Not By Works

[Ralph-]

Romans 4:5
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

You have no argument from me concerning this truth. You don't seem to grasp that what I'm saying is we know who has that righteousness given solely on the basis of faith by how they act. People who don't show they have the righteousness of Christ in a changed/changing life do not have the righteousness of Christ by faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IT IS ONE THING TO SAY AND CLAIM AND ANOTHER THING TO DO AND WALK THE TALK.

Luke 6:46 The Wise and Foolish Builders “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

who are you preaching to? We preach that Gods children do what he says.. Your yelling at a wall..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you figured out yet Peter that nothing has changed with your dogma......and like the majority of people see right through your shallow, self serving, working for, non savable dogma.....? Serious........!

I think we can be sure no one will buy his drivel. I pray we all can just let him go,

 

[NoNameMcgee]

You have no argument from me concerning this truth. You don't seem to grasp that what I'm saying is we know who has that righteousness given solely on the basis of faith by how they act. People who don't show they have the righteousness of Christ in a changed/changing life do not have the righteousness of Christ by faith.

see
to me it still sounds like youre relying on what you "do"
and "show" before men

can you please when you have time explain to me what you mean "show they have the righteousness of Christ"

 

[Ralph-]

This does not refute what I said.

Eternal life means literally. Live forever. Non of these passages stay eternal life does not mean eternal life.

What does the once saved always saved argument mean if you're not even born again to begin with as evidenced by your unchanged life? It doesn't, of course. It's a distraction that soothes the minds of people who are not born again. It's the great deception of the end times.


(you=anybody)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By the way.

For those of you who think you can clean yourself. You are in serious danger. For the pharisee thought they walked a pure life. In fact they boasted of how holy and righteous they were.

The cross and the blood spilt is what cleanses us. Not how holy we are. Because no matter how holy we THINK we are. The law will still condemn us where we stand.

I pray people do not buy into those who are puffing up how good they are. And how sinful others are. Just remember the pharisee who did the same thing, and the tax collector who got on his knees, who went home justified? The holier than thou pharisee or the sinner on his knee?

 

[Ralph-]

see
to me it still sounds like youre relying on what you "do"
and "show" before men

I know you can only see what I'm saying one way. You are the victim of an indoctrination. That's not an insult. I'm not being snarky or condescending. If you want me to I'll explain what that is and how it works. All of us fall victim to indoctrinations sooner or later.

can you please when you have time explain to me what you mean "show they have the righteousness of Christ"

I will be glad to. Going out the door just now. Talk to you later.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I know you can only see what I'm saying one way. You are the victim of an indoctrination. That's not an insult. I'm not being snarky or condescending.

noooo i dont take it as an insult.... just a false accusation based off lack of knowledge

If you want me to I'll explain what that is and how it works.

nooo thanks God broke me from the exact same false gospel you preached awhile back after much prayer and study

All of us fall victim to indoctrinations sooner or later.

i hope you are delivered from yours... of a temporary and corruptible seed

I will be glad to. Going out the door just now. Talk to you later.

no worries whenever you have time

 

[mj007]

Ok, well try taking your own advice.

By the way.

For those of you who think you can clean yourself. You are in serious danger. For the pharisee thought they walked a pure life. In fact they boasted of how holy and righteous they were.

The cross and the blood spilt is what cleanses us. Not how holy we are. Because no matter how holy we THINK we are. The law will still condemn us where we stand.

I pray people do not buy into those who are puffing up how good they are. And how sinful others are. Just remember the pharisee who did the same thing, and the tax collector who got on his knees, who went home justified? The holier than thou pharisee or the sinner on his knee?

 

[Chester]

[h=1]John 17:3.[/h]

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.​

 

[LightLoveHope]

I know you can only see what I'm saying one way. You are the victim of an indoctrination. That's not an insult. I'm not being snarky or condescending. If you want me to I'll explain what that is and how it works. All of us fall victim to indoctrinations sooner or later.
I will be glad to. Going out the door just now. Talk to you later.

