The 66 Books...

[joaniemarie]

I'm so thankful that through the Holy Spirit teaching us about Jesus through the Letters to the church (Bible) and those who read and study the Bible give out the truth through the Holy Spirit. Just look up the word "word" in the concordance and you'll see how important the Word of God is. Jesus is also the Word and there is a written Word as well. Faith comes by us hearing the Word of God.

God has taken the written Word (letters to the church) and as Fishnook has said He has protected and kept the truth of it pure throughout the ages even though the world and the devil have sought to get rid of it for years. Thousands of people of God have died to get the written word out to the masses. To get people to learn how to read. Evil men want to keep people uneducated so they can't find out the truth themselves and have to depend on evil people.

Those who couldn't or can't read depend on God's people., preachers and teachers and evangelists given to the church the body of Christ.

Man corrupts everything and the Lord has preserved the Bible so any person can get it and grow thereby. How beautiful are their feet! Romans 10:15

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]But how are people to call upon Him Whom they have not believed [in Whom they have no faith, on Whom they have no reliance]? And how are they to believe in Him [adhere to, trust in, and rely upon Him] of Whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]And how can men [be expected to] preach unless they are sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings! [How welcome is the coming of those who preach the good news of His good things!]
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But they have not all heeded the Gospel; for Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed (had faith in) what he has heard from us?
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).



The Bible says that His word will not return to Him void but will accomplish what He sends it out to do. Heb.4:12 ; 2 Tim.2:13-20;

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the [SUP][a][/SUP]breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are faithless [do not believe and are untrue to Him], He remains true (faithful to His Word and His righteous character), for He cannot deny Himself.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Remind [the people] of these facts and [solemnly] charge them in the presence of the Lord to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good but upsets and undermines the faith of the hearers.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]And their teaching [will devour; it] will eat its way like cancer or spread like gangrene. So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus,
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]Who have missed the mark and swerved from the truth by arguing that the resurrection has already taken place. They are undermining the faith of some.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]But the firm foundation of (laid by) God stands, sure and unshaken, bearing this seal (inscription): The Lord knows those who are His, and, Let everyone who names [himself by] the name of the Lord give up all iniquity and stand aloof from it.

We are called to Study the Bible and learn about Jesus and our salvation. Paul gave great detailed instruction to the Church about how we are saved in the book of Romans. About what Jesus has done for us believers. Every word in the Bible old and new testament is to be read and studied be each believer so we can grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Each of us has a responsibility to learn how to rightly divide the whole Bible and just as we each have the HolySpirit., God worked it out that we have the written Word of God so that we will not be deceived by evil or distorted people who try to misrepresent Jesus. Missionaries are sent to give out the Word of God and tell about Jesus.

Don't be tricked to think you don't need the Bible if you have Jesus. We need to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior and we need both the Holy Spirit and the written Word of God that has been preserved supernaturally by God Himself. What a gift!! Even those of us who can't read the Greek and Hebrew letters can still learn God's Word and grow because we also have the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's interesting that certain denominations of Christianity have more than 66 books. In the Catholic canon, there are 73 books in all. In the Orthodox Tewahedo canon, there are 81.

It is far more than "interesting". It is an attempt to mix inspired writings with non-inspired writings and create spiritual confusion. The 66 books which we have are the actual canon of Scripture, and God the Holy Spirit led true Christians to recognize the truly inspired writings. When the Lord spoke about the Hebrew Bible He limited it to (1) the Law (5 books), (2) the Prophets (8 books), and (3) the Psalms or Writings (11 books) for a total of 24 books.

 

[Waggles]

Notice hoe atheists and humanists are so intent on trashing,
banning or attacking the Bible and Jesus.
Yet these same Satanists never challenge the Koran and Mohammed.
Don't really have much to say about Buddhism or Hinduism either.

That because Satan knows the difference between the Truth and his
own false religions.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Notice hoe atheists and humanists are so intent on trashing,
banning or attacking the Bible and Jesus.
Yet these same Satanists never challenge the Koran and Mohammed.
Don't really have much to say about Buddhism or Hinduism either.

