Tearful young lady tells of meeting Jesus who warns His return is near--at the gates
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H
false
it is so basic and obvious a babe in Christ with a bible can defend it.
that is why you play marbles with jesuit priests and Margaret MC Donald while we bereans blow ya'll goofy theories out of the water like shooting ducks in a barrel.
please do post for us one postrib rapture verse. Just one.
it is so basic and obvious a babe in Christ with a bible can defend it.
that is why you play marbles with jesuit priests and Margaret MC Donald while we bereans blow ya'll goofy theories out of the water like shooting ducks in a barrel.
please do post for us one postrib rapture verse. Just one.
You seem awfully angry about this. Perhaps you should take a few deep breaths and pray for a little kindness....
You are simply espousing YOUR understanding of scripture.... scripture that is, at best, not "black and white".... and CERTAINLY not a salvation issue.
You, as a professed "Berean" should understand that.
There are just as many good, Bible-believing, devout Christians who do NOT see any indication of a "rapture", in end-times scripture.
They could just as easily puff out their chest and insist YOU provide ONE scripture that definitively mentions a "rapture", that is not capable of being interpreted another way.
In short, you need to "lighten up, Francis"..... let's have a discussion the way adults do. Agree to disagree, if necessary, but remain brothers in Christ.
You are simply espousing YOUR understanding of scripture.... scripture that is, at best, not "black and white".... and CERTAINLY not a salvation issue.
You, as a professed "Berean" should understand that.
There are just as many good, Bible-believing, devout Christians who do NOT see any indication of a "rapture", in end-times scripture.
They could just as easily puff out their chest and insist YOU provide ONE scripture that definitively mentions a "rapture", that is not capable of being interpreted another way.
In short, you need to "lighten up, Francis"..... let's have a discussion the way adults do. Agree to disagree, if necessary, but remain brothers in Christ.
If we are in the final tribulation which began when Christ said it is finished. What should we look for?
Living in a corrupted creation as a living tribulation is called hell .
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 3:13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
No tribulation, living suffering, no glory.
2Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
If you study what God says in the NT about persecution, you will find out, that this is normal fir an follower of Jesus. Christians in all time faced persecution. And somw in an terrible way, if you look around in the world. But non of this persecutions/ tribulations you can compare to the great tribulation which we find in the book of revelation. And which has not taken place in history till now.
So what is the heresy to believe in pre trib?
So what is the heresy to believe in pre trib?
The "heresy" is that the erroneous ideas of the end-times and the book of Revelation which held sway for hundreds of years were finally exposed as nonsensical. Amillennialism, Preterism (or partial Preterism), Covenant Theology and Replacement Theology were all shown to be invalid through a proper literal interpretation of Scripture. As to a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, the Bible makes it perfectly clear that the Rapture was always IMMINENT, thus the Apostolic churches were expecting the return of Christ for the saints even at that time.
I see what i post is still appreciated by our Canadian sister here-- I don't believe that I said anything about predicting a rapture, and I haven't studied it much, but I do remember the Apostle Paul making references to such an event, and also in Revelations 7-- and I agree that it could be one year or 100, as Peter said,
"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. " (2 Peter 3:8; ESV; biblehub.com)
And it's probably not a good idea to label opposing Christian teaching like the rapture or tribulation as not from God--
"For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,[SUP]d[/SUP] that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words."
(1 Thess. 4:15-18; ESV; biblehub.com)
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:36; KJV; biblehub.com)
"Keep a constant watch. And pray that if possible you may arrive in my presence without having to experience these horrors.” (Luke 21:36; TLB; biblehub.com)
Other translations say, "pray that you will have the strength." Which seems to agree with
"keep a constant watch," since it takes a lot of strength to do this, but it is important since Jesus asked his disciples to "watch and pray," in the garden of Gethsemane,
"Then he returned to the three disciples and found them asleep. “Peter,” he called, “couldn’t you even stay awake with me one hour?41 Keep alert and pray. Otherwise temptation will overpower you. For the spirit indeed is willing, but how weak the body is!” (Matt. 26:40-41; TLB; biblegateway.com)
These passages seem to say that although we may be saved Christians, worthy in the New Covenant sense, if we do not take these warnings of Jesus seriously, such as living and sharing the Gospel, and not falling into "riotous living," like the prodigal son, consequences may be implied, such as being spared the worst of tribulations, if we are not found "worthy," in a reward sense.
