Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

[Locutus]

wrong thread

 

[Magenta]

wrong thread

Would one of these suffice?

[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]

 

[notuptome]

Oh, REALLY? What was JESUS saying in THIS SCRIPTURE, about SINNING NO MORE?

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."


New International Version
Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

New Living Translation
But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you."

English Standard Version
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”

Berean Study Bible
Afterward, Jesus found the man in the temple and said to him, "See, you have been restored. Stop sinning, or something worse may happen to you."

Berean Literal Bible
After these things Jesus finds him in the temple and said to him, "Behold, you have become well. Sin no more, that something worse should not happen to you."

New American Standard Bible
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, "Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you."

King James Bible
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
After this, Jesus found him in the temple complex and said to him, "See, you are well. Do not sin anymore, so that something worse doesn't happen to you."

International Standard Version
Later on, Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Look! You have become well. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

NET Bible
After this Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "Look, you have become well. Don't sin any more, lest anything worse happen to you."

New Heart English Bible
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
After a time Yeshua found him in The Temple and said to him: “Behold, you are well again; do not sin, lest something worse than before should happen to you.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Later, Jesus met the man in the temple courtyard and told him, "You're well now. Stop sinning so that something worse doesn't happen to you."

New American Standard 1977
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse may befall you.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole; sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

King James 2000 Bible
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, you are made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto you.

American King James Version
Afterward Jesus finds him in the temple, and said to him, Behold, you are made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come to you.

American Standard Version
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Afterwards, Jesus findeth him in the temple, and saith to him: Behold thou art made whole: sin no more, lest some worse thing happen to thee.

Darby Bible Translation
After these things Jesus finds him in the temple, and said to him, Behold, thou art become well: sin no more, that something worse do not happen to thee.

English Revised Version
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee.

Webster's Bible Translation
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said to him, Behold, thou art cured: sin no more, lest a worse thing come to thee.

Weymouth New Testament
Afterwards Jesus found him in the Temple and said to him, "You are now restored to health. Do not sin any more, or a worse thing may befall you."

World English Bible
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you."

Young's Literal Translation
After these things, Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said to him, 'Lo, thou hast become whole; sin no more, lest something worse may happen to thee.'

Since we are not told what sin put the impotent man in his situation to begin with we have no specific sin to avoid. Jesus did say that physical infirmity was not caused by sin. Physical infirmity was to demonstrate the goodness of God that God might be glorified.

Did the man doubt and question God when he could not get into the pool for healing? Likely that would be the case. Perhaps Jesus was urging him not the doubt but trust God for his supply.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Locutus]

Would one of these suffice?

Nope, I'm color blind....

 

[Inquistor]

Since we are not told what sin put the impotent man in his situation to begin with ...

... then the man should have CONTINUOUSLY AVOIDED ALL SINS that had been identified as sins up to that point in time!

 

[Ernie07]

The Jews have always read their scriptures in Hebrew. It is less than 100 years ago that the Catholic church was still doing their mass in Latin. They did not want the laity to know or understand the bible. The bible was and remains in their eyes a threat to the Catholic church.

My father in law is in his mid nineties and will die going to a Catholic hell because he cannot deny the pope, Mary and the "church". He will not receive the bible as the truth regarding his need to be saved. Now that he has dementia it is very unlikely he has any opportunity to turn to Christ. Now that he is not giving his material wealth to the church they have abandoned him.

I know first hand the miasma that is the Roman Catholic church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi Roger,

Are you saying the Greek speaking Jews read their scriptures in Hebrew? If you were a Christian in 500, 800, 1200 A.D. you would have read from the 73 book Bible as it was the only approved Bible of the Christian Church. Do you have anything to dispute that?

If you don't mind me asking, why do you put "church" in quotes? Please define for me what you think Jesus meant by His use of the word "church". And if you think that "church" simply means "believers" then please explain how Jesus protects the multiple versions of the truth His "believers" profess?

Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Inquistor]

Hi Roger,

Are you saying the Greek speaking Jews read their scriptures in Hebrew? If you were a Christian in 500, 800, 1200 A.D. you would have read from the 73 book Bible as it was the only approved Bible of the Christian Church. Do you have anything to dispute that?

If you don't mind me asking, why do you put "church" in quotes? Please define for me what you think Jesus meant by His use of the word "church". And if you think that "church" simply means "believers" then please explain how Jesus protects the multiple versions of the truth His "believers" profess?

Thanks.

-Ernie-

I personally have never heard of any 73 book bible! Where are you getting that number? Do you KNOW how many books were REMOVED from "the bible" in 1881? FOURTEEN BOOKS were removed!


Why Were 14 Books Removed from the Bible in 1881? | Rocking God's House

 

[Ernie07]

Just that I am aware of the books you are citing and even own copies. The Holy Spirit in me does not verify them as his word.
The Jews have a lot of books. They are a prolific lot but that didn't stop them from falling into idolatry.

