GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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No one will be saved thru Sabbath observance, law keeping, repentance, baptism, tithing, Church attendance etc

Scripture, Words breathed by God (2 Tim 3:16)

Proclaim, Jesus Christ was sinless: 2 Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1 Jn 3:5 1 Pet 1:19, 1 Pet 2:22.

John 15:4 Jesus said, Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
(NOTE: Christ is the ROOT & believers are branches that have ZERO life without him)

John 15:5 Jesus said, I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
(NOTE: Christ is the ROOT & believers are branches that have ZERO life without him)

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(NOTE: Christ is the firstfruit to resurrect from death)

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
(NOTE: Christ the firstfruit/RESURRECTION & the ROOT is HOLY. Our FAITH placed in HIS SINLESS RIGHTEOSNESS, we the branches are made/become holy)

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The ""Faith OF Christ"")

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the ""Faith OF Christ"" & thru the righteousness of Christ's faithfulness. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness. And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live ""by the faith of the Son of God"" who loved me, and gave himself for me.
(NOTE: Believers live by the ""Faith of Christ"")

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(NOTE: It's our Faith placed in Christ's work)
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
(NOTE: The sinless, faithfully righteous Christ died for the ungodly)

Eph 2:8 by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: The grace of God is: Jn 3:16 He gave/sent Christ to save all that will trust him)

We access Gods Grace thru Faith (Rom 5:2) placed in Christ's finished redemptive sin atoning sacrificial work. Found in Christ's death, burial & resurrection. Then God imputes/transfers Christ's righteousness onto us & transfers/imputes our sins onto Christ. See this process in Lev 4 & Rom 4:3-8) Also see Rom 10:9-10 & 1 Cor 15:1-4)

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
(NOTE: One day, Jesus will judge the world. Via the Gospel of grace (Acts 20:24) Given to Paul thru direct revelation from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12)

Reread Rom 2:16 No believer one will be judged for Sabbath observance, law keeping, repentance, baptism, tithing, Church attendance etc. The faith & righteousness OF Jesus Christ & our faith placed in him is the judgment standard.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yes indeed of course Mary is being referred to as born under the law (a sinner) that is my point. I am not disagreeing that Jesus is being born he is a man and of course its reference is masculine in meaning that Jesus was born of sinners but was not one.

Gal 4:4 is talking about Jesus being born of sinners (mankind) not that he is a sinner. That is why Gal 4:4 connects very nicely with Romans 3:19-23 and 2:12 as shown in the forst post above.

Getting back to what we were originally talking about earlier and that is to be under the law means to be guilty of SIN (breaking it) in the context already shown in Romans.
yes, Jesus wasn't born guilty of sin

he was born under the law, that is under the authority of the law

this fits very well with Romans


***********

posted from my phone, blessings!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
But without the instructions of how to follow these two Commandments you have what we have now. Hundreds of different religious franchises all teaching different ways to "Love the Lord thy God" and "Love thy neighbor as thyself". Confusion, Babylon.

Yes, you and the Pope believes He can create Law and Holy and Clean, and you might believe this. But the Pope didn't die for me, Jesus did. So I'm going to follow the instructions of Jesus on how to Love Him, myself, and my neighbor. And this instruction is given in the Law and Prophets that you and the Pope preach against.

The instructions you preach have ended are the very instructions that show us how to Love God. Why would you preach against them?
The way Jews spin scripture I'm not surprised they need lessons on how to practise love, they show little enough of it towards others. As Catholicism came out of Judaism through the Apostle Peter who set up the first church. Criticising Catholicism is to criticise Judaism.

Basically I don't want you preaching Judaism at me. I have had enough. O.K.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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so, we agree that Moses said
*'You shall not murder;'?
The problem with the KJV is it is English of 1611. Languages change over time. In 1611 telling someone they had an oder was a complement that changed to an insult and smell replaced it. Today you must add an adjetive to smell or it is an insult. In 1611 kill meant murder. Modern translations have the commandment be "You shall not murder."

The NIV or other modern translations should be used. There is a New King James Version that tries to fix this problem.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
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The way Jews spin scripture I'm not surprised they need lessons on how to practise love, they show little enough of it towards others. As Catholicism came out of Judaism through the Apostle Peter who set up the first church. Criticising Catholicism is to criticise Judaism.

Basically I don't want you preaching Judaism at me. I have had enough. O.K.
I agree there is no difference between the Catholic teaching, yours, and the Pharisees. You all ignore and erase any scripture that can't be twisted to further your man made religious traditions.

But Judaism itself. It's hard to keep up with you on the definition. If it means honoring the God of the Bible with respect and obedience, then that means Jesus was a Judaizer and you are not.