I posted this video, because it is clearly in the Bible to always "walk worthy of the Lord," which was on a recent church bulletin, and there can be very serious consequences for those who hear or see warnings such as this, and do not take repentance seriously, if they are in a place in their life where courageous peaceful decisions and actions are called for.
Former American President, Ronald Reagan, said once about the life of an unborn child that
it's better to err on the side of mercy--
"The fact that they could not resolve the issue of when life begins was a finding in and of itself. If we don't know, then shouldn't we opt on the side that it is life?" (Ronald Reagan)
<font size="3"><span class="text Matt-26-41" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="woj" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">[video=youtube;1o000KW_wLA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o000KW_wLA[/video]
Wouldn't the same principle, which is supported in the Bible time again, apply to the end of life, either our own, where eternity is only a heartbeat away, or as the Bible warns, the end of the age should always be considered "at the gates."
If it matters to "watch and pray," even for saved Apostles, then it surely matters to us as modern mostly carefree, aimless, divided Christians.
Personally, i think the young lady in the first video has the right idea and Reagan agrees, if we're not sure, then err on the side of caution.
"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. " (2 Peter 3:8; ESV; biblehub.com)
And it's probably not a good idea to label opposing Christian teaching like the rapture or tribulation as not from God--
"For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,[SUP]d[/SUP] that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words."
(1 Thess. 4:15-18; ESV; biblehub.com)
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:36; KJV; biblehub.com)
"Keep a constant watch. And pray that if possible you may arrive in my presence without having to experience these horrors.” (Luke 21:36; TLB; biblehub.com)
Other translations say, "pray that you will have the strength." Which seems to agree with
"keep a constant watch," since it takes a lot of strength to do this, but it is important since Jesus asked his disciples to "watch and pray," in the garden of Gethsemane,
"Then he returned to the three disciples and found them asleep. “Peter,” he called, “couldn’t you even stay awake with me one hour?41 Keep alert and pray. Otherwise temptation will overpower you. For the spirit indeed is willing, but how weak the body is!” (Matt. 26:40-41; TLB; biblegateway.com)
These passages seem to say that although we may be saved Christians, worthy in the New Covenant sense, if we do not take these warnings of Jesus seriously, such as living and sharing the Gospel, and not falling into "riotous living," like the prodigal son, consequences may be implied, such as being spared the worst of tribulations, if we are not found "worthy," in a reward sense.
I posted this video, because it is clearly in the Bible to always "walk worthy of the Lord," which was on a recent church bulletin, and there can be very serious consequences for those who hear or see warnings such as this, and do not take repentance seriously, if they are in a place in their life where courageous peaceful decisions and actions are called for.
Former American President, Ronald Reagan, said once about the life of an unborn child that
it's better to err on the side of mercy--
"The fact that they could not resolve the issue of when life begins was a finding in and of itself. If we don't know, then shouldn't we opt on the side that it is life?" (Ronald Reagan)
<font size="3"><span class="text Matt-26-41" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span class="woj" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">[video=youtube;1o000KW_wLA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o000KW_wLA[/video]
Wouldn't the same principle, which is supported in the Bible time again, apply to the end of life, either our own, where eternity is only a heartbeat away, or as the Bible warns, the end of the age should always be considered "at the gates."
If it matters to "watch and pray," even for saved Apostles, then it surely matters to us as modern mostly carefree, aimless, divided Christians.
Personally, i think the young lady in the first video has the right idea and Reagan agrees, if we're not sure, then err on the side of caution.
