facts that were posted in that response there was no use posting anything else to you. The fact that you called me dishonest is quite telling really. So at this point I bid you a good night.

The condescension and pretense...wow!

 

[lightbearer]

Your view is also subjective.

You mean the other view and yes it is all subjective.

However if you wish to share why you think the Alexandrian Text or Byzantine Text is superior I would love to here it.

I Feel so I believe and teach GOD is faithful and would not have left us without the Written Word all those years before the Alexandrian Text was discovered.

And this is not true: "The version you are reading from uses the Alexandrian Text. This Text has no reference to "who are not walking in the flesh."

Most modern translation use the Alexandrian.

There is no changing of doctrine here, the wording is found further down, known as Romans 8:4, thus the reference is there contrary to your subjective, and false, teaching.

More pronouns I see. Why not address the points of the opening posts you think are false doctrine and leave your comments about me out of it?

The accusation otherwise is merely a soundingboard for KJVO cultism to sound a false alarm and make false accusations, that lend toward sensationalism and conspiracy theories.

Your comment is unfounded. If anything I am a Pray, use a Greek and Hebrew Lexicon and an Interlinear while reading the Holy Writ onliest.

Have a nice evening.





I do not promote one translation over another. They all have translational errors.

T

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not here to go round and round. I never stated you said anything was a fact. I responded to that part of the post. It was not true at all. So I posted the facts.

To be honest I used that part of your post to determine whether or not I was going to continue posting to you. I figured if you don't see the facts that were posted in that response there was no use posting anything else to you. The fact that you called me dishonest is quite telling really. So at this point I bid you a good night.

Hello,
Original? That is subjective. If you wish we can talk about this more.

Only the King James? Not so my friend.

Rom 8:1 (GUV) There is then now no condemnation to the ones who are (in) Christ Jesus, who are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (MLV) Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (TS2009) There is, then, now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah יהושע, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 (CPDV) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who are not walking according to the flesh.

There is therefore no condemnation to those in Yeshua The Messiah who do not walk in the flesh.
(Rom 8:1 FCAB)


There are many more. Shall I continue?


The version you are reading from uses the Alexandrian Text. This Text has no reference to "who are not walking in the flesh". It does not have the most manuscripts. It has the least.

The Byzantine Text type has the most manuscripts. Which is probably why it is also called "The Majority Text". This Text does have who "are walking not (according to) flesh, (according to) the Spirit.." The Latin Vulgate, the Peshitta agree with Majority Text, as do other ancient versions (Itala, Gothic, Armenian) and several early church fathers (4th cent.).

Here is some addition reading if you wish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_text-type

Typical, you refuse to see what you really did and now are blameshifting to blame it on me,.

If you did not come at me with the bolded part. I could understand that maybe you were just trying to discuss one point, But no, You had to mock, by asking if you should continue, You had to mock by saying :not so my friend: as if it was my belief, then said we could talk about it more, as if you were trying to tell me I was wrong, and you were going to set me straight.,

I am not here to go around and around either, But I do get sick of people assuming things which are not true, and then backtracking when they are called out. What you call facts are just your opinions. I never even heard of the rest of those bibles, I have heard of the Byzantine text, or the majority text, and although it does have the most copies. It does not mean it is the correct one. You gave your view, And that is all youy did, What youy call “proof” is not proof,. Just your opinion. However, I had no desire to discuss those things, Because it was not part of my conversation, not to mention I did I say they were my belief, nor was it the context of what I was trying to say, and it would distract from the point I was trying to make.

I GAVE THREE VIEWS. And said THESE ARE THE POPULAR VIEWS OF THAT TEXT. That was it.

You were dishonest, and you still are. By refusing to acknowledge your were coming after me and in fact mocking me.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is like watching one of those real housewives shows. I'm not coming in here any more. I guess I'm just giving up and don't see any good in here. Its awful and ugly and can't help anyone. I don't know what else to say. God help us.

 

[Sagart]

=Sagart;3382103]—

Wow,



So then was Stephen murdered by this subset we were not told about? Or was he just murdered by the regular Jews?

Stephen was not murdered by the regenerate Jews who were members of the church in Rome; he was murdered by unregenerate Jews in Jerusalem.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Are these the Jews you say were trying to obey God with all their might?

Acts 21:10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Is this the particular sect of Jews who were trying with all their might to obey God, that we are told nothing about?

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

What Law would that be? God's Laws, or the traditions of the mainstream religion of that time?

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Are these the Jews who we are told nothing about, that try with all their might to obey God? Or are they still trying to defend their man made traditions as Jesus accused them of?