That because Satan knows the difference between the Truth and his
own false religions.

You hit the nail on the head Waggles. The attack on God's words and the Word of God began in Eden and has continued ever since. It is even more intense now.

 

[jaybird88]

It is far more than "interesting". It is an attempt to mix inspired writings with non-inspired writings and create spiritual confusion. The 66 books which we have are the actual canon of Scripture, and God the Holy Spirit led true Christians to recognize the truly inspired writings. When the Lord spoke about the Hebrew Bible He limited it to (1) the Law (5 books), (2) the Prophets (8 books), and (3) the Psalms or Writings (11 books) for a total of 24 books.

Jude quoted the book of Enoch. Jude was one of the chosen 12 and the brother of Jesus. was he spiritually confused?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Jude quoted the book of Enoch. Jude was one of the chosen 12 and the brother of Jesus. was he spiritually confused?

Paul The Apostle quoted Greek philosophers a couple of times. But we don't accept Greek philosophers as Holy Spirit inspired.

It's not unheard of for the writers of the Biblical record to refer to other Jewish sources.

BOOKS OF THE CHRONICLES OF THE KINGS OF JUDAH AND ISRAEL, two sets of royal annals, mentioned in I and II Kings but subsequently lost. The historian of Kings refers to these works as his source, where additional information may be found. These references show how the historian of Kings used extensive sources selectively. The books are referred to by this formula, with slight variations: "Now the rest of the acts of [the king], and all that he did, behold, they are written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah/Israel." Frequently references are made to "his might," or "how we warred," and occasionally more specific deeds are mentioned (e.g., I Kings 15:23; II Kings 20:20).


The Israelite annals are mentioned 18 times (I Kings 14:19 (17); 15:31; 16:5; et al.) and the Judean annals 15 times (I Kings 14:29; 15:7, 23; et al.). Of all the kings of Israel, only Jehoram and Hosea are not mentioned as referred to in the Israelite annals. Of the kings of Judah (after Solomon) only Ahaziah, Athaliah, Jehoahaz, Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah are not mentioned in this regard. It is uncertain whether these books were royal records themselves or edited annals based on the records. It seems likely in view of the negative references to certain kings (Zimri, Shallum, and Manasseh), which would not very likely be the product of the king's own recorders, that the books were edited annals. Furthermore, the Judean author of Kings could hardly have had access to all the royal records of the northern kingdom. The content of these books appears identical in character to the Assyrian annals. Probably the mass of facts on royal activities in Kings came from these books. Chronicles mentions the book of the kings of Israel (I Chron. 9:1; II Chron. 20:34) and the book of the kings of Israel and Judah (or Judah and Israel; II Chron. 16: 11; 27:7; et al.). The chronicler seems to be referring to the same works, but probably did not actually have them at his disposal.

 

[notuptome]

Jude quoted the book of Enoch. Jude was one of the chosen 12 and the brother of Jesus. was he spiritually confused?

How would you know if the book of Enoch was written after the book of Jude? Perhaps Enoch copied Jude and not Jude citing Enoch?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[star]

I believe that the bible is the inspired words of God Almighty, Creator. I believe He has protected His word down through the ages and that His message to creation is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow.

 

[jaybird88]

Paul The Apostle quoted Greek philosophers a couple of times. But we don't accept Greek philosophers as Holy Spirit inspired.

Paul quoted greek philosophers as greek philosophers. Jude quotes Enoch as scripture. do you understand the difference? read Jude, all that info Jude is relating to Noah, Sodom, angels that left their 1st estate, Michael the arch angel, etc. these references are not to information "outside" the scripture.
Paul is just making a comment IMO that their are good works outside the scripture that one can learn from, i agree.

 

[jaybird88]

How would you know if the book of Enoch was written after the book of Jude? Perhaps Enoch copied Jude and not Jude citing Enoch?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Enoch of the DSS is older than Jude. 200 BC - 50 AD. the Enoch scrolls have more specific dates but even in the big window its still older.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Paul quoted greek philosophers as greek philosophers. Jude quotes Enoch as scripture. do you understand the difference? read Jude, all that info Jude is relating to Noah, Sodom, angels that left their 1st estate, Michael the arch angel, etc. these references are not to information "outside" the scripture.
Paul is just making a comment IMO that their are good works outside the scripture that one can learn from, i agree.

