Free will and God's will
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I said love is not forced.
The law of God says that the sinner shall die. Those that sin will die for eternity. Does God need to obey this law? No He is God and can do what He wants but He did choose to obey or enforce this law but He paid it for us. Fully just and merciful at the same time. God sets laws in place and is just about how He enforces them. People do not have immortal souls so they do not live forever unless they are given salvation and are written in the book of life. (No-one will burn forever)
The control God uses to restrain Satan and his angels is protection for the universe, which is loving. Love is not forced means that God will not force Satan or me or you to love Him. And that He will not force us to recieve His love.
The law of God says that the sinner shall die. Those that sin will die for eternity. Does God need to obey this law? No He is God and can do what He wants but He did choose to obey or enforce this law but He paid it for us. Fully just and merciful at the same time. God sets laws in place and is just about how He enforces them. People do not have immortal souls so they do not live forever unless they are given salvation and are written in the book of life. (No-one will burn forever)
The control God uses to restrain Satan and his angels is protection for the universe, which is loving. Love is not forced means that God will not force Satan or me or you to love Him. And that He will not force us to recieve His love.
D
I truly believe many do not understand. Most don't. And even when someone comes to understand it, it doesn't have to mean he/she agrees with it. Calvinism doesn't save. All it does it make the Bible easier to understand, and makes the Lord easier for us to understand.
But none of that says who Magenta is. Magenta does understand. She just doesn't like the God she cannot control, and then gets mad at others for accepting the one and only God.
She gets it. She hates it. Right now, she also hates God. I don't know if that's backsliding or what, but she has put herself -- by her own choice no less -- on the path of degrading anyone who disagrees with her.
I've been praying the Lord softens her heart again.
But none of that says who Magenta is. Magenta does understand. She just doesn't like the God she cannot control, and then gets mad at others for accepting the one and only God.
She gets it. She hates it. Right now, she also hates God. I don't know if that's backsliding or what, but she has put herself -- by her own choice no less -- on the path of degrading anyone who disagrees with her.
I've been praying the Lord softens her heart again.
D
Fate, as defined by Wiki
Traditional usage defines fate as a power or agency that predetermines and orders the course of events. Fate defines events as ordered or "inevitable" and unavoidable. This is a concept based on the belief that there is a fixed natural order to the universe, and in some conceptions, the cosmos. Classical and European mythology feature personified "fate spinners," known as the Moirai in Greek mythology, the Parcae in Roman mythology, and the Norns in Norse mythology. They determine the events of the world through the mystic spinning of threads that represent individual human fates. Fate is often conceived as being divinely inspired.
If you're into mystical thread-spinners, then maybe you do believe in Fate. But, I'm a Christian. I don't believe there is a fixed natural order to the universe. I don't believe there a mythical feature is personified. I don't believe there is a "they" determining events. I believe there is one sovereign God. And he never divinely inspired some thing called "fate."
Traditional usage defines fate as a power or agency that predetermines and orders the course of events. Fate defines events as ordered or "inevitable" and unavoidable. This is a concept based on the belief that there is a fixed natural order to the universe, and in some conceptions, the cosmos. Classical and European mythology feature personified "fate spinners," known as the Moirai in Greek mythology, the Parcae in Roman mythology, and the Norns in Norse mythology. They determine the events of the world through the mystic spinning of threads that represent individual human fates. Fate is often conceived as being divinely inspired.
If you're into mystical thread-spinners, then maybe you do believe in Fate. But, I'm a Christian. I don't believe there is a fixed natural order to the universe. I don't believe there a mythical feature is personified. I don't believe there is a "they" determining events. I believe there is one sovereign God. And he never divinely inspired some thing called "fate."
D
Do you believe God's mind is perfect? Truly perfect, as in not one whoopsie, not one missed thing, not one error?
If you don't, then why bother with God at all? If he's not perfect, he's no more or no less than we are.
If you do, than back at you -- What was the deal with God changing his mind? To change from perfect has to mean impoerfect, so why would God do the imperfect?
In the case of Moses, by the time that happened, God had spent over 430 years planning an executing creating himself a nation. It started with one dude in Ur minding his own business (raising sheep. lol) He told that one guy to leave his own land because God was going to make a nation out of him. He even showed him where that promised land would be and why he couldn't do it yet. And much to Abraham's surprise, God kept his word. (Oh, come on. Get real. If you're in your 70s and God tells you your going to have a son, you might believe him. But if it's 15 years later, and you don't have the son yet, and your wife is postmenopausal, so never giving you a son, you're going to be shocked when she does give you a son, just like God promised. Not faulting Abraham for being surprised. lol)
And much to the surprise of everyone, Issac, and then Jacob, had sons. Jacob had a lot of them. And it took 400 more years for those people -- by then slaves -- to get to the point of heading to that promise land. The number is staggering. Counting the women and children, roughly the size of Chicago walked across that dried out sea to go to that Promise Land. Same walk took Jacob a few days to take. Took them 40 years!
All that, and you think God is going to change his mind and start over? He was angry. He hit all the way to wrathful. He did want to wipe them out and start over. BUT what happened? Moses begged for mercy! BEGGED!
Look back through the whole of the Bible for mercy beggars. There were a lot of them. I remember Lot. Lot begged for mercy over Sodom and Gomorrah. (Not 50, Lord. How about ten?) This wasn't the only time Moses begged. David begged. Peter begged! Paul begged! Every single person who ever came to the Lord begged. YOU begged! I begged!
