Not By Works

[VCO]

We all know works do not justify. Works are required for another reason.

Saved people have works, or else they're not really saved. That's why works are required. Even your 'once saved always saved' doctrine says you have to have works or else you were never saved to begin with. That makes works required to be saved, or else you were never saved to begin with.

So stop arguing with us when we say you have to have works to be saved. We agree with the part of your once saved always saved doctrine that says a person has to have works, and never cease to have works, or else they are not born again.

NO, it is HOW it is the HOLY SPIRIT that can get you to LOVE GOD, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

It is that the LOVE GOD put in your heart, via the Holy Spirit {Rom. 5:5}, that HE produces in you that KIND of LOVE FOR GOD.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


1 John 4:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love because He first loved us.

Romans 4:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.


You appear to have the the WRONG motive for your works.


Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[preacher4truth]

 

[stillness]

in understanding interpretation of parables feet represents us: the message of peace on our feet as we walk as Jesus walked, "How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of Him who brings good news, proclaiming peace announcing new of renewal."

Why we are His feet should be simple to understand, He is the head of the Church. Some have said we are His hands and feet, but this is not accurate as we are not doing the work, Mark 16:20, Acts 4:30, we just carry the message.

 

[Ralph-]

I am telling you now, as I have told you in the past, that people who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians5:21

This is what I've been trying to tell budman.
There's a difference between the saint who sins and the unbeliever who lives in sin.

He doesn't seem to know that he's condemning himself when he says that even believers who sin are practicing sin. Paul said those who are still living in their old lives and practicing sin will not inherit the kingdom. The person who is doing that needs to be born again.

The argument seems to be that if I'm already born again and I can't lose my salvation then not inheriting the kingdom because I'm living in my old life does not apply to me. That's making grace a license to sin. Grace doesn't make it so that Galatians 5:19-21 doesn't apply to you even though you are practicing sin. What is being ignored is living in your old life means you are not born again-1 John 3:8. That's not promoting a works gospel. That's just what the Bible says.

 

[Ralph-]

NO, it is HOW it is the HOLY SPIRIT that can get you to LOVE GOD, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

Works have nothing to do with receiving salvation when you first get saved. You don't get saved now in preparation for the return of Christ through works. Everyone knows this.

But works have lots to do with being saved from the flames when Jesus comes back because the person who is living in sin is showing themselves to not have the love of God in them in salvation. That's not a works gospel. That's right out of your own Calvinist theology.

 

[Studyman]

Did you see that my question was aimed at another? Did you notice the attitude of the other? If nobody has deliberately slandered you by posting their vain imaginations pulled out of their nether regions, and placing them on the boards for all to see as if their paranoid delusions were facts, then perhaps you have been fortunate No doubt such people believe the lies they tell, which just goes to show how deceived they are. I think we both know very well many of the reasons why people lie. Will they lose the promise of life ever after if they do?

I think people who purposefully tell lies about God and His Word to deceive them into sin will not be allowed into eternity.

 

[BillG]

I see you believe your future sins are forgiven, a major belief in hypergrace/freegrace.

I remember the old OSAS. They believed you had to confess, repent & be forgiven.

Nuff said.

Not HG or freegrace. Never heard of freegrace.

As for me
When I mess up I confess it to God. Acknowledge I messed up, say sorry ask for help to grow in him and thank him that I have been forgiven. Then the relationship is restored. I have received parenteral forgiveness.

Are we not juducialy forgiven when we genuinely come to Jesus in faith?

Just so you know before you suggest it I'm not one who thinks it's ok to user the grace of God as a licence to sin either.

 

[Budman]

I'll give you one more chance so people can see what you and others are pushing here.

Since you are sure there is no distinction between the sinning that a believer does and the 'living in sin' that an unbeliever does, what makes it so Galatians 5:21, and other passages about not inheriting the kingdom, does not apply to you?

Think it through before you answer.

I see you're not man enough to own up to your false accusation against me and apologize. It's no wonder, looking through this thread, that many people have accused you of bearing false witness.

It's also no wonder you fail to answer what I wrote directly.

But, I'm going to try again.

Let me ask you Ralph, can a Christian lie?

Can a Christian steal something?

Can a Christian even murder?

A simple "yes" or "no" to those will do.

You, from atop your self-righteous high horse, thunder down about the rest of us who are "living in sin" when you yourself are just as guilty.

God demands perfection, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. "Be ye perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" is the command. (Matthew 5:28)

Are you perfect 24/7/365, Ralph.

Then guess what - you are sinning - constantly!

"Love the Lord thy God with with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength" is the command. (Mark 12:30)

Do you do that, Ralph?

Then guess what - you are sinning - constantly!

For your view to be correct, either God overrides our free will at conversion and forces us to do good works with never an opportunity afforded to us to refuse, or, the sin of rebellion for refusing to do a good work is attributed to us. In that case, the blood of Jesus did not cleanse us from all sin - past, present, and future, but only up to the moment of conversion.

