Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48,803
#48,803
DJ2 said:
The context of James 2:24 is a background of confronting the error of faith only theology. James was teaching against the nonsense of faith alone theology. This is why he wrote "faith alone".

The context of Romans 4:5 is an issue of Judaizers attempting to teach the need for Old Testament laws in the life of Christians in addition to the commands of Christ. This is why he did not write "faith alone".

James clearly states faith by itself is useless.
Paul clearly states that circumcision is useless.

I hope this answers your question.
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The context of james is people who CLAIM to have faith, but are hearers of the word only. It has nothing to do with faith alone. It is a dead faith

A dead’s faith is no faith at all. It is not faiht alone. Faiht is NEVER ALONE

James did not contradict paul. You people want to make the Bible apposed to its self. Why you can not see this amazes me
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48,804
#48,804
DJ2 said:
And faith is a relative term, hence this debate.

To those who profess faith alone regeneration theology, beware. The total lack of any verse stating such a notion should cause concern in the mind of any honest seeker. This lack of concern is rather telling of the motives of those pushing this belief system. I have challenged many to point out any verse that definitively supports this core belief, as of yet I have seen nothing. The most common response are general statements such as post # 48773.

Maybe it is because they are looking for the wrong phrase. Here is a list of phrases that the faith only sects can search for:

1. it is faith alone
2. it is belief alone
3. it is trust alone
4. it is faith exclusively
5. it is faith and nothing else
6. it is merely faith
7. it is just faith
8. it is nothing other than faith
9. it is singularly faith
10. it is uniquely faith
11. it is particularly faith
12. it is individually faith
13. it is without exception faith
14. it is wholly faith
15. it is entirely faith
16. it is completely faith
17. it is solely faith

Don't limit yourself to one version of the Bible, try using Bible Gateway its faster. If after all of this you still cannot find your "faith only" verse, explain why scriptures such as Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, 1st Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16 etc even exist if we are saved without them.

Isn't it time to take off the "faith only" filters and accept the Bible for what it does say and not what we want it to say?
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There is no such thing as faith alone. So your barking up the wrong tree.

Faith is NEVER ALONE
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#48,805
#48,805
Well, I would think, neither does anyone else.

You can be cryptic if you like.

I won't be....Works have no part in receiving the gift of eternal life, neither do works maintain the gift of eternal life neither does the lack of works cause one to lose the gift of eternal life.:)

Our works are a result of our restored relationship with God and they come from His righteousness within us, and they glorify Him.

Eternal life is received when we are born again in Christ

The Gospel message is consistent in the New Testament

It is summarized quite well in this verse

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Ephesians 2:8








DJ2 said:
I believe what the Bible does say not what it does not say.
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UnderGrace

Guest
#48,806
#48,806
I disagree:)


Just so people know I am not an EG follower..... LOL

Dead faith is inoperative faith


eternally-gratefull said:
The context of james is people who CLAIM to have faith, but are hearers of the word only. It has nothing to do with faith alone. It is a dead faith

A dead’s faith is no faith at all. It is not faiht alone. Faiht is NEVER ALONE

James did not contradict paul. You people want to make the Bible apposed to its self. Why you can not see this amazes me
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blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#48,807
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,602
113
#48,807
Umm, that's the same thing EG is saying. :confused: That "inoperative" or dead faith is a faith with no good works in it...


UnderGrace said:
I disagree:)


Just so people know I am not an EG follower..... LOL

Dead faith is inoperative faith
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UnderGrace

Guest
#48,808
#48,808
I guess it depends on what he means by


A dead’s faith is no faith at all.
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This statement to me means not existent, how can it be non-existent?

If it is dead it existed at some point, that is what James is saying.

Only EG can clarify....but I do have a feeling we do not agree.:)




blue_ladybug said:
Umm, that's the same thing EG is saying. :confused: That "inoperative" or dead faith is a faith with no good works in it...
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#48,809
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#48,809
DJ2 said:
Which rules out grace alone.
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Perhaps you misunderstand grace? It is more than unmerited favor, but the gift of Holy Spirit who works within us.

I have no issue with grace alone. All that we need to live godly in this life is by grace. We can't resist the one who loves us more than life. He proved it by giving His all, that we might have all in His will. Inheriting Him. The new covenant.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#48,810
#48,810
I actually have not idea what DJ2 meant?