I've read Jude and I have a copy of Enoch which I have read. I don't think it's kosher (so to speak)

 

[jaybird88]

I've read Jude and I have a copy of Enoch which I have read. I don't think it's kosher (so to speak)

Jude sounds as if he believed it to be kosher.

James also quotes scripture not in the 66 books.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?

 

[NayborBear]

Jude sounds as if he believed it to be kosher.

James also quotes scripture not in the 66 books.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?

I'll even go one further, and say that that warning in the Revelation, that anyone who adds to, or takes away from the words of this book, yada, yada, yada? Were intentionally added by the canonizers in 3 hundred whatever A.D. Or doesn't the fact that the "warning" just happens to be in the very last book of their canon, just a little too convenient? I would even venture to say that there are people around these days that could do just as well, if not, a better job of canonization, then them 'ol boys back 1700 hundred years ago! Inerrant? My left foot!

 

[jaybird88]

I'll even go one further, and say that that warning in the Revelation, that anyone who adds to, or takes away from the words of this book, yada, yada, yada? Were intentionally added by the canonizers in 3 hundred whatever A.D. Or doesn't the fact that the "warning" just happens to be in the very last book of their canon, just a little too convenient? I would even venture to say that there are people around these days that could do just as well, if not, a better job of canonization, then them 'ol boys back 1700 hundred years ago! Inerrant? My left foot!

i dont know, there are several places that warn not to add or remove. i always thought it was referring to specific scriptures and not the whole bible.
i believe that books have been left out in favor of certain doctrines or to hide doctrines.

also there were 12 Apostles and yet they account for so little of our NT, my foot!

 

[Nehemiah6]

i believe that books have been left out in favor of certain doctrines or to hide doctrines.

You are suggesting some kind of conspiracy to tamper with the Bible. But that is simply not supported by the facts. While the apostles were on earth the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the Old Testament) was firmly established and ratified by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Then Peter -- writing by Divine inspiration -- included ALL the epistles of Paul with those Scriptures. So that is already over half the New Testament.

In the meantime, the Gospels and other epistles were were circulated and copied and re-copied throughout the Roman Empire, and beyond, and there was already a Syriac translation of the Bible by the 2nd century. Also sometime in the 2nd century the Muratori Canon was written down which listed almost all the books of the New Testament as we have them. At the same time, Christians were identifying the false gospels and pseudepigraphical books of the New Testament Apocrypha, and clearly rejected the writings of the heretics and Gnostics. What we must also remember is that God was not absent while the canon of Scripture was coming together.

 

[jaybird88]

You are suggesting some kind of conspiracy to tamper with the Bible. But that is simply not supported by the facts.

there are more than 20 books mentioned by name in the bible that are not in the "canon" today. not a conspiracy, its a reality.

While the apostles were on earth the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures (what we call the Old Testament) was firmly established and ratified by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

that would have been the LXX, some of those books have been removed.

Then Peter -- writing by Divine inspiration -- included ALL the epistles of Paul with those Scriptures. So that is already over half the New Testament.

In the meantime, the Gospels and other epistles were were circulated and copied and re-copied throughout the Roman Empire, and beyond, and there was already a Syriac translation of the Bible by the 2nd century. Also sometime in the 2nd century the Muratori Canon was written down which listed almost all the books of the New Testament as we have them. At the same time, Christians were identifying the false gospels and pseudepigraphical books of the New Testament Apocrypha, and clearly rejected the writings of the heretics and Gnostics. What we must also remember is that God was not absent while the canon of Scripture was coming together.

do you have a scripture where Jesus, the 12 or st Paul ID one of these false books?
i am well aware of Rome calling out these false books, they give us lots of evidence, however one thing missing is the voice of those that supported those books. rome usually does a good job of stomping out that voice.

 

[MarcR]

I hope that I made it clear in the Inspiration of Scriptures thread that I was not challenging Scripture; I was challenging those who were calling it corrupt.