Wow, so you are your own authority. I didn't realize people thought like this so thank you for the education. It sounds so shockingly arrogant to me, but to be fair probably similar sentiment many may have related to many of my beliefs as a Catholic. I guess I can see why the Christian faith is so splintered if others believe as you believe. I have no idea how you reconcile differences if you each believe the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to truth. Baffling to me how you get to unity under this belief system.

So if you feel that you possess the truth regarding the number of books in the Bible did the Christian Church get it wrong for a 1000 year period of time (because the Church of that time disagrees with you)? And if they did get it wrong doesn't that mean Jesus failed to protect His Church from teaching error for if His Church got the Word of God wrong I can't imagine how much more the gates of hell could have prevailed.

Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

I would offer and add . The Roman gospel is built on necromancy (seeking after the dead) just as that of the apostate Jews performed as a law of the fathers a false zeal for knowing God not seen., same principle different names for fathers.

Scripture uses the word fathers in two different ways. One in respect to our father in heaven as in all things written in the law and prophets and the others, fathers on earth called apostolic succession as commandments or oral traditions of men . The latter usurps the authority of our father in heaven. One walks (understands) by faith the unseen, the other according to what we do see... walking by sight.

Therefore having received the reward of the flesh (false pride) instant gratification according to the natural course of this corrupted world .

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Hi Garee,

My bottom line is if you would have stated this in 500, 800, 1000 A.D. or any time prior to 1400 A.D. you would have been labeled a heretic by the single universal Christian Church. Either that Church got it wrong (and then we would be admitting that Jesus failed to protect His Church) or you're wrong. Do you understand this? Is there another option? You can't have it both ways and say, "I'm right, the Church got it wrong, but Jesus is God" because that would be a lie as you are then attributing failure to God. How do you reconcile this?

-Ernie-

 

[Inquistor]

Wow, so you are your own authority. I didn't realize people thought like this so thank you for the education. It sounds so shockingly arrogant to me, but to be fair probably similar sentiment many may have related to many of my beliefs as a Catholic. I guess I can see why the Christian faith is so splintered if others believe as you believe. I have no idea how you reconcile differences if you each believe the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to truth. Baffling to me how you get to unity under this belief system.

So if you feel that you possess the truth regarding the number of books in the Bible did the Christian Church get it wrong for a 1000 year period of time (because the Church of that time disagrees with you)? And if they did get it wrong doesn't that mean Jesus failed to protect His Church from teaching error for if His Church got the Word of God wrong I can't imagine how much more the gates of hell could have prevailed.

Thanks.

-Ernie-

Don't you think it seems kind of unsanitary ... to take words right out of another person's mouth?

 

[Ernie07]

It’s easy to see the gospel it is the key that unlocks the gates of hell as well as binding lying spirits. Duel purpose.

Sometimes it’s the smallest word (it)used twice that carries the final authority that unlocks the mysteries of the gospel

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Mat 16:17

It’s like God knew in advance men would chose the flesh of Peter the denier who was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man as that seen. He does not forgive blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not seen .(Blasphemy.. Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.)

The Catholic simply refuses to distinguish between the things of God and those of sinners, men in order to give the illusion the kingdom of God is here. God sends a strong delusion so that they can continue to believe the lie. .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: "for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mat 16:22

Ditto my response to your post #216

 

[Jackson123]

What do you mean, it's not a historical event? Have you ever heard of an encyclopedia?


Saint Peter the Apostle | History, Facts, & Feast Day | Britannica.com

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Peter-the-Apostle


Oct 24, 2017 - St. Peter the Apostle, original name Simeon or Simon, (died 64 ce, Rome [Italy]), discipleof Jesus Christ, recognized in the early Christian church as the leader of the 12 disciples and by the Roman Catholic Church as the first of its unbroken succession of popes. Peter, a Jewish fisherman, was called to be ...

Have you read this link

Religion and Spirituality: Was Peter Ever in Rome?

Catholic use 1 Peter 5:13 to prove peter in rome

13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

jews historian say that jews use code babylon AS a rome after 70 AD, because rome destroy the temple like babylon did in 70 AD

and peter die at 67 AD.

Clement letter

Clement not state peter die in Rome

Clement only give Example 7 people in the OT and 7 people in NT that suffer from Jealousy, in order to remind the church to not jealousy among the members.

Let me repeat one more time, Clement not mention that Peter die in Rome, but both peter and Paul suffer from the same couse(jealousy) not die in the same city.

 

[notuptome]

Hi Roger,

Are you saying the Greek speaking Jews read their scriptures in Hebrew? If you were a Christian in 500, 800, 1200 A.D. you would have read from the 73 book Bible as it was the only approved Bible of the Christian Church. Do you have anything to dispute that?

If you don't mind me asking, why do you put "church" in quotes? Please define for me what you think Jesus meant by His use of the word "church". And if you think that "church" simply means "believers" then please explain how Jesus protects the multiple versions of the truth His "believers" profess?

Thanks.

-Ernie-

To create a distinction between the real church the living organism created by Christ and the Roman Catholic church an organization created by man. One great difficulty encountered when discussing religious things with catholics is the use of identical terms with contradictory meanings.