But I agree with you it is more than unmerited favour:)

stonesoffire said:
Perhaps you misunderstand grace? It is more than unmerited favor, but the gift of Holy Spirit who works within us.

I have no issue with grace alone. All that we need to live godly in this life is by grace. We can't resist the one who loves us more than life. He proved it by giving His all, that we might have all in His will. Inheriting Him. The new covenant.
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Ralph-

Guest
#48,812
#48,812
mailmandan said:
Amen! Love is the greater of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will be the eternal, governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do.
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Or maybe it's greatest because it's the thing that counts.

Faith and hope are like having a handful of popcorn seeds, while love is the buttery over flowing bowl of fluffy popcorn that comes from those seeds. That's what counts. That's our goal. Produce the mature fruit of the kingdom. Don't just have seeds, have what those seeds produce.
 
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Ralph-

Guest
#48,813
#48,813
UnderGrace said:
I guess it depends on what he means by




This statement to me means not existent, how can it be non-existent?

If it is dead it existed at some point, that is what James is saying.

Only EG can clarify....but I do have a feeling we do not agree.:)
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He's saying faith that does not work is a fake faith to begin with. It's the kind of faith that even demons have, James says. Even they believe that God exists, and even that Jesus is the Messiah. But they do not have faith that their sins are forgiven by this God who they know exists. If they did, they'd have works to show that they have that 'kind' of faith.

The kind of faith demons have can not save you. You can tell that's the only kind of faith you have by if it's producing the fruit of the kingdom or not. Faith in God's forgiveness, not just faith that he exists, is what brings the Holy Spirit into our hearts and makes us new creations who do new things.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#48,814
#48,814
James never says fake faith, you are adding to the text.

Ralph- said:
He's saying faith that does not work is a fake faith to begin with. It's the kind of faith that even demons have, James says. Even they believe that God exists, and even that Jesus is the Messiah. But they do not have faith that their sins are forgiven by this God who they know exists. If they did, they'd have works to show that they have that 'kind' of faith.

The kind of faith demons have can not save you. You can tell that's the only kind of faith you have by if it's producing the fruit of the kingdom or not.
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48,815
#48,815
UnderGrace said:
I disagree:)


Just so people know I am not an EG follower..... LOL

Dead faith is inoperative faith
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:p Love ya sis

We could look at it this way.

A dead body is not a person, It can not think, it can not walk, it can not love, it can not work, it can not teach, it can not drive etc etc etc. because it is dead (the things which gives life is gone)

A dead faith is not a living faith, It can not work. The things which gives it life is missing
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48,817
#48,817
UnderGrace said:
I guess it depends on what he means by




This statement to me means not existent, how can it be non-existent?

If it is dead it existed at some point, that is what James is saying.

Only EG can clarify....but I do have a feeling we do not agree.:)
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:)

Before I came to Christ and was born again, I was dead. I was born dead, And I remained dead until I was brought to life (born again)

My life never existed until I was made alive by God.

My life never existed until my faith became life. Until then,. My faith and my life was always dead.

Does this make sense?
 
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Ralph-

Guest
#48,818
#48,818
UnderGrace said:
James never says fake faith, you are adding to the text.
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Fake faith-faith that believes that God exists that passes itself off as the faith that God has forgiven your sins in Jesus Christ.

It's not enough to believe the gospel is true. You must believe that it is for you and that you have received it for the asking. Your life from that point forward will reveal if you really received the gospel in faith and don't just merely believe it's true. I've met many unconverted people who won't argue about the existence of God and the reality of the gospel, but they have never received the free gift of redemption by faith. They have a faith that can not save them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48,819
#48,819
stonesoffire said:
Perhaps you misunderstand grace? It is more than unmerited favor, but the gift of Holy Spirit who works within us.

I have no issue with grace alone. All that we need to live godly in this life is by grace. We can't resist the one who loves us more than life. He proved it by giving His all, that we might have all in His will. Inheriting Him. The new covenant.
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Grace alone means just that. Grace alone. (void of any works)

We can either earn what we have, and thus it is a reward or wage (works) or we are given what we have as a gift, because we can not earn it (grace)
 
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