Greetings Ralph,

Yesterday I saw that when you fall in love one is indoctrinated in a kind
of way.

So knowing who Jesus is, how love works, have the Holy Spirit anoint our hearts,
to repent of our sins, and know His cleansing, how broken we are in humbleness and
then raised in praise that He counts us worthy of receiving His mercy, it means we
are a slave to righteousness.

I wondered in this we are not free agents. To deny Christ would be to deny ourselves.
To say love was hurting others and doing damage, would be to lie and call good evil and
evil good.

So this very conversation that we see here is probably the inevitable consequence of
God working in our hearts, and the conclusion of others, likewise, whatever has born fruit
in theirs.

Grace and Peace to you

 

[mj007]

We either try to control our life, with our own will, or we let go of that, and let God control our lives, his will, by having faith.

Greetings Ralph,

Yesterday I saw that when you fall in love one is indoctrinated in a kind
of way.

So knowing who Jesus is, how love works, have the Holy Spirit anoint our hearts,
to repent of our sins, and know His cleansing, how broken we are in humbleness and
then raised in praise that He counts us worthy of receiving His mercy, it means we
are a slave to righteousness.

I wondered in this we are not free agents. To deny Christ would be to deny ourselves.
To say love was hurting others and doing damage, would be to lie and call good evil and
evil good.

So this very conversation that we see here is probably the inevitable consequence of
God working in our hearts, and the conclusion of others, likewise, whatever has born fruit
in theirs.

Grace and Peace to you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, well try taking your own advice.

Well since i am not trying to establish my own righteousness. Or puffing up how good I am. And have always maintained that it is Christ who washes me, has perfected me, and IS sanctifying me, and will continue until the day of Christ.

So not sure what your carrying on about.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We either try to control our life, with our own will, or we let go of that, and let God control our lives, his will, by having faith.

If your doing that your not worrying about sin, or how good you are. Your worrying about who God has placed into you life for you to serve. Your focus is outward not inward.

 

[LightLoveHope]

We either try to control our life, with our own will, or we let go of that, and let God control our lives, his will, by having faith.

When I first came to Christ in a clear way, it was like I was a lost soul who had been
dragged out of the ocean, with my life saved, but destitute, without anything of value
except the offer of service to the King.

This has never left me. Finding a worthy vehical or means has been my goal. What I mean
is to take the gift of love and freedom Christ put within me, and share it with others so they
too can experience it also, a stream of living water flowing from within.

A good brother in Christ has been growing in this, and in his ministry. I pray God might make
this flow more, that the words can be found to help people open up, trust and simple let God
heal and make them whole for the first time.

It seems to me too many broken, hurt vessels claim this is how they should be and stay rather
than going to the Lord to be cleansed, forgiven and made into glorious children of the living
God.

Paul preached this and saw it happen among those who came to faith, so we equally can see
the same today.

Grace and peace to you

 

[LightLoveHope]

When I first came to Christ in a clear way, it was like I was a lost soul who had been
dragged out of the ocean, with my life saved, but destitute, without anything of value
except the offer of service to the King.

This has never left me. Finding a worthy vehical or means has been my goal. What I mean
is to take the gift of love and freedom Christ put within me, and share it with others so they
too can experience it also, a stream of living water flowing from within.

A good brother in Christ has been growing in this, and in his ministry. I pray God might make
this flow more, that the words can be found to help people open up, trust and simple let God
heal and make them whole for the first time.

It seems to me too many broken, hurt vessels claim this is how they should be and stay rather
than going to the Lord to be cleansed, forgiven and made into glorious children of the living
God.

Paul preached this and saw it happen among those who came to faith, so we equally can see
the same today.

Grace and peace to you

What I would like to add to this, is rather than one event in Christ, my life
has been a continuous series of things, some good, some not so good.