If it means creating our own laws and religious doctrines despite what the Word of God says, then that would make you a Judaizer, and not Jesus.

Since this word doesn't exist in the Bible, it's hard to know what you mean by it.

I think it means the Jews religion which Jesus defined as "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men". And we know this religion "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own man made traditions".

So I'm not sure what the honest difference is between a Jew who pushes their man made religion or someone who isn't a Jew doing the same thing.

Personally I see no significant difference. Since I am not preaching man made religious doctrines, and you are, it seems you may be the one that needs to stop pushes your religious traditions on others.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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I agree there is no difference between the Catholic teaching, yours, and the Pharisees. You all ignore and erase any scripture that can't be twisted to further your man made religious traditions.

But Judaism itself. It's hard to keep up with you on the definition. If it means honoring the God of the Bible with respect and obedience, then that means Jesus was a Judaizer and you are not.

If it means creating our own laws and religious doctrines despite what the Word of God says, then that would make you a Judaizer, and not Jesus.

Since this word doesn't exist in the Bible, it's hard to know what you mean by it.

I think it means the Jews religion which Jesus defined as "Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men". And we know this religion "Transgressed the Commandments of God by their own man made traditions".

So I'm not sure what the honest difference is between a Jew who pushes their man made religion or someone who isn't a Jew doing the same thing.

Personally I see no significant difference. Since I am not preaching man made religious doctrines, and you are, it seems you may be the one that needs to stop pushes your religious traditions on others.
There is no talking to you.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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The way Jews spin scripture I'm not surprised they need lessons on how to practise love, they show little enough of it towards others. As Catholicism came out of Judaism through the Apostle Peter who set up the first church. Criticising Catholicism is to criticise Judaism.

Basically I don't want you preaching Judaism at me. I have had enough. O.K.
Your concept of Christian history is flawed. Just because the Catholic Church claims Peter is the first pope doesn't make it so. The history of the early church was filled with disagreements about peripheral issues. That caused the early elders to create the Apostles Creed. That defines who is and isn't a Christian!! Everything else is to agree to disagree on. Want to get an argument going pick one of the peripheral concepts like Calvinism vs Armenianism.

Reformed/Calvinist
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

Who is correct or are both wrong? The argument will never cease.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Your concept of Christian history is flawed. Just because the Catholic Church claims Peter is the first pope doesn't make it so. The history of the early church was filled with disagreements about peripheral issues. That caused the early elders to create the Apostles Creed. That defines who is and isn't a Christian!! Everything else is to agree to disagree on. Want to get an argument going pick one of the peripheral concepts like Calvinism vs Armenianism.

Reformed/Calvinist
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

Who is correct or are both wrong? The argument will never cease.
I do not want an argument and Christianity is the teaching of Christ.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I do not want an argument and Christianity is the teaching of Christ.
But what version of teaching Christ? That is where the peripheral issues come in. Since the great commission teaches baptizing all Christians is it required for salvation? If so what happens to a person who dies before being baptized? What mode of baptism is required for the saving of the person?

As you were saying!!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Also Jesus said the law is eternal. Therefore we are all under the law. Transgression of the law is sin. Sin condemns us to death. Our only hope is accepting the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins.

That is the gospel in a nutshell.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Also Jesus said the law is eternal. Therefore we are all under the law. Transgression of the law is sin. Sin condemns us to death. Our only hope is accepting the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins.

That is the gospel in a nutshell.
Something I did a few years ago in the manner of Thomas Jefferson. Any faults or apparent contradictions are down to the readers ignorance.

LINK
 
Jun 5, 2017
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My dear, it it is simple what kindle mean.

kin·dle[SUP]1[/SUP]
ˈkindl/
verb

  • light or set on fire.
    [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
    [TR]
    [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:
    [/TD]
    [TD]light, ignite, set alight, set light to, set fire to, put a match to"he kindled a fire"
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    • arouse or inspire (an emotion or feeling).
      [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
      [TR]
      [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
      [TD]rouse, arouse, wake, awake, awaken; More[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [/TABLE]
    • (of an emotion) be aroused.
      [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
      [TR]
      [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
      [TD]rouse, arouse, wake, awake, awaken; More[/TD]
      [/TR]
      [/TABLE]

    Old and New Testament use a written word, so you have to know what the word mean dear.
Kindle is simple word dear
Why would you think I do not know what kindle means? You should try and live in the NEW Covenant my friend your living in the OLD. Jesus is the NEW and better way. However if you rejects Gods Word in order to live a life of SIN. Your SINS will keep you out of GOd's KINGDOM

...............