28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

What "LAW" said Gentiles couldn't turn to God? Are preachers who claim to believe in the Messiah, still promoting Jewish Customs Jesus exposed as from man and not from God? Where is the evidence they were trying with all their might to obey God. "Seek Me and Ye shall find Me". Are you saying these Jews were trying with all their Might to obey the Instructions of God, yet God rejected them?

Acts 14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.

Are these the Jews that believed? Are these those tortured souls that struggled with all their might to follow God's Commandments?

No, they were not regenerate Jews.

Gal. 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are these that certain "sect" of Jews who believed in Jesus and were trying with all their might to obey God?

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Jesus warned of "MANY" who would come in His Name and deceive people.

These comments are irrelevant and off topic.

Your preaching that there was some secret sect of folks who accepted the Messiah, but were "Trying with all their might to obey God" and therefore failed sounds really religious, but it doesn't reflect the Bible's teaching at all.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Would Zacharias know the Messiah when He saw Him?



That translation is kind of deceptive, the KJV= "So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;"

what does the Law of God say?

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I(Jesus) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

I don't believe there is any evidence in the Bible of a secret "Church of Rome", who we are told nothing about, who were trying with all their might to obey Jesus, the creator of His Commandments.

Please stop misrepresenting what I wrote in my post. I wrote,

“The man in Romans 7:14-25 is an unregenerate but devout Jew struggling with all his might to keep the Law, but miserably failing to do so.”

“The Bible tells us absolutely nothing about the Jews in the Church in Rome—and it is a particular subset of these Jews that Paul is especially ministering to in this part of his epistle. These Jews apparently believed that Jesus was the Messiah and desired to fellowship with other such Jews.”

That the church in Rome included both Jews and Gentiles is documented in both the Bible and in secular literature. In Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, he mentions two of the Jews by name, Prisca and Aquila, and he refers to them as his “fellow workers in Christ Jesus.” Moreover,

Paul’s letter to the Romans is full of the use of ethnic terms. In fact, no letter in the New Testament uses as many ethnic terms, or duplicates the frequency with which Paul uses such terms as Romans. A tabulation of the following words illustrates my point. The word “gentiles/nations” occurs 29 times in Romans; “circumsion/uncircumcision” occurs 15 times; “Jew” is found 11 times as is “Israel”; “Greek” is used 6 times; while “Israelites” occurs 2 times and “barbarians” once. This comes to a total of 75 ethnic references in Romans. Although Paul uses various ethnic designations, all of the words can be boiled down into two distinct groups of people: Jews and Greeks (or gentiles). This would be similar to an author today using ethnic designations such as “Afro-American,” “black,” “Caucasian,” and “white.” Although 4 different words are being used, only two groups of people are being described. Paul’s frequent usage of these ethnic terms suggests something about the population that made up the church in Rome in the first century, as well as potential reasons why he was writing to them. The following article seeks to fulfil a promise made last year in a post entitled, “Jews and Greeks in the New Testament.” I recommend reading that article first (or rereading it if it has been awhile) as it provides some necessary background for what I will be discussing here.​

The Church in Rome: Jews and Greeks - Bible Study With Randy

and,

Conclusion

Based on a study of relevant biblical and extra-biblical documents, it is generally agreed that non-apostolic Jewish Christians brought the faith of Christ to Rome in the early decades of the church. After generating both interest and controversy within the synagogues, Christianity was forced to reorganize in the wake of Claudius’s edict against the Jews. The resulting Gentile-dominated church that received Paul’s letter in the late 50’s met in small groups around the city of Rome but maintained communication and held onto a common identity and mission. Paul and Peter leave their mark on these believers, though they merely strengthen the work that had already begun to flourish in the capital city. Beyond these main points, scholars still differ on the exact timeline of the birth and growth of the Christian community, as well as on to what degree Roman reactions against Jewish instability stem from disagreements about Christ. When all is said though, the overall picture of the emergence of Christianity in Rome constitutes yet another significant example of God’s extraordinary work in the early church during the decades following Christ’s death and resurrection.


​

https://bible.org/article/origins-church-rome

Did Abraham "choose" to "Serve God's Laws"?

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Is there a single example of the Faithful who didn't "serve the Laws of God"?

If I am serving the Laws of God as He instructed,

"And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."

and not serving traditions and doctrines of religions I was born into, is there condemnation that awaits me? Is there any example in the entire Bible of a man "Trying with all their might and heart, to Love God, obey His Voice, cling unto Him for direction and instruction that was rejected by God because they fell in sin?

The answer is no. There is not one example of a man who strived with all his heart and soul to Love God and Follow His instructions over the traditions and doctrines of man that was condemned. NOT ONE.

