If you do not know the difference between false doctrine (false teaching) and "believing differently" then of course you are another potential victim ripe for the plucking by false teachers. And please don't bring up the pablum about "love" when this is such a serious issue. Instead read the woes pronounced by Christ on scribes, lawyers, and Pharisees who were promoting false doctrine. As I said, would you feed poison to someone and call it love? Think about it before you answer.
Some common misconceptions about God;
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Welcome to CC!
While things can get heated here we are all one body in Christ and we should treat each other accordingly. Most here do try and remember that we are to be ambassadors for Christ (2 Cor 5:20). We are all on different steps in our walk with God so I try and remember that as my faith grows I need to be ever mindful to never put down others as they grow in faith. I am not always successful but I do try.
Anyway, I hope you grow to love this place and those here as much as I have.
This sounds like something I have written many times over my years in here. 
Nice to meet you, by the way.
Yes, there is something you're missing. Its subtle. Its mixed with enough truth to be alarmingly dangerous.
I know how you feel because I have been the one posting pleas just like yours. But you are missing something here and it is a very important thing that goes beyond just a different interpretation. It is more akin to: did God REALLY say...?
When it goes on for a very long time, and when you see it harm someone else, you will come to understand why the harshness. But that harshness is not without love. Its not without love for JM and its not without love for those who are taken in by what she often posts. She does it just as sweetly as someone with a shaved head at the airport who gives you a flower and a pamphlet. And if you could see how long its been going on, you might understand that it has gone past gentleness and to firmness for the sake of those newer to the faith who she could harm because it sounds so sweet and right and reasonable that the damaging lies just slip in there with it and are accepted with it.
I don't know if that will help you but I know that it might as you continue to read and get to know us all.
Nice to meet you, by the way.
Yes, there is something you're missing. Its subtle. Its mixed with enough truth to be alarmingly dangerous.
I know how you feel because I have been the one posting pleas just like yours. But you are missing something here and it is a very important thing that goes beyond just a different interpretation. It is more akin to: did God REALLY say...?
When it goes on for a very long time, and when you see it harm someone else, you will come to understand why the harshness. But that harshness is not without love. Its not without love for JM and its not without love for those who are taken in by what she often posts. She does it just as sweetly as someone with a shaved head at the airport who gives you a flower and a pamphlet. And if you could see how long its been going on, you might understand that it has gone past gentleness and to firmness for the sake of those newer to the faith who she could harm because it sounds so sweet and right and reasonable that the damaging lies just slip in there with it and are accepted with it.
I don't know if that will help you but I know that it might as you continue to read and get to know us all.
Nice to see so many posts on this thread and glad to at least get us all to reading the Bible. I've posted my own thoughts on the subject and I've posted verses along with it. I've also posted some from other Christian sites too. So I think I've presented a clear side to why I believe the way I do. Dispite my critics.
Here is another post from a brother on a thread from CC that I will also be sharing because this topic was discussed before in so many ways about the love of God in Christ. Many Christians want to share that Jesus is the one we look to when we want to see the true nature of God in action., word and deed. Be blessed.
Paul says - happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he believes. Let him have their own faith before God so people are allowed to have a different opinion on subjects such as healing.
Jesus is perfect theology:
Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father but the Son and He has come to reveal Him to men. Jesus came to do the will of the Father.
Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father as well as the will of the Father.
If we want to see what the Father's will is concerning a subject - see what Jesus did while He was on this earth.
If we want to see how the Father views sinners - look to see how Jesus interacted with them. ( both the prostitutes and the religious Pharisees )
If we want to see if it's God's will to heal people in their physical bodies - look to Jesus while He was here on this earth. He healed "all" that came to Him. He does not change.
If we want to see what the Father's discipline looks like - watch Jesus discipline the disciples - He did it with His words.
Jesus and the Father are One in their nature, purpose and love.
There is not one time - NOT one time where some one who came to Jesus for healing - that was not healed. He healed all that came to Him. There are many scriptures that attest to this fact.
No where do we find anywhere in Jesus' life where do we see any of these things being said by Jesus to anyone;
1) I can't heal you because God is trying to teach you something.
2) I can't heal you because you have sin in your life.
3) I can't heal you because you have not forgiven your mother-in-law. ( or anyone )
4) I can't heal you because you have not been eating and exercising properly. ( They were all on the Mediterranean Diet too... )
5) I can't heal you because God wants you to suffer with this sickness so that you will learn to trust in Him.