I believe firmly in the authority of Scripture.

 

[Magenta]

churches throw out books to make their doctrines work, or when they dont like a doctrine they just get rid of the book that teach it and then claim it wasnt inspired in the first place.

The RCC added books that had not been considered inspired.
Why? Because the added books aligned with their false doctrines.

The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.

Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.​

The deuterocanonical books had not been considered inspired; at least one of the authors of such even acknowledges that there were no prophets during the intertestate time. Those years are referred to as "silent" and "inter-testate" for a reason.

The deuterocanonical books do not share many of the characteristics of the canonical books: they are not prophetic, there is no supernatural confirmation of any of the apocryphal writers works, there is no predictive prophecy, there is no new Messianic truth revealed, they are not cited as authoritative by any prophetic book written after them, and they even acknowledge that there were no prophets in Israel at their time.

And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them. (1 Maccabees 4:46)

And there was a great tribulation in Israel, such as was not since the day, that there was no prophet seen in Israel. (1 Maccabees 9:27)

And that the Jews, and their priests, had consented that he should be their prince, and high priest for ever, till there should arise a faithful prophet. (1 Maccabees 14:41)

And that the Jews, and their priests, had consented that he should be their prince, and high priest for ever, till there should arise a faithful prophet. (1 Maccabees 9:27)

Neither Jews nor even early Catholics accepted them as inspired. Josephus explicitly rejected the Apocrypha, as did Jerome, Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius.

When Jesus cited the scope of Scripture, it did not include the deuterocanonical texts either, encompassing “... the blood of Abel [Genesis 4:8] to the blood of Zechariah [2 Chron. 24:20], who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation." (Luke 11:51; Matthew. 23:35) [Chronicles was the last book according to the arrangement of the Jewish Scriptures.]

The Dead Sea Scrolls do not contain commentaries on the Apocrypha as they do for the Jewish Old Testament books, and they do not cite the Apocrypha authoritatively as scripture.

The Manual of Discipline in the Dead Sea Scrolls rejected the apocrypha as inspired.​

Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration. These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.

They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.

They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.

The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

The apocrypha contains offensive materials unbecoming of God's authorship.

The apocryphal books themselves make reference to what we call the Silent 400 years, where there was no prophets of God to write inspired materials.

Josephus rejected the apocryphal books as inspired,

and this reflected Jewish thought at the time of Jesus.​

"From Artexerxes to our own time the complete history has been written but has not been deemed worthy of equal credit with the earlier records because of the failure of the exact succession of the prophets." ... "We have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, but only twenty-two books, which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine..."(Flavius Josephus, Against Apion 1:8)

The Council of Jamnia held the same view rejected the apocrypha as inspired. They debated the canonicity of a few books (e.g., Ecclesiastes), but they changed nothing and never proclaimed themselves to be authoritative determiners of the Old Testament canon. "The books which they decided to acknowledge as canonical were already generally accepted.

*I was going to post this a few times before, in another thread, but my computer was having problems that prevented me from completion... there is more to add, so I encourage you to do some more research. Sources are missing, though some of the above is from CARM.
​

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I'll even go one further, and say that that warning in the Revelation, that anyone who adds to, or takes away from the words of this book, yada, yada, yada? Were intentionally added by the canonizers in 3 hundred whatever A.D. Or doesn't the fact that the "warning" just happens to be in the very last book of their canon, just a little too convenient? I would even venture to say that there are people around these days that could do just as well, if not, a better job of canonization, then them 'ol boys back 1700 hundred years ago! Inerrant? My left foot!

Nevermind what humans have done. God has often used fallible creatures to accomplish his purpose on earth. Moses was far from perfect. You lack faith that The Lord God can and did preserve his message.

 

[NayborBear]

Nevermind what humans have done. God has often used fallible creatures to accomplish his purpose on earth. Moses was far from perfect. You lack faith that The Lord God can and did preserve his message.

Not lack of faith at all! But, also, no "blinders" either! Meaning, not blind faith! As (a) blind faith will fall to seducing spirits, which sound true! Not to mention easier in the following and adhering TO!