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Feb 28, 2016
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No matter HOW many times SCRIPTURE is repeated

the DISobedient will NOT understand !!!
===================================================

it's not always just the 'dis-obedient, it's simply those who haven't been called or enlightened
'as of yet'...
 
Jun 5, 2017
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No one will be saved thru Sabbath observance, law keeping, repentance, baptism, tithing, Church attendance etc
No one here says you are saved by keeping the Sabbath or any other commandment of God. We are all sinners in need of Salvation from SIN. WE are saved by GRAC E through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of God and not of WORKS lest any man should boast.

However, if your FAITH does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE then you are still in your SINS and the wages of SIN is death because you have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; James 2:18-20; 26). If your faith has no fruit then it will be cast down and thrown into the fire (Matt 7:12-23)

Scripture, Words breathed by God (2 Tim 3:16) Proclaim, Jesus Christ was sinless: 2 Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1 Jn 3:5 1 Pet 1:19, 1 Pet 2:22. John 15:4 Jesus said, Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. (NOTE: Christ is the ROOT & believers are branches that have ZERO life without him)
AMEN. Glad we are in agreement.

John 15:5 Jesus said, I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
(NOTE: Christ is the ROOT & believers are branches that have ZERO life without him)
AMEN. Glad we are in agreement.

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
(NOTE: Christ is the firstfruit to resurrect from death)
AMEN. Glad we are in agreement.

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
(NOTE: Christ the firstfruit/RESURRECTION & the ROOT is HOLY. Our FAITH placed in HIS SINLESS RIGHTEOSNESS, we the branches are made/become holy)
AMEN. Glad we are in agreement.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The ""Faith OF Christ"")
Indeed, but some use faith as an excuse for SIN and disobedience because they do not KNOW what faith is for.
Romans 3:31 31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

(NOTE: God's LAW is establsihed thourgh FAITH)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the ""Faith OF Christ"" & thru the righteousness of Christ's faithfulness. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness. And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)
AMEN. Although if you are still sinning agaisnt GOD you are still in your sins and you have counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do not KNOW God.

Heb 10,
26,
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, Of how much worse punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done insult unto the Spirit of grace?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs unto me, I will recompense, says the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

(Note: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God if you choose a life of SIN when you have been given a knowledge of the truth.)

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live ""by the faith of the Son of God"" who loved me, and gave himself for me.
(NOTE: Believers live by the ""Faith of Christ"")
AMEN. FAITH establsihes the LAW in the life of the BELIEVER so they become OBEDIENT to God's WORD.
Romans 3:31 31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

(NOTE: God's LAW is establsihed thourgh FAITH)

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(NOTE: It's our Faith placed in Christ's work)
AMEN. Glad we are in agreement.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
(NOTE: The sinless, faithfully righteous Christ died for the ungodly)
AMEN. Glad we are in agreement. He died for the ungodly (*those who SIN) so they no longer need to be ungodly. Those who reject God's GRACE and continue to be ungodly *SIN. will not be saved come judgement day.

Jude 1
4,
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into licentiousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5, I will therefore put you in remembrance, though you once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6, And the angels who kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7, Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after unnatural lust, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8, Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise authority, and speak evil of the glorious ones.
9, Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil as he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you.
10, But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11, Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12, These are spots in your love feasts, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about by winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13, Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14, And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints,
15, To execute judgment upon all, and to convict all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

(NOTE: Ungodly men have some in turning the GRACE of GOD into a liscense to SIN. Sodom and Gomorah are an example to those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN; God is coming to execute JUDGEMENT on those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN.)

Eph 2:8 by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: The grace of God is: Jn 3:16 He gave/sent Christ to save all that will trust him)
AMEN.

We access Gods Grace thru Faith (Rom 5:2) placed in Christ's finished redemptive sin atoning sacrificial work. Found in Christ's death, burial & resurrection. Then God imputes/transfers Christ's righteousness onto us & transfers/imputes our sins onto Christ. See this process in Lev 4 & Rom 4:3-8) Also see Rom 10:9-10 & 1 Cor 15:1-4
AMEN. Indeed this is called FORGIVENESS. This does not mean we are free to CONTINUE in SIN.