None of these things ever occurred although we have been taught by some of our church teachings that they are true. There is no evidence in the life of Jesus - in fact - the evidence is the complete opposite of what we have been taught in some circles.
Everyone is free to have the faith that they have before God. I won't insult or de-mean nor try to "lord it over their faith" if they choose to believe something else.
I will not call them a "cult" because of their unbelief in God's word on the subject that is different from others nor will I say that they are now "in heresy". I expect others to act with the same respect towards others as well.
God bless you.
We have a good, good Father and a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe we haven't even scratched the surface of understanding what Christ has done for us on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and are raised to newness of life. One day we will get incorruptible bodies where we will not be attacked. Thank you Jesus!
Here is another post from a brother on a thread from CC that I will also be sharing because this topic was discussed before in so many ways about the love of God in Christ. Many Christians want to share that Jesus is the one we look to when we want to see the true nature of God in action., word and deed. Be blessed.
Paul says - happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he believes. Let him have their own faith before God so people are allowed to have a different opinion on subjects such as healing.
Jesus is perfect theology:
Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father but the Son and He has come to reveal Him to men. Jesus came to do the will of the Father.
Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father as well as the will of the Father.
If we want to see what the Father's will is concerning a subject - see what Jesus did while He was on this earth.
If we want to see how the Father views sinners - look to see how Jesus interacted with them. ( both the prostitutes and the religious Pharisees )
If we want to see if it's God's will to heal people in their physical bodies - look to Jesus while He was here on this earth. He healed "all" that came to Him. He does not change.
If we want to see what the Father's discipline looks like - watch Jesus discipline the disciples - He did it with His words.
Jesus and the Father are One in their nature, purpose and love.
There is not one time - NOT one time where some one who came to Jesus for healing - that was not healed. He healed all that came to Him. There are many scriptures that attest to this fact.
No where do we find anywhere in Jesus' life where do we see any of these things being said by Jesus to anyone;
1) I can't heal you because God is trying to teach you something.
2) I can't heal you because you have sin in your life.
3) I can't heal you because you have not forgiven your mother-in-law. ( or anyone )
4) I can't heal you because you have not been eating and exercising properly. ( They were all on the Mediterranean Diet too...
)5) I can't heal you because God wants you to suffer with this sickness so that you will learn to trust in Him.
None of these things ever occurred although we have been taught by some of our church teachings that they are true. There is no evidence in the life of Jesus - in fact - the evidence is the complete opposite of what we have been taught in some circles.
Everyone is free to have the faith that they have before God. I won't insult or de-mean nor try to "lord it over their faith" if they choose to believe something else.
I will not call them a "cult" because of their unbelief in God's word on the subject that is different from others nor will I say that they are now "in heresy". I expect others to act with the same respect towards others as well.
God bless you.
We have a good, good Father and a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe we haven't even scratched the surface of understanding what Christ has done for us on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Him and are raised to newness of life. One day we will get incorruptible bodies where we will not be attacked. Thank you Jesus!
You seem to have omitted where you copy and pasted this. However, because you have figured out a good style, I know you posted the italics above. I think if it comes off CC, you need to post the actual link, which is done by clicking on the post number, and pressing "copy link." Well, on my computer.
Anyway, getting back to this and every think you post, that you post from someone else it is always the same.
Blah, blah, blah, my opinion, Heb 1:3, paraphrase PART of the verse, blah blah blah. That is simply meaningless. If there is any truth, you certainly have not shown it with the Bible, in all these pages. Nor anyone else in all these posts and threads that go back for years.
(I just want to actually post Heb. 1:3, which is a wonderful verse:
"The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high." Heb 3:1 NET)
Anyway, post which don't use the Bible, just blah, blah, blah, Bible address, my opinion, followed by devotion to a certain man, blah blah.
JM, what I and others want to see is the Bible!
I believe this.
Massive amounts of Scripture, showing context, touching on the words in Hebrew or Greek, and the context the book the large passages of Scripture came from.
We are far beyond these cutsey posts by various people that say nothing, but opinion, and wrong opinions at that.
Well, you probably have me on ignore, because you can't answer my biblical challenges. At all! Nor anyone else's. Instead, you cater to people's basest desires for a perfect life that was never promised in this life time.
I'll leave you with some non-Biblical words, the ALREADY and the NOT YET!