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Please keep on posting about the coming of Christ for His bride the church Awahtukee as you are doing exactly what the Bible instructs in 1Thess.4:13-18 "Therefore comfort one another with these words". The church today needs that comfort and encouragement and that is exactly why the Lord told us to keep on doing it. Thank you for your ministry here.
Hi Herald., I visited your thread here after you posted on mine
to see what you posted and if I could give you a word of encouragement too. I want to say that the Lord wants us to have a STRONG consolation in His love and watch care over us. He wants us to have that sure Anchor to the soul.
Being CONFIDENT in Jesus as our Great High Priest who goes before us is a great security. Jesus IS our security. There is no more wrath or punishment coming for the believer because Jesus...our Great High Priest has already gone on before us and taken all the wrath of God for us. It's the truth we need to claim every day. Hebrews 6:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And thus, having patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For men swear by the greater: and in every dispute of theirs the oath is final for confirmation.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, [SUP][a][/SUP]interposed with an oath;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have a strong encouragement, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]which we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and stedfast and entering into that which is within the veil;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Being confident of His love and His finishing what He began in us is major to our faith walk. We do not have to fear anything from God anymore because we are in Christ. Perfect love casts out fear. 1 John 4:18 is especially helpful in the Amplified Bible IMO.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love [dread does not exist], but full-grown (complete, perfect) love [SUP][a][/SUP]turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear [SUP][b][/SUP]brings with it the thought of punishment, and [so] he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love [is not yet grown into love’s complete perfection].
We believers are to be encouraging each other with this sure foundation which is Christ. Hebrews 10:17 promises that because of Jesus "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." There is no video or DVD of all our sins being recorded in heaven for us and for all to see. Many Christians sadly believe this but it is 100% not true. Our sins are buried in the deepest sea forgiven and forgotten because of Jesus. Jesus paid it all.
And Jesus is coming for His bride the church because we who are His were not appointed to wrath. PRAISE THE LORD for He is good., His mercies endureth forever!!
Being CONFIDENT in Jesus as our Great High Priest who goes before us is a great security. Jesus IS our security. There is no more wrath or punishment coming for the believer because Jesus...our Great High Priest has already gone on before us and taken all the wrath of God for us. It's the truth we need to claim every day. Hebrews 6:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And thus, having patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For men swear by the greater: and in every dispute of theirs the oath is final for confirmation.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of the promise the immutability of his counsel, [SUP][a][/SUP]interposed with an oath;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have a strong encouragement, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]which we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and stedfast and entering into that which is within the veil;
[SUP]20 [/SUP]whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Being confident of His love and His finishing what He began in us is major to our faith walk. We do not have to fear anything from God anymore because we are in Christ. Perfect love casts out fear. 1 John 4:18 is especially helpful in the Amplified Bible IMO.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love [dread does not exist], but full-grown (complete, perfect) love [SUP][a][/SUP]turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear [SUP][b][/SUP]brings with it the thought of punishment, and [so] he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love [is not yet grown into love’s complete perfection].
We believers are to be encouraging each other with this sure foundation which is Christ. Hebrews 10:17 promises that because of Jesus "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." There is no video or DVD of all our sins being recorded in heaven for us and for all to see. Many Christians sadly believe this but it is 100% not true. Our sins are buried in the deepest sea forgiven and forgotten because of Jesus. Jesus paid it all.
And Jesus is coming for His bride the church because we who are His were not appointed to wrath. PRAISE THE LORD for He is good., His mercies endureth forever!!
And, this scripture could just as easily, if not MORE easily, be interpreted as talking about the second coming of Jesus... the end of this world. This scripture does not readily indicate some sort of rapture for some of God's chosen.. leaving the other chosen ones to stay here on earth and go through great tribulation before accepting Jesus in their "second chance"....
My problem with the whole "rapture" thing is that most rapture people stress the fact that it is imminent... and that we should somehow be on high alert... watching, prepared, anticipating..... as if somehow we should be "better" than we normally are, because the rapture is imminent.