God walks with us, when we are pure and Holy, and when we are defiled.
He gives us time to sort ourselves out, and is very patient.

The fact He forgives us, and works through these earthen vessels humbles
me to the point of breaking, yet I have seen it time and again, even when
people went off the rails later.

We forget it is Gods purposes always, not our own, and He uses what He chooses.
Like Elijah, when we are blessed, we think we have reached a special place, rather
we are just servants in the service of the King.

 

[stonesoffire]

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was declared righteous by the works of the law, he has something to boast about – but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his pay is not credited due to grace but due to obligation.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Rom 4:6 So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

And these are The FATHER of FAITH, the "apple of God's eye", Heroes of Faith.
..yet sinned, missed the mark, stumble, against Yahweh.. They are JUSTIFIED, declared righteouss by God.

This is to show , What we "DO" can not, does not, nullify IMPUTED salvation...

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


God Bless!!

Hi walkn...so good to see you again!

Amen to post!

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Belief:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 15:6, "And he believed in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and He reckoned it to him for righteousness.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 15:4-6, "And see, the word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]came to him, saying, “This one is not your heir, but he who comes from your own body is your heir. And He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward the heavens, and count the stars if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So are your seed. And he believed in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and He reckoned it to him for righteousness."[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Works:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 26:4-5, “And I shall increase your seed like the stars of the heavens, and I shall give all these lands to your seed. And in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because Aḇraham obeyed My voice and guarded My Charge: My commands, My laws, and My Torah.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Belief + Works:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:21-22, “Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the altar? Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Belief + Works:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

 

[slave]

Romans 4:5
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

We tend to swing open two separate subject doors from talking about serving God from the premise of working for Salvation, to, living as one who is saved, and many didn't know we switched subjects. It is the supreme discovery of the Christian life that we do not need to torture ourselves with a losing battle to earn God's love but rather need to accept in perfect trust the love which God offers to us. True, after that, any man of honor is under the life-long obligation to show himself worthy of that love. But he is no longer a criminal seeking to obey an impossible law; he is a lover offering his all to one who loved him when he did not deserve it.

Sir James Barrie once told a story about Robert Louis Stevenson. "When Stevenson went to Samoa he built a small hut, and afterwards went into a large house. The first night he went into the large house he was feeling very tired and sorrowful that he had not had the forethought to ask his servant to bring him coffee and, donuts. Just as he was thinking that, the door opened, and the native boy came in with a tray carrying donuts and coffee. And Mr Stevenson said to him, in the native language, 'Great is your forethought'; and the boy corrected him, and said, 'Great is the love.'" The service was rendered, not because of the coercion of servitude, but because of the compulsion of love. That also is the motive of Christian goodness when being obligated to our Lord in our lives.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Whose righteousness is in our life? Only that which Christ has built.
Whose praise is our good works to? Only the Father who enabled us to do them.
Who do we sing to and thank in life? The Lord Jesus Christ and the Father.
What sins are we proud of? None, for we have repented and renounced them all.

We are always sinners who are now saints saved by grace, walking in communion
through the Holy Spirit.

No matter how great, or good, or important we become, we are mere children
of our Lord, and purchased by His blood, counted as His Holy Bride.

In this I see no pride, only brokenness and gratitude to Christ.

Whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ
Philippians 3:7-8

All the believers I know, who I count as saved have the above testimony.
None feel like they have arrived or walk well, rather they feel grace and love
to be counted in Christs body.

This is why I find it hard to recognise pictures people put forward of believers
who are proud of their achievements. I have not met them.

I have met judgmental condemning ex-legalists who insist they have the right
to say who is saved and who is not, and regard certain normal theological views
as demonstrating the evil and lack of being saved in others. By these very attitudes
it is they who exalt themselves and judge others, as if they are God looking down
from on high. And it shows as they have no care how they describe or treat others
who could be fellow believers in the Lord, very very sad.