Jesus announced the coming Kingdom as having arrived with His own coming. The Spirit's coming in fullness and power were also signs that the Kingdom had arrived.Yet, the End of this age apparently had not taken place. Evil and its effects are still very much in evidence.
Believers in the NT came to realize that Jesus had not come to usher in the "final" End, but the beginning of the End. Thus they came to see that with Jesus' death and resurrection, and with the coming of th eSpirit, the blessings and the Future had already come. In a sense, therefore, the End had already come. But in another sense, it had not yet come. Thus they saw the Kingdom, and salvation as both already and not yet.
The early believers saw themselves as truly eschatological people, who lived "between the times" that is between time of the beginning of the end, and the consummation of the End. There is a tension, living between the times, in which some things have been fulfilled, but others are promises to do with the glorification of our bodies, when Christ returns.
At the Lord's Supper, they celebrated their eschatological existence by proclaiming "the Lord's death until he comes."1 Cor. 11:26. They ALREADY knew God's friend full forgiveness, but they had NOT YET been perfected. (Phil. 3:7-14). ALREADY death was theirs (1 Cor. 3:220 YET they would still die (Phil. 3:20-22). ALREADY they lived in the Spirit, YET they still lived in the world where Satan could attack. ALREADY they had been justified and faced no condemnation, YET there was still to be a future judgment. They had been conditioned by the future; they knew its benefits, lived in its values. But they still had to live out these benefits and values in the present world.
The Corinthian church, which the Word Faith movement is repeating, was to emphasize the ALREADY in such a way they almost denied the continuing presence of the world. They saw Christ only as exalted (see Heb 1:3 above), but not as crucified.They believed that the only thing that glorified God was signs and wonders and powers. Because God heals, he must heal everyone. There is no place for weakness or hunger or thirst or sickness in this kind of eschatological existence.
This false theology lay the the very heart of the Corinth rejection of Paul. His bodily weaknesses did not commend his apostleship. An apostle should be "spiritual, eloquent, living in glory, and perfect health. They rejected Paul and his theology of the cross, (with its ongoing suffering in the present age) because they saw themselves as more spiritual, redeemed from such weakness. In their view, Paul looked like anything but an apostle of their "glorious" Jesus.
Paul tries everything in his power to get them back to his gospel. In 1 Cor. 1:18-25, he reminds them that the gospel has as its very base a "crucified Messiah."
"8 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,[FONT="][FONT="]“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[a] to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Cor. 1:18-25 ESV
For the Corinthians, that's like saying "fried ice." Messiah means "power, glory, miracles; crucifixion means weakness, shamed suffering. Thus, they gladly accepted false apostles who preached "a different gospel" with "another Jesus."
"For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." 2 Cor. 11:4 ESV
Paul explains to them the true nature of apostleship, which has a glorious message, but it is proclaimed by a less-than-gloriousmessengers.
"But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us." 2 Cor.4:7
In 2 Cor, chapters 10-13 Paul attacks their false teachers head on! I will only post a brief excerpt, but do read these chapters, realizing that Word Faith heresy was met straight on by the apostle Paul, who boasted in being foolish, and weak. Not strong, rich or healthy.
" I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not as the Lord would[a] but as a fool.18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21 To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that![/FONT]
[FONT="]But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that." 2 Cor. 11:16-21
"But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Cor. 12:9-10
" since you seek proof that Christ is speaking in me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. 4 For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! 6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. 7 But we pray to God that you may not do wrong—not that we may appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right, though we may seem to have failed. 8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 9 For we are glad when we are weak and you are strong. Your restoration is what we pray for. 10 For this reason I write these things while I am away from you, that when I come I may not have to be severe in my use of the authority that the Lord has given me for building up and not for tearing down." 2 Cor. 13:3-10
I wish I could just copy and paste all those chapters, they so powerfully rebuke the entire Word Faith heresy. We do not have perfect health or perfect wealth in this life time. But, are caught between the ALREADY and the NOT YET! The future is not this present age! Our bodies are not yet perfected. In this present age, even some of God's choicest servants continue to be perfected through suffering, as was the Son of God himself.
"Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. 9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him," Hebrews 5:8-9[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
This is a really old song, that came out when I was a young Christian. I didn't understand it in those days, but when the idea of the Already (Now) and the Not Yet, suddenly made sense, as a Biblical principle. We live in the light of Jesus, waiting for the day when he returns, and we become everything he created us to be!