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Romans 7 pretty much destroys the mainstream preaching that God's Laws are gone, or that we are free to judge His instructions and pick and choose which parts of his instruction we believe, and which parts we don't believe.

I don't think it is spiritually healthy to not consider all the scriptures Paul taught from, when trying to discern Paul.

These comments are irrelevant and off topic.

 

[lightbearer]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]That which Paul is alluding to, is the Curse, Lord God, placed upon Adam (flesh) as well as "eth Ha-Adam" (Spirit, and, the forever Holy Priesthood). From the moment, Adam ACCUSED God, for Eve. Like Adam would not, have eaten of the tree, if Eve hadn't have of? We may never know!

GOD placed? Actions have consequences. Making a choice outside of what GOD intends we automatically separate ourselves from GOD; HE that is Life the Light of men. [FONT=&quot]We had separated[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ourselves from the Tree of Life. Dying we shall surely die[/FONT]

Acts-14:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Tribulation in relation to sinning? 1John 5:3 For this is that love of God, in order that we might be keeping His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

And THIS, my fine fellow furry friends, are the "works OF Faith", upon which we ALL shall be "graded" (judged) on!

Tribulation is the persecution all take part in when they stand through and in Christ , not us fighting the old man within.

(I dunno....Did a light come on?)

Blame game....

 

[LoveGodForever]

In regards to chapter 7 in Romans. The Christian walk is a battle of the old man vs the new. The old man (the "flesh", the sin nature) still exists, as Paul wrote.

However the beginning of chapter eight should actually be in the same chapter as seven. It is a continuation of Paul's testimony. Paul states he hath been made free from the law of sin and death. He is no longer in captivity to the Law of which was in his members; he is in the Spirit in Christ because Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh; His flesh. That the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled in him (us). For Jesus Christ his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. So be healed and go and sin no more.For if after we have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20)

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me (Paul) free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do (in Paul's mind), in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(Rom 8:1-4)

Please notice in that there in only no condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit and that Jesus condemned sin; taking it away; nailing it to the cross that the righteousness be fulfilled (completely filled ) in us.

Yes nice discussion I love those two chapters of Romans 7 and 8. They need to be read together this is highlighting the importance and job of God's Law (10 commandments) and how they lead the sinner to the Savior.

The false Gospel is one that tries to separate God's Law from salvation. It is the Laws job to bring us to the Word as our Savior (Jesus; John 1:29) so we can be saved by faith and this is how we are to continue and walk. As you have received Christ Jesus the Lord so walk ye in him....

Can you imagine those who teach there is no Law anymore? If there is no Law (10 commandments) there is no longer any knowledge of SIN, if there is no SIN there is no need of a Savior. If there is no need of a Savior there is no salvation. If there is no salvation then you are lost and still in your sins.

 

[lightbearer]

We all have God's Words in us, and we all have our carnal self in us. One hates the other.

Good post praise GOD! HE lighteth every man that cometh into the world. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
Rom 1:18-20

REv. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Let's take a look at the Written Word. Revelation and the Gift of the Gospel.....

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 12:17


Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12


And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:10
　
We keep the commandments of God through the faith in which we have, which is the Faith in which Jesus has. That GOD through us does HIS will. This is our Testimony which HIS Testimony, the witness of Jesus through God's indwelling Spirit; the Spirit of prophecy. This was His Testimony; This is Faith!

For we and our Father GOD are one through the Body of Christ, the Temple of God. It is he that worketh in us both to will and do His good pleasure. He doeth the work and will lead us into all truth. This is the Spirit of Prophesy working in and through us. This is what we keep Guard with our very lives.


This is the Gospel; This is why John and Paul through the Holy Spirit shared this.

　But ye have an unction (Anointing in the Greek) from the Holy One, and ye know all things. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. The anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:20, 26-27; Rom 1:17


And why Jeremiah, Moses and Paul prophesied.


Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ,the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, Our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; this is, THE WORD OF FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH.
And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD within you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will ) in you the hope of Glory


Romans 10:6-8 and Deut. 30:11-14 are speaking the same premise as of that which is found in Hebrews 8:10,11 and Jeremiah 31:33. It is just worded different. The Gospel, the New Covenant theme is interwoven throughout the Holy Writ; written various ways.


His Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will guide us into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew us things to come. John 16:13


Each and every believer through the Faith that is through the Gospel of God have a direct link with the Father through His Christ and can and will prophesy through Word and action Our lives depend on it.

But those few that choose life, will receive the perfect helper from Jesus. "I believe, help me in my unbelief".