But the Bible says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. So, no good work is going to get any sins forgiven after conversion, because Jesus is not coming back to die for sins again.

And yet again, even a single sin attributed to us, such as a lie, will cause us to be thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 21:8).

So, which is it, Ralph?

 

[Studyman]

Blah blah blah nothing of value comes from your working for sad joke religion....same garbage Cain pushed

The preaching that Jesus rejected the Pharisees because they followed God's Commandments "blameless" is a false teaching. All your insults and deflection can not change Biblical fact.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

No Decon, Paul followed the Pharisees "Commandments of Men" "Blameless", not God's Laws.

Why won't you even consider the Words of Jesus and Paul and Jeremiah regarding the doctrines the Pharisees taught and followed?

Why and maybe more importantly, how can you look at the Word's of Jesus, Paul, Jeremiah, and God and knowingly, purposely flat out reject them?

If it isn't Jesus Word's that inspire you, then whose word are you preaching?

 

[Ralph-]

I see you're not man enough to own up to your false accusation against me and apologize. It's no wonder, looking through this thread, that many people have accused you of bearing false witness.

It's also no wonder you fail to answer what I wrote directly.

But, I'm going to try again.

Let me ask you Ralph, can a Christian lie?

Can a Christian steal something?

Can a Christian even murder?

A simple "yes" or "no" to those will do.

You, from atop your self-righteous high horse, thunder down about the rest of us who are "living in sin" when you yourself are just as guilty.

God demands perfection, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. "Be ye perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" is the command. (Matthew 5:28)

Are you perfect 24/7/365, Ralph.

Then guess what - you are sinning - constantly!

"Love the Lord thy God with with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength" is the command. (Mark 12:30)

Do you do that, Ralph?

Then guess what - you are sinning - constantly!

For your view to be correct, either God overrides our free will at conversion and forces us to do good works with never an opportunity afforded to us to refuse, or, the sin of rebellion for refusing to do a good work is attributed to us. In that case, the blood of Jesus did not cleanse us from all sin - past, present, and future, but only up to the moment of conversion.

But the Bible says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. So, no good work is going to get any sins forgiven after conversion, because Jesus is not coming back to die for sins again.

And yet again, even a single sin attributed to us, such as a lie, will cause us to be thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 21:8).

So, which is it, Ralph?

First off, your accusations will be ignored. I am wise enough to know, that is the devil trying to get me with occupied with defending myself instead of sharing the truth. Secondly, I already answered your question.


Now to point which you seem set on evading.

If you are insisting there is no difference between sin-1 John 1:8, and the practice of sin-1 John 3:9 what makes it so the warning that those who live in and practice sin won't inherit the kingdom doesn't apply to you?

And just so it's clear that there really the difference between the sin of the believer and the practice of sin of the unbeliever, read these verses side by side.


"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." 1 John 1:10

"9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."-1 John 3:9


See, it's impossible that John is saying out one side of his mouth that believers sin, and then say out the other side of his mouth that the person who practices sins is not born again. There HAS to be a difference between the sinning in the first verse and the practicing of sin in the second. There HAS to be.

And here's what Paul says is the fate of the one who John says practices sin and is not born again.


"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."-Galatians 5:19-21


So, are you still going to claim you practice sin? If so, your fate is very clearly defined for us by Paul.


The important matter here which I want to bring to the light, is why you think you can practice sin and avoid the warning of not inheriting the kingdom while others can't?

 

[Budman]

First off, your accusations will be ignored. I am wise enough to know that is the devil trying to get with occupied with defending myself instead of sharing the truth.

Wow. You lie, and then blame the devil.

Astonishing, but predicable.

And what also is predicable is you ignoring again the specific facts presented and instead, going into your well practiced spiel.

I wouldn't be surprised a bit if you simply copy/paste your little speeches to save time.

I'm going to follow the example of many others here, and put you on ignore. Your lying and refusal to own up to it are enough to prove you are not what you claim you are.

 

[Ralph-]

The important matter here which I want to bring to the light, is why you think you can practice sin and avoid the warning of not inheriting the kingdom while others can't?

I would like eternally-gratefull and McGee to answer the question too, since they liked budman's post.

 

[Ralph-]

I'm going to follow the example of many others here, and put you on ignore. Your lying and refusal to own up to it are enough to prove you are not what you claim you are.