[video=youtube;_DQobykZHMQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DQobykZHMQ[/video]
[video=youtube;_DQobykZHMQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DQobykZHMQ[/video]
C
This sounds like something I have written many times over my years in here.
Nice to meet you, by the way.
Yes, there is something you're missing. Its subtle. Its mixed with enough truth to be alarmingly dangerous.
I know how you feel because I have been the one posting pleas just like yours. But you are missing something here and it is a very important thing that goes beyond just a different interpretation. It is more akin to: did God REALLY say...?
When it goes on for a very long time, and when you see it harm someone else, you will come to understand why the harshness. But that harshness is not without love. Its not without love for JM and its not without love for those who are taken in by what she often posts. She does it just as sweetly as someone with a shaved head at the airport who gives you a flower and a pamphlet. And if you could see how long its been going on, you might understand that it has gone past gentleness and to firmness for the sake of those newer to the faith who she could harm because it sounds so sweet and right and reasonable that the damaging lies just slip in there with it and are accepted with it.
I don't know if that will help you but I know that it might as you continue to read and get to know us all.
Nice to meet you, by the way.
Yes, there is something you're missing. Its subtle. Its mixed with enough truth to be alarmingly dangerous.
I know how you feel because I have been the one posting pleas just like yours. But you are missing something here and it is a very important thing that goes beyond just a different interpretation. It is more akin to: did God REALLY say...?
When it goes on for a very long time, and when you see it harm someone else, you will come to understand why the harshness. But that harshness is not without love. Its not without love for JM and its not without love for those who are taken in by what she often posts. She does it just as sweetly as someone with a shaved head at the airport who gives you a flower and a pamphlet. And if you could see how long its been going on, you might understand that it has gone past gentleness and to firmness for the sake of those newer to the faith who she could harm because it sounds so sweet and right and reasonable that the damaging lies just slip in there with it and are accepted with it.
I don't know if that will help you but I know that it might as you continue to read and get to know us all.
[h=1]In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Love[/h]
Hi Joaniemarie. I really like some things you've had to say here. I'm new on this site. I used to sound like many of the people who have responded to your post - defending and arguing doctrine with no real sign of love. When doctrine and the need to be right is greater than my love for others - then I am wrong no matter what. I wonder if you could use a pen pal? I would really like to have someone to write to.
I really like some things you've had to say here. I'm new on this site. I used to sound like many of the people who have responded to your post - defending and arguing doctrine with no real sign of love. When doctrine and the need to be right is greater than my love for others - then I am wrong no matter what. I wonder if you could use a pen pal? I would really like to have someone to write to.
I'm not sure I would strictly label them as core issues. I would say its more...a little crooked side road that I don't want to see anyone go down because it leads to a dead end and to grief and heartache when you appear to be just one of those people that God won't heal, that God doesn't make monetarily self-sufficient, that He doesn't give great ease in life to.
If I can help anyone to not go down that crooked side road and to instead struggle through the difficult things we are meant to struggle through with Him, in mind but also in body sometimes, to GET that true trust, I'll keep trying.
If I can help anyone to not go down that crooked side road and to instead struggle through the difficult things we are meant to struggle through with Him, in mind but also in body sometimes, to GET that true trust, I'll keep trying.
I can imagine how this thread looks to a new comer, not knowing the history here. There are some really good people here. As for the OP, I don’t really know her either or exactly what she believes because I normally just avoid her threads. I’ve read some and I think maybe she just doesn’t understand some things. However, from what I have read many here have tried to talk to her with much love and patience, but to no avail. She continues with replies of, if they will just let the Holy Spirit lead them then they will come to this new revelation…which in my opinion is dangerous for new or weaker Christians to even read. It does need refuted by the word of God.
So yes, I agree, we all should love one another and walk in unity as much as we can, but there does come a time when we need to take a stand for the word of God and speak the Truth in Love.
Anyhow, I think you picked a wrong thread to get started on here at CC. I hope you will take the time to look at other threads and get to know some of the folks here because like I said before there are many good caring Christians here. God bless you.
So yes, I agree, we all should love one another and walk in unity as much as we can, but there does come a time when we need to take a stand for the word of God and speak the Truth in Love.
Anyhow, I think you picked a wrong thread to get started on here at CC. I hope you will take the time to look at other threads and get to know some of the folks here because like I said before there are many good caring Christians here. God bless you.
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