If we are truly believers, we should be living that way all the time. Period. It should not matter if the "rapture" or the second coming happens tomorrow, or 5,000 years from now... we, as believers should live our lives in such a way as to be always eager and ready to see Jesus.
Just how "ready" or "worthy" can we make ourselves? Because, in reality, the end of the world could happen in the next 5 seconds, for any one of us. Heart attack, stroke, head on collision, terrorist bomb attack.... any one of those things can be the end of the world for any one of us.
My problem with the whole "rapture" thing is that most rapture people stress the fact that it is imminent... and that we should somehow be on high alert... watching, prepared, anticipating..... as if somehow we should be "better" than we normally are, because the rapture is imminent.
If we are truly believers, we should be living that way all the time. Period. It should not matter if the "rapture" or the second coming happens tomorrow, or 5,000 years from now... we, as believers should live our lives in such a way as to be always eager and ready to see Jesus.
Just how "ready" or "worthy" can we make ourselves? Because, in reality, the end of the world could happen in the next 5 seconds, for any one of us. Heart attack, stroke, head on collision, terrorist bomb attack.... any one of those things can be the end of the world for any one of us.
H
Originally Posted by hornetguy You seem awfully angry about this. Perhaps you should take a few deep breaths and pray for a little kindness....
You are simply espousing YOUR understanding of scripture.... scripture that is, at best, not "black and white".... and CERTAINLY not a salvation issue.
You, as a professed "Berean" should understand that.
There are just as many good, Bible-believing, devout Christians who do NOT see any indication of a "rapture", in end-times scripture.
They could just as easily puff out their chest and insist YOU provide ONE scripture that definitively mentions a "rapture", that is not capable of being interpreted another way.
In short, you need to "lighten up, Francis"..... let's have a discussion the way adults do. Agree to disagree, if necessary, but remain brothers in Christ.
You are simply espousing YOUR understanding of scripture.... scripture that is, at best, not "black and white".... and CERTAINLY not a salvation issue.
You, as a professed "Berean" should understand that.
There are just as many good, Bible-believing, devout Christians who do NOT see any indication of a "rapture", in end-times scripture.
They could just as easily puff out their chest and insist YOU provide ONE scripture that definitively mentions a "rapture", that is not capable of being interpreted another way.
In short, you need to "lighten up, Francis"..... let's have a discussion the way adults do. Agree to disagree, if necessary, but remain brothers in Christ.
Anger issue????
H
[FONT="]Mat 25
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.[/FONT]
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Vividly depicted,not all will depart. (roughly half stays and half leaves with [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Jesus[/FONT])
This is not true for she seen nothing concerning judgment day,for God already told us all we need to know in the Bible concerning the end time,and judgment day is over 7 years away.
It is like Mary Baxter saying she had a vision of heaven and hell,which she did not,for John already told us about heaven,and the Bible tells us all we need to know about hell that it is hot and dark,and the lost cannot see anything anyway,for her to have to describe it.
The Bible tells us all we need to know,and nobody has to have a vision from God concerning what is already wrote in the Bible,unless it is God operating in the Church for the salvation of people.
It is like the story of the rich man and Lazarus,when the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to tell his brothers of the place of torment he was at,and Abraham said they have the word of Moses,let them hear him,but the rich man said but if Lazarus went to them they would believe,and Abraham said if they do not hear Moses they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them.
They did not have a vision,and the Bible already told us all we need to know of the end time,and heaven and hell,and if they do not hear the word of God they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them.
John told us of heaven,hell is hot and dark,and we already have information concerning the end time,so no one needs a vision to explain anything,and there is already many saints telling of the end time correctly by the knowledge of the Bible,without someone having a vision to tell us.
God is giving the world 7 years to have their way to cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,so He can end this sin business on earth,and then it is judgement day after the 7 years is over,and the nations have not come together as one and said Peace and safety yet,in which starts the beginning of the 7 years.