Or you could just answer my question and put me in my place.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

3191. meletaó ►
Strong's Concordance
meletaó: to care for, practice, study
Original Word: μελετάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: meletaó
Phonetic Spelling: (mel-et-ah'-o)
Short Definition: I devise, plan
Definition: I devise, plan; practice, exercise myself in, study, ponder.
______________________

who said those born of God exercise, study, plan and devise sins?

i liked his post because he pointed out many of your lies and asked some good questions i knew you would avoid at all costs

you love to pick and choose what to reply to from posts

and reply with false accusations and attempts to bait an emotional response


also false understandings of other beliefs trying to get them to mess up so you can say "aha i gotcha"

like your whole garbage about saying those who are born again claim to have a license to sin

 

[NoNameMcgee]

3191. meletaó ►
Strong's Concordance
meletaó: to care for, practice, study
Original Word: μελετάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: meletaó
Phonetic Spelling: (mel-et-ah'-o)
Short Definition: I devise, plan
Definition: I devise, plan; practice, exercise myself in, study, ponder.
______________________

who said those born of God exercise, study, plan and devise sins?

i liked his post because he pointed out many of your lies and asked some good questions i knew you would avoid at all costs

you love to pick and choose what to reply to from posts

and reply with false accusations and attempts to bait an emotional response


also false understandings of other beliefs trying to get them to mess up so you can say "aha i gotcha"

like your whole garbage about saying those who are born again claim to have a license to sin

3543. nomizó ►
Strong's Concordance
nomizó: to practice, consider
Original Word: νομίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nomizó
Phonetic Spelling: (nom-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I think, suppose
Definition: I practice, hold by custom; I deem, think, consider, suppose.

(or hold by custom...)

 

[Rosemaryx]

1 John 3:9 [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God...[/FONT]

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Before I was born again, I sinned the same sin over and over and over, that is how I became a drunk, a drug addict and a few other things...Today since being born again I do not PRACTICE these sins because I have the Holy Spirit guiding me, He is directing my paths, but although I have not touched drugs for 8 years ( God i believe was preparing my heart before H[/FONT]e called me )[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
I still do very occasionally have a drink, but I do not practice this habit any more...

We stumble because we are flesh, the word I think Ralph is emphasising is PRACTICE..Anyone who PRACTICES their sinful behaviour is not a true disciple...Ralph, the people who the LORD will say " Go away I never knew you will be the people who have a lovely shiny clean appearance on the outside for people to look at, but at home in their abode inside is rotten, just like themselves, all show for " Look at me, and what I have done for you Lord "...

God looks at our heart 1 Samuel 16:7 [/FONT]But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."...

These are the people who will not get into Heaven, those who have no heart towards God, people pleasers not lovers of Jesus...Thank God that His mercy for us is new every morning, every morning is full off fresh grace...Praise the LORD Oh my soul Praise the LORD forever more \/...Ralph, do you not think we are children of God with crooked paths that God is making straight, you yourself have bends and dents that need hammering out, but you like all in here I am sure are persevering until the end just as we are told to do, and those who remain in their old lifestyle, well they obviously do not have the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is He who helps us, the Spirit of truth...xox...

 

[gb9]

Or you could just answer my question and put me in my place.

with apologizes to the others involved- here is your answer- it is not your ( or anyone's ) place to judge who is saved and who is not. you do not know another's heart, what they really think down deep inside.

so there is your answer. don't going around judging people. judge not, you shall not be judged. read that part of the Bible lately ralphie?

 

[preacher4truth]

"Ralph-" I'm worried about you man, you bear false witness on here so often, and have not repented of this to date. This behavior doesn't mix with what you're laying upon others to do. You've not apologized once and carry on as if you're antinomian and can live however you desire. Then you preach the exact opposite. There is a difference between preaching it and living it, and your behavior betrays your preaching.

It's very concerning that you live in this practice. Many have called on you here to repent of this behavior.

 

[stonesoffire]

This is what I've been trying to tell budman.
There's a difference between the saint who sins and the unbeliever who lives in sin.

He doesn't seem to know that he's condemning himself when he says that even believers who sin are practicing sin. Paul said those who are still living in their old lives and practicing sin will not inherit the kingdom. The person who is doing that needs to be born again.

The argument seems to be that if I'm already born again and I can't lose my salvation then not inheriting the kingdom because I'm living in my old life does not apply to me. That's making grace a license to sin. Grace doesn't make it so that Galatians 5:19-21 doesn't apply to you even though you are practicing sin. What is being ignored is living in your old life means you are not born again-1 John 3:8. That's not promoting a works gospel. That's just what the Bible says.

Except that Budman understands what practicing sin means and apparently you don't. Rightly divide ralph.

 

[Endoscopy]

Watch my discussion with budman particularly. You'll see.
He'll deny he's saying that, but I will show you that what he says amounts to dead faith can save.

The bottom line is, many people in the church who live like Galatians 5:21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:5, and 1 John 3:6-9 think those passages don't apply to them because they are already born again. But even the once saved always saved doctrine they use to defend living like that says if you are living that way you are not born again. The only once saved always saved doctrine that says you can live in sin and be born again is the new once saved always saved, but everybody denies they believe that. I'm exposing this lunacy for what it is.

Once saved always saved uses the following verses to say this.

John 10 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.

29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.

30 I and the Father are One.