By Christian church you mean the Roman Catholic church? In that time period bibles were very rare and expensive as they were hand copied. You beat the air with your words to what avail?

Romes version of soteriology must be reconciled with scripture. It cannot be reconciled so it will be proven in error. Unregenerate hearts cannot receive Spiritual truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ernie07]

168 Blessed Virgin Mary images ... found by Google!


https://www.google.com/search?q=wom...hXqJsAKHaLjAHwQ9QEILzAD#imgrc=WJywCtP9s6OJyM:

Images look like what one might expect after reading Rev 12:1.

Thanks!

-Ernie-

 

[Jackson123]

Fair enough as I thought most understood that Onesiphorus was dead. Please read 2 Mach 12:46. You may not have it in your bible, but the Church read from the Bible that included that book for 1000 years until a few groups removed them from the Bible.

-Ernie-

hem, catholic and protestant are different text book. Or different religion. Nothing we can do,

 

[Inquistor]

To create a distinction between the real church the living organism created by Christ and the Roman Catholic church an organization created by man. One great difficulty encountered when discussing religious things with catholics is the use of identical terms with contradictory meanings.

By Christian church you mean the Roman Catholic church? In that time period bibles were very rare and expensive as they were hand copied. You beat the air with your words to what avail?

Romes version of soteriology must be reconciled with scripture. It cannot be reconciled so it will be proven in error. Unregenerate hearts cannot receive Spiritual truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, you are right ... the Catholic Church WAS created by a Man. The Man's Name was Jesus Christ!


Wasn't this the first church service?


Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. ... On the first day of
the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Ernie07]

hello Ernie, If you want to know the truth, the standart is the bible. So If the church play politic, you know It. In the history of church, make mistake, for Example, sale indulgence, inquisition, killing unbeliever.

So I am not agree to use church AS standart. I have bible AS a standart.

And I believe the foundation of Christianity is the faith that believe that Jesus is Messiah, not Peter

one day Jesus rebuke peter, another dayPeter Deny Jesus,

base oN those 2 fact I believe the foundation of Christianity is the faith that Jesus is Messiah,

and the key to heaven is the faith that believe that Jesus is Messiah, It is in John 3:16 Said that whosoever believe in Him Will be save. That is the key

also I give you a link that may help you to consider, this link say a catholic monk, well know archeolog, found Peter tomb in Jerusalem, and If you read bible, you may believe that Paul established a Rome church not Peter, there isn't evident from the bible that Peter ever in Rome.

The Discovery of Peter's Tomb in Jerusalem, 1953

Hi Jackson,

I have no doubt that you have your own personal interpretations of scripture and I respect that, but you still have not answered my question,

So I ask if your beliefs above are in fact the truth show me the evidence that the Church believed as you believe.

I'm sorry but the bottom line is that you would have been labeled a heretic if you would have professed these beliefs in the year 500, 700, 900 A.D. or any time before 1400 A.D. I'll wait for you to prove me otherwise. Your intentions and interpretations are well meaning, but they just don't represent the truth that validates that Jesus has protected His Church from teaching error. It may be your version of the truth today, but it would have gotten you kicked out of the early Christian Church. Truth can't be just about what we believe today, but must include all times.

Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Inquistor]

Yes, you are right ... the Catholic Church WAS created by a Man. The Man's Name was Jesus Christ!


Wasn't this the first church service?


Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. ... On the first day of
the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

"Do this in memory of Me."


Bible Search: do this in memory of me

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Wow, so you are your own authority. I didn't realize people thought like this so thank you for the education. It sounds so shockingly arrogant to me, but to be fair probably similar sentiment many may have related to many of my beliefs as a Catholic. I guess I can see why the Christian faith is so splintered if others believe as you believe. I have no idea how you reconcile differences if you each believe the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to truth. Baffling to me how you get to unity under this belief system.

So if you feel that you possess the truth regarding the number of books in the Bible did the Christian Church get it wrong for a 1000 year period of time (because the Church of that time disagrees with you)? And if they did get it wrong doesn't that mean Jesus failed to protect His Church from teaching error for if His Church got the Word of God wrong I can't imagine how much more the gates of hell could have prevailed.

Thanks.

-Ernie-

So you don't believe in The Holy Spirit after all.
If you think I'm arrogant. Then you think, Jesus, the apostles, the Hebrew prophets, and all spirit-filled believers are arrogant too. I'm not claiming any specialist knowledge all of my own. Again, I say you are showing yourself to be ignorant of the Bible.

 

[Inquistor]

So you don't believe in The Holy Spirit after all.
If you think I'm arrogant. Then you think, Jesus, the apostles, the Hebrew prophets, and all spirit-filled believers are arrogant too. I'm not claiming any specialist knowledge all of my own. Again, I say you are showing yourself to be ignorant of the Bible.

I for one, firmly believe in the Holy Spirit. Do you ALSO believe in the MANIFESTATIONS of the Holy Spirit?


Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;


1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.