You seem to have omitted where you copy and pasted this. However, because you have figured out a good style, I know you posted the italics above. I think if it comes off CC, you need to post the actual link, which is done by clicking on the post number, and pressing "copy link." Well, on my computer.
Anyway, getting back to this and every think you post, that you post from someone else it is always the same.
Blah, blah, blah, my opinion, Heb 1:3, paraphrase PART of the verse, blah blah blah. That is simply meaningless. If there is any truth, you certainly have not shown it with the Bible, in all these pages. Nor anyone else in all these posts and threads that go back for years.
(I just want to actually post Heb. 1:3, which is a wonderful verse:
"The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high." Heb 3:1 NET)
Anyway, post which don't use the Bible, just blah, blah, blah, Bible address, my opinion, followed by devotion to a certain man, blah blah.
JM, what I and others want to see is the Bible!
I believe this.
Massive amounts of Scripture, showing context, touching on the words in Hebrew or Greek, and the context the book the large passages of Scripture came from.
We are far beyond these cutsey posts by various people that say nothing, but opinion, and wrong opinions at that.
Well, you probably have me on ignore, because you can't answer my biblical challenges. At all! Nor anyone else's. Instead, you cater to people's basest desires for a perfect life that was never promised in this life time.
I'll leave you with some non-Biblical words, the ALREADY and the NOT YET!
Jesus announced the coming Kingdom as having arrived with His own coming. The Spirit's coming in fullness and power were also signs that the Kingdom had arrived.Yet, the End of this age apparently had not taken place. Evil and its effects are still very much in evidence.
Believers in the NT came to realize that Jesus had not come to usher in the "final" End, but the beginning of the End. Thus they came to see that with Jesus' death and resurrection, and with the coming of th eSpirit, the blessings and the Future had already come. In a sense, therefore, the End had already come. But in another sense, it had not yet come. Thus they saw the Kingdom, and salvation as both already and not yet.
The early believers saw themselves as truly eschatological people, who lived "between the times" that is between time of the beginning of the end, and the consummation of the End. There is a tension, living between the times, in which some things have been fulfilled, but others are promises to do with the glorification of our bodies, when Christ returns.
At the Lord's Supper, they celebrated their eschatological existence by proclaiming "the Lord's death until he comes."1 Cor. 11:26. They ALREADY knew God's friend full forgiveness, but they had NOT YET been perfected. (Phil. 3:7-14). ALREADY death was theirs (1 Cor. 3:220 YET they would still die (Phil. 3:20-22). ALREADY they lived in the Spirit, YET they still lived in the world where Satan could attack. ALREADY they had been justified and faced no condemnation, YET there was still to be a future judgment. They had been conditioned by the future; they knew its benefits, lived in its values. But they still had to live out these benefits and values in the present world.
The Corinthian church, which the Word Faith movement is repeating, was to emphasize the ALREADY in such a way they almost denied the continuing presence of the world. They saw Christ only as exalted (see Heb 1:3 above), but not as crucified.They believed that the only thing that glorified God was signs and wonders and powers. Because God heals, he must heal everyone. There is no place for weakness or hunger or thirst or sickness in this kind of eschatological existence.
This false theology lay the the very heart of the Corinth rejection of Paul. His bodily weaknesses did not commend his apostleship. An apostle should be "spiritual, eloquent, living in glory, and perfect health. They rejected Paul and his theology of the cross, (with its ongoing suffering in the present age) because they saw themselves as more spiritual, redeemed from such weakness. In their view, Paul looked like anything but an apostle of their "glorious" Jesus.
Paul tries everything in his power to get them back to his gospel. In 1 Cor. 1:18-25, he reminds them that the gospel has as its very base a "crucified Messiah."
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8 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,[FONT="][FONT="]“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”[/FONT]
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[FONT="]20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[a] to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Cor. 1:18-25 ESV
For the Corinthians, that's like saying "fried ice." Messiah means "power, glory, miracles; crucifixion means weakness, shamed suffering. Thus, they gladly accepted false apostles who preached "a different gospel" with "another Jesus."
"For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." 2 Cor. 11:4 ESV
Paul explains to them the true nature of apostleship, which has a glorious message, but it is proclaimed by a less-than-gloriousmessengers.
"But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us." 2 Cor.4:7
In 2 Cor, chapters 10-13 Paul attacks their false teachers head on! I will only post a brief excerpt, but do read these chapters, realizing that Word Faith heresy was met straight on by the apostle Paul, who boasted in being foolish, and weak. Not strong, rich or healthy.
" I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not as the Lord would[a] but as a fool.18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21 To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that![/FONT]
[FONT="]But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that." 2 Cor. 11:16-21
"But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Cor. 12:9-10
" since you seek proof that Christ is speaking in me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. 4 For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! 6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. 7 But we pray to God that you may not do wrong—not that we may appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right, though we may seem to have failed. 8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 9 For we are glad when we are weak and you are strong. Your restoration is what we pray for. 10 For this reason I write these things while I am away from you, that when I come I may not have to be severe in my use of the authority that the Lord has given me for building up and not for tearing down." 2 Cor. 13:3-10
I wish I could just copy and paste all those chapters, they so powerfully rebuke the entire Word Faith heresy. We do not have perfect health or perfect wealth in this life time. But, are caught between the ALREADY and the NOT YET! The future is not this present age! Our bodies are not yet perfected. In this present age, even some of God's choicest servants continue to be perfected through suffering, as was the Son of God himself.
"Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. 9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him," Hebrews 5:8-9[/FONT]
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