God will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,and the world has not given up on Him for the Gospel is still allowed to be preached in the world,and as long as one nation can preach the Gospel freely,and all the others did not it still is not considered giving up on God,for it has to be all nations involved against the truth before it is considered the world giving up on God,with the exception of Israel for God will turn them to the truth.
It is when the world comes together and does not allow the truth to be preached among all nations that will be when the world will have given up on God,which at that time the saints will be hated of all nations,which the only religion they will tolerate will be spiritual evolution through nature because they believe people are still evolving,giving heed to the God of forces,or the power of nature as their higher power,and it will be a hate crime for a Christian to preach Jesus is Lord and Savior,and a personal God.
God will allow the world to go against the truth for 7 years,and when the 7 years are over then judgement day comes.
And the 6 trumpets is not the wrath of God but warnings to turn to God and repent of their sins,for God gives people a chance to turn to Him before He judges them,but after the sixth trumpet God said they did not repent of their sins,which they did not turn to God,but kept trying to achieve peace on earth,and upholding their own religious belief,so He gives them the beast to rule over them.
An example is WW1,did not turn to God,set up League of Nations,WW2,did not turn to God,set up United Nations,and that pattern will continue until God gives them the beast to rule over them.
The judgment day is a ways off from now,and there is no pre-trib resurrection,for Paul said when they say Peace and safety which starts the 7 years period the saints will not be deceived by that so the saints are on earth,and repentance and salvation is still available to the world,and the last three and one half years the beast makes war against the saints,and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people then all things are finished in Daniel,which then comes the end when the Son shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,when He shall have put down all power and authority on earth.
But during the 7 years there is still power and authority among the people,and the beast has power to rule for the last three and one half years,so his power and authority over people does not end until the three and one half years is over,which is the end of the 7 years period,and the saints will be gathered unto Christ when He puts down all power and authority which happens when the 7 years is over.
If the wrath of God was in the 7 years period then they would not have power and authority but they do,and during the first half the ten horn kingdom rules which is the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and during the last half the beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues.
When the 7 years is over then their power and authority is over,and then the resurrection on earth happens,then judgment day happens leading up to the battle of Armageddon which God defeats the world,and the saints shall possess the kingdom.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
When the pre-trib resurrection does not happen it will overthrow the faith of many and they will end up following the world.
It is like Mary Baxter saying she had a vision of heaven and hell,which she did not,for John already told us about heaven,and the Bible tells us all we need to know about hell that it is hot and dark,and the lost cannot see anything anyway,for her to have to describe it.
The Bible tells us all we need to know,and nobody has to have a vision from God concerning what is already wrote in the Bible,unless it is God operating in the Church for the salvation of people.
It is like the story of the rich man and Lazarus,when the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to tell his brothers of the place of torment he was at,and Abraham said they have the word of Moses,let them hear him,but the rich man said but if Lazarus went to them they would believe,and Abraham said if they do not hear Moses they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them.
They did not have a vision,and the Bible already told us all we need to know of the end time,and heaven and hell,and if they do not hear the word of God they will not believe even if one rose from the dead and told them.
John told us of heaven,hell is hot and dark,and we already have information concerning the end time,so no one needs a vision to explain anything,and there is already many saints telling of the end time correctly by the knowledge of the Bible,without someone having a vision to tell us.
God is giving the world 7 years to have their way to cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,so He can end this sin business on earth,and then it is judgement day after the 7 years is over,and the nations have not come together as one and said Peace and safety yet,in which starts the beginning of the 7 years.
God will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,and the world has not given up on Him for the Gospel is still allowed to be preached in the world,and as long as one nation can preach the Gospel freely,and all the others did not it still is not considered giving up on God,for it has to be all nations involved against the truth before it is considered the world giving up on God,with the exception of Israel for God will turn them to the truth.