Why? Because God tells us to have mercy. And because God is merciful. God wanted to wipe that lot out right smack at the bottom of that mountain. He did not, because Moses begged. And Moses begged, because God had given him plenty of mercy already! (Oh, come on. Moses did NOT want to be the leader. He did NOT want to go to Pharaoh. He didn't even want to be their leader at times when he was their leader. And yet, God gave him mercy and strength. Strength enough to ask for mercy for the others.)
God had a plan. Part of his plan -- a huge part -- is to show his mercy. And because of that, he sometimes honors his peeps when they beg for mercy, by giving mercy. Perfect mind/will begat perfect mind/will. I'm very thankful for that, as I beg his mercy often. And when he gives me mercy, I also know that was part of his plan all along, because sure enough, he got me to ask for mercy.
If you don't, then why bother with God at all? If he's not perfect, he's no more or no less than we are.
If you do, than back at you -- What was the deal with God changing his mind? To change from perfect has to mean impoerfect, so why would God do the imperfect?
In the case of Moses, by the time that happened, God had spent over 430 years planning an executing creating himself a nation. It started with one dude in Ur minding his own business (raising sheep. lol) He told that one guy to leave his own land because God was going to make a nation out of him. He even showed him where that promised land would be and why he couldn't do it yet. And much to Abraham's surprise, God kept his word. (Oh, come on. Get real. If you're in your 70s and God tells you your going to have a son, you might believe him. But if it's 15 years later, and you don't have the son yet, and your wife is postmenopausal, so never giving you a son, you're going to be shocked when she does give you a son, just like God promised. Not faulting Abraham for being surprised. lol)
And much to the surprise of everyone, Issac, and then Jacob, had sons. Jacob had a lot of them. And it took 400 more years for those people -- by then slaves -- to get to the point of heading to that promise land. The number is staggering. Counting the women and children, roughly the size of Chicago walked across that dried out sea to go to that Promise Land. Same walk took Jacob a few days to take. Took them 40 years!
All that, and you think God is going to change his mind and start over? He was angry. He hit all the way to wrathful. He did want to wipe them out and start over. BUT what happened? Moses begged for mercy! BEGGED!
Look back through the whole of the Bible for mercy beggars. There were a lot of them. I remember Lot. Lot begged for mercy over Sodom and Gomorrah. (Not 50, Lord. How about ten?) This wasn't the only time Moses begged. David begged. Peter begged! Paul begged! Every single person who ever came to the Lord begged. YOU begged! I begged!
Why? Because God tells us to have mercy. And because God is merciful. God wanted to wipe that lot out right smack at the bottom of that mountain. He did not, because Moses begged. And Moses begged, because God had given him plenty of mercy already! (Oh, come on. Moses did NOT want to be the leader. He did NOT want to go to Pharaoh. He didn't even want to be their leader at times when he was their leader. And yet, God gave him mercy and strength. Strength enough to ask for mercy for the others.)
God had a plan. Part of his plan -- a huge part -- is to show his mercy. And because of that, he sometimes honors his peeps when they beg for mercy, by giving mercy. Perfect mind/will begat perfect mind/will. I'm very thankful for that, as I beg his mercy often. And when he gives me mercy, I also know that was part of his plan all along, because sure enough, he got me to ask for mercy.
D
Did you, personally, choose God?
And if you did, what were the pros and cons of that decision?
I mean we look at the pros and cons of a car, if we're buying one. We look at the pros and cons of a job, before we start working there. We look at the pros and cons of a place to live before we choose it. For the important choices we make, we look at pros and cons... and we remember them.
So, if you chose God, what were the pros and cons of that decision? It's a big decision.
(And I have asked that question thousands of times and have never received an answer from anyone.)
And if you did, what were the pros and cons of that decision?
I mean we look at the pros and cons of a car, if we're buying one. We look at the pros and cons of a job, before we start working there. We look at the pros and cons of a place to live before we choose it. For the important choices we make, we look at pros and cons... and we remember them.
So, if you chose God, what were the pros and cons of that decision? It's a big decision.
(And I have asked that question thousands of times and have never received an answer from anyone.)
God's plan toward wicked Nineveh was to destroy them in forty days. Upon hearing this message of destruction, Nineveh repents and cries out to God. God changed His mind based upon Nineveh's response to His word.
God is perfectly just in His actions. He would have been perfectly just in destroying wicked Nineveh. God was perfectly just in sparing repenting Nineveh.
God is perfectly just in His actions. He would have been perfectly just in destroying wicked Nineveh. God was perfectly just in sparing repenting Nineveh.
D
I am NOT a fatalist! It bothers me when people tell others what I am, when I'm not that. And rather than call me that, he (EG) puts it in vague terms that come down to the one word being used too often here -- "they."
It also bothers me when you label other people "open theists" when you aren't randomly calling "them" open theists. You're ticked off at a few people so are grouping all Arminians into the same group.
You're doing the same thing EG is doing -- passive-aggressively lumping everyone into one term. "They," as a word, sucks when all it is used for is to slice-and-dice people.
Two wrongs doesn't make a right, and it's not very godly.
If your theology doesn't become doxology, it's not a good theology.
It also bothers me when you label other people "open theists" when you aren't randomly calling "them" open theists. You're ticked off at a few people so are grouping all Arminians into the same group.
You're doing the same thing EG is doing -- passive-aggressively lumping everyone into one term. "They," as a word, sucks when all it is used for is to slice-and-dice people.
Two wrongs doesn't make a right, and it's not very godly.
If your theology doesn't become doxology, it's not a good theology.