And with the Help of His "Truth" we will not let sin, that is in us all, have dominion over us. It is a race, a struggle, and there is a cost as Jesus said, but he who ENDURES to the end shall have everlasting life.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Flesh is dead, crucified with Christ and can rule over nothing)

Amen! As I think you have alluded to. Romans 7:23, 25 are referring to an acknowledgement to one’s understanding. Paul says he gets it. His intellect understands and his mind is a slave to it because the knowledge is there, but this knowledge does not help him gain victory over the sin in his flesh. This can only be done by us by following the Spirit through HIS will and power. Not I but Christ. For we are dead nevertheless we live, but not us; but Christ liveth in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith, the Word, the Testimony of Christ who gave himself for us.

 

[Studyman]

Stephen was not murdered by the regenerate Jews who were members of the church in Rome; he was murdered by unregenerate Jews in Jerusalem.



No, they were not regenerate Jews.



These comments are irrelevant and off topic.



Please stop misrepresenting what I wrote in my post. I wrote,

“The man in Romans 7:14-25 is an unregenerate but devout Jew struggling with all his might to keep the Law, but miserably failing to do so.”

“The Bible tells us absolutely nothing about the Jews in the Church in Rome—and it is a particular subset of these Jews that Paul is especially ministering to in this part of his epistle. These Jews apparently believed that Jesus was the Messiah and desired to fellowship with other such Jews.”

That the church in Rome included both Jews and Gentiles is documented in both the Bible and in secular literature. In Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, he mentions two of the Jews by name, Prisca and Aquila, and he refers to them as his “fellow workers in Christ Jesus.” Moreover,

Paul’s letter to the Romans is full of the use of ethnic terms. In fact, no letter in the New Testament uses as many ethnic terms, or duplicates the frequency with which Paul uses such terms as Romans. A tabulation of the following words illustrates my point. The word “gentiles/nations” occurs 29 times in Romans; “circumsion/uncircumcision” occurs 15 times; “Jew” is found 11 times as is “Israel”; “Greek” is used 6 times; while “Israelites” occurs 2 times and “barbarians” once. This comes to a total of 75 ethnic references in Romans. Although Paul uses various ethnic designations, all of the words can be boiled down into two distinct groups of people: Jews and Greeks (or gentiles). This would be similar to an author today using ethnic designations such as “Afro-American,” “black,” “Caucasian,” and “white.” Although 4 different words are being used, only two groups of people are being described. Paul’s frequent usage of these ethnic terms suggests something about the population that made up the church in Rome in the first century, as well as potential reasons why he was writing to them. The following article seeks to fulfil a promise made last year in a post entitled, “Jews and Greeks in the New Testament.” I recommend reading that article first (or rereading it if it has been awhile) as it provides some necessary background for what I will be discussing here.​

The Church in Rome: Jews and Greeks - Bible Study With Randy

and,

Conclusion

Based on a study of relevant biblical and extra-biblical documents, it is generally agreed that non-apostolic Jewish Christians brought the faith of Christ to Rome in the early decades of the church. After generating both interest and controversy within the synagogues, Christianity was forced to reorganize in the wake of Claudius’s edict against the Jews. The resulting Gentile-dominated church that received Paul’s letter in the late 50’s met in small groups around the city of Rome but maintained communication and held onto a common identity and mission. Paul and Peter leave their mark on these believers, though they merely strengthen the work that had already begun to flourish in the capital city. Beyond these main points, scholars still differ on the exact timeline of the birth and growth of the Christian community, as well as on to what degree Roman reactions against Jewish instability stem from disagreements about Christ. When all is said though, the overall picture of the emergence of Christianity in Rome constitutes yet another significant example of God’s extraordinary work in the early church during the decades following Christ’s death and resurrection.


​

https://bible.org/article/origins-church-rome



These comments are irrelevant and off topic.

Thanks for the website and the reply. I personally tend to avoid the teachings of organized religions who transgress the commandments of God by their man made traditions and doctrines. No offence to you if you want to rest your belief on them.

I replied because I have never heard this one, that Paul is somehow addressing a secret sect of believers who were not following man made traditions and doctrines, but were actually trying to obey God with all their might.

I find nowhere in Old Testament Prophesies that foretold of this. I do find, however, in both the Ot and the NT many warnings of men who come in Christ's Name to deceive. WE are all born into a religion that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own man made doctrines and traditions. We all have the choice of following it like all the rest of the people, or "Seeking" God and His Righteousness as Jesus instructed. If we do this with all our soul and all our might, we will find Him.

I don't believe God will leave anyone who does this hanging in the wind. He didn't for me.