It is when the world comes together and does not allow the truth to be preached among all nations that will be when the world will have given up on God,which at that time the saints will be hated of all nations,which the only religion they will tolerate will be spiritual evolution through nature because they believe people are still evolving,giving heed to the God of forces,or the power of nature as their higher power,and it will be a hate crime for a Christian to preach Jesus is Lord and Savior,and a personal God.
God will allow the world to go against the truth for 7 years,and when the 7 years are over then judgement day comes.
And the 6 trumpets is not the wrath of God but warnings to turn to God and repent of their sins,for God gives people a chance to turn to Him before He judges them,but after the sixth trumpet God said they did not repent of their sins,which they did not turn to God,but kept trying to achieve peace on earth,and upholding their own religious belief,so He gives them the beast to rule over them.
An example is WW1,did not turn to God,set up League of Nations,WW2,did not turn to God,set up United Nations,and that pattern will continue until God gives them the beast to rule over them.
The judgment day is a ways off from now,and there is no pre-trib resurrection,for Paul said when they say Peace and safety which starts the 7 years period the saints will not be deceived by that so the saints are on earth,and repentance and salvation is still available to the world,and the last three and one half years the beast makes war against the saints,and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people then all things are finished in Daniel,which then comes the end when the Son shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,when He shall have put down all power and authority on earth.
But during the 7 years there is still power and authority among the people,and the beast has power to rule for the last three and one half years,so his power and authority over people does not end until the three and one half years is over,which is the end of the 7 years period,and the saints will be gathered unto Christ when He puts down all power and authority which happens when the 7 years is over.
If the wrath of God was in the 7 years period then they would not have power and authority but they do,and during the first half the ten horn kingdom rules which is the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and during the last half the beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues.
When the 7 years is over then their power and authority is over,and then the resurrection on earth happens,then judgment day happens leading up to the battle of Armageddon which God defeats the world,and the saints shall possess the kingdom.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
When the pre-trib resurrection does not happen it will overthrow the faith of many and they will end up following the world.
I'm not posting warnings for true Christians who live the Gospel. This would be directed at those of us who struggle with various issues and find it difficult at times to focus on the truth. One example is depression and more serious issues of spiritual oppression (i.e., PTSD type distress). both of these issues can create a "mental fog" that can degrade into a kind of stupor, that is difficult to overcome alone, and they can come from constant lack of discipline, procrastination, etc... which can lead to making bad decisions, or neglecting vital things, such as a marriage relationship, job, church responsibilities, and people can fall into temptation that Jesus warned about, that can turn into serious spiritual blindness. Jesus referred to this as "being asleep," so we should "watch and pray."
This is a very real and dire trap of life, especially the Christian life.
John warned about it:
"And now, dear children, remain in fellowship with Christ so that when he returns, you will be full of courage and not shrink back from him in shame." (1 John 2:28; NLT, biblehub.com)
(John is talking to believers here, who drifted away)
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23; KJV; biblehub.com) --This is a dire warning from Jesus for those who claimed to know Him, but continued or fell into temptation
"After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, 'Lord, open the door for us.' But he will reply, 'I do not know where you are from.'" (Luke 13:25; biblehub.com)
--This is one of the most frightening warnings in the Bible--those who were not vigilant and ready and and did not keep their lamps burning
These are not warnings for true Christians, but for those who fall into the many traps of the world, like religious idolatry, country club Christianity, entertainment Christianity, building our own kingdoms, etc...
Just as Jesus warned:
18 “Now listen to the explanation of the parable about the farmer planting seeds:19 The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message about the Kingdom and don’t understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches away the seed that was planted in their hearts.20 The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy.21 But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word.22 The seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God’s word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and the lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced.23 The seed that fell on good soil represents those who truly hear and understand God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!” (Matthew 13:18-23; NLT; biblegateway.com)
"Be sober-minded, be alert. Your adversary the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour." (1 Peter 5:8; CSB; biblegateway.com)
Tragically, those who do not heed these warnings, can end up being deceived by cults, even well meaning Christian churches, or putting their faith in a formal church before a relationship with the LORD.
The Bible is clear that there will be those who fall away, or who were only Christians in name only, who can end up being told by the Lord, that He never knew them. That's why these warnings are important to all Christians, especially those who may be floundering, since we have a higher accountability for rewards in Heaven, or the worse-case scenario--totally missing the target and being condemned.
Proverbs 9:10New King James Version (NKJV)
10 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
(biblegateway.com)
This is a very real and dire trap of life, especially the Christian life.
John warned about it:
"And now, dear children, remain in fellowship with Christ so that when he returns, you will be full of courage and not shrink back from him in shame." (1 John 2:28; NLT, biblehub.com)
(John is talking to believers here, who drifted away)
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23; KJV; biblehub.com) --This is a dire warning from Jesus for those who claimed to know Him, but continued or fell into temptation
"After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, 'Lord, open the door for us.' But he will reply, 'I do not know where you are from.'" (Luke 13:25; biblehub.com)
--This is one of the most frightening warnings in the Bible--those who were not vigilant and ready and and did not keep their lamps burning
These are not warnings for true Christians, but for those who fall into the many traps of the world, like religious idolatry, country club Christianity, entertainment Christianity, building our own kingdoms, etc...
Just as Jesus warned:
18 “Now listen to the explanation of the parable about the farmer planting seeds:19 The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message about the Kingdom and don’t understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches away the seed that was planted in their hearts.20 The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy.21 But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word.22 The seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God’s word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and the lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced.23 The seed that fell on good soil represents those who truly hear and understand God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!” (Matthew 13:18-23; NLT; biblegateway.com)
"Be sober-minded, be alert. Your adversary the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour." (1 Peter 5:8; CSB; biblegateway.com)
Tragically, those who do not heed these warnings, can end up being deceived by cults, even well meaning Christian churches, or putting their faith in a formal church before a relationship with the LORD.
The Bible is clear that there will be those who fall away, or who were only Christians in name only, who can end up being told by the Lord, that He never knew them. That's why these warnings are important to all Christians, especially those who may be floundering, since we have a higher accountability for rewards in Heaven, or the worse-case scenario--totally missing the target and being condemned.
Proverbs 9:10New King James Version (NKJV)
10 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
(biblegateway.com)
What really gets me is how many will attack the rapture doctrine, like it will send millions to Hell.
There's a simple answer to stop it all... let everyone believe pre, mid, & post comings.
It's like this. If we study all 3, we will all be ready.
If the tribulation starts without the rapture, then it's one of the other 2.
If it doesn't happen mid, then it's the last one.
A truly prepared christian will be prepared no matter what.
What we all ought to be shouting together is JESUS IS COMING!!!, because He is!!!
There's a simple answer to stop it all... let everyone believe pre, mid, & post comings.
It's like this. If we study all 3, we will all be ready.
If the tribulation starts without the rapture, then it's one of the other 2.
If it doesn't happen mid, then it's the last one.
A truly prepared christian will be prepared no matter what.
What we all ought to be shouting together is JESUS IS COMING!!!, because He is!!!
Valliabt, the Thing is that christians useing different exergetic and hermeneutic methods. If you use the literal method you will easy come to pre trib. And that that the believers will Meet the Lord in the air, what we Call rapture. 1. Thess.4,16ff
And I suppose you prefer not the literal Way. So we will never come to one mind in this matter.
And I suppose you prefer not the literal Way. So we will never come to one mind in this matter.
H
Your last paragraph is conjecture.
I could just as easy say when AC appears you will worship him thinking it is Jesus.
And then spout " see there,what a horrible danger the post trib rapture doctrine is"???
But what is the point?
See,we bereans don't need or use such foolishness. The pretrib rapture is solid bible doctrine. Solid.
I could just as easy say when AC appears you will worship him thinking it is Jesus.
And then spout " see there,what a horrible danger the post trib rapture doctrine is"???
But what is the point?
See,we bereans don't need or use such foolishness. The pretrib rapture is solid bible doctrine. Solid.