Hebrews 6
4,
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes often upon it, and brings forth plants fit for them by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God:
8, But that which bears thorns and briars is worthless, and is near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

(NOTE: that if we CONTINUE IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN after FORGIVENESS we are still IN our SINS because we have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son and do not KNOW GOD and are considered to have the same punishment as the UNGODLY. see Hebrews 10:26-31 matches well)

Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
(NOTE: One day, Jesus will judge the world. Via the Gospel of grace (Acts 20:24) Given to Paul thru direct revelation from Jesus Christ (Gal 1:12)
Indeed. MAN does not LIVE by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of GOD. The Gospel is JESUS <Jesus means Savior; John 1:29> and JESUS is THE WORD OF GOD (John 1:1-14; 17:17; 14:6). THE WORD OF GOD is the GOSPEL BECAUSE BY FAITH IT IS OUR SAVIOR and this the IS GOOD NEWS to those who BELIEVE. (John 1:1-14; John 1:29; John 17:17; 14:6; Matthew 4:4)

Reread Rom 2:16 No believer one will be judged for Sabbath observance, law keeping, repentance, baptism, tithing, Church attendance etc. The faith & righteousness OF Jesus Christ & our faith placed in him is the judgment standard.
Well this is section is definately not true. These are your words and NOT God's because it is written....

Psa 1:5
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

Psa 9:8
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness."

Ecc 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

Mat 12:36,
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."

Act 17:31,
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Rom 2:5-6,
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

2Co 5:10,
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. "

2Co 5:11,
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences."

Heb 9:27,
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, "
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Jam 2:12-13,
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

2Pe 2:9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

2Pe 3:7,
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Jud 1:14-15,
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him"

Rev 14:7
Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

(NOTE: How many scriptures disagree with you interpretation of God's WORD. It is time to leave Sunday school and whorship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth.)

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Last edited:

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
The problem with the KJV is it is English of 1611. Languages change over time. In 1611 telling someone they had an oder was a complement that changed to an insult and smell replaced it. Today you must add an adjetive to smell or it is an insult. In 1611 kill meant murder. Modern translations have the commandment be "You shall not murder."

The NIV or other modern translations should be used. There is a New King James Version that tries to fix this problem.
I'm not a big fan of the kjv

it does a great job with some of the ot poetry, though


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posted from my phone, blessings!
 
Jun 5, 2017
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yes, Jesus wasn't born guilty of sin

he was born under the law, that is under the authority of the law

this fits very well with Romans


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posted from my phone, blessings!
You seem a bit mixed up in your understanding of God's WORD. Jesus was not born under the law; Under the law means to be guilty of breaking it. The scripture says Jesus was born of a woman who was under the law (a sinner). If you are under the LAW you are guilty before God of breaking it. Jesus was born of sinners but never sinned. That is why he is our perfect sacrifice. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

When you combine Gal 4:4 with Romans 3:19-23 it is very clear what the meaning is....

Romans 3
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The scripture says the woman was under the law (sinner) not Jesus. So Jesus was born of sinners but did not sin. This is why he is our perfect sacrifice to those who believe.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
You seem a bit mixed up in your understanding of God's WORD. Jesus was not born under the law; Under the law means to be guilty of breaking it. The scripture says Jesus was born of a woman who was under the law (a sinner). If you are under the LAW you are guilty before God of breaking it. Jesus was born of sinners but never sinned. That is why he is our perfect sacrifice. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

When you combine Gal 4:4 with Romans 3:19-23 it is very clear what the meaning is....

Romans 3
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The scripture says the woman was under the law (sinner) not Jesus. So Jesus was born of sinners but did not sin. This is why he is our perfect sacrifice to those who believe.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
to me it's clear that Jesus was Born under the law

so under the law can't mean guilty of breaking it

if under the law means obligated to keep it, then it works for all the passages in the nt

4 Here is what I have been saying. As long as your own children are young, they are no different from slaves in your house. They are no different, even though they will own all the property. 2 People are in charge of the property. And other people are in charge of the children. The children remain under their care until they become adults. At that time their fathers give them the property. 3 It is the same with us. When we were children, we were slaves to the basic spiritual powers of the world.
4 But then the chosen time came. God sent his Son. A woman gave birth to him. He was born under the authority of the law.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gal4&version=NIRV
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Originally Posted by LoveGodForever
You seem a bit mixed up in your understanding of God's WORD. Jesus was not born under the law; Under the law means to be guilty of breaking it. The scripture says Jesus was born of a woman who was under the law (a sinner). If you are under the LAW you are guilty before God of breaking it. Jesus was born of sinners but never sinned. That is why he is our perfect sacrifice. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

When you combine Gal 4:4 with Romans 3:19-23 it is very clear what the meaning is....

Romans 3
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The scripture says the woman was under the law (sinner) not Jesus. So Jesus was born of sinners but did not sin. This is why he is our perfect sacrifice to those who believe.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

to me it's clear that Jesus was Born under the law
So you believe Jesus was a sinner?

so under the law can't mean guilty of breaking it
And yet God says if you are "UNDER THE LAW" you stand guilty before GOD of SIN of breaking it ...

Romans 3
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Seems God's WORD disagrees with you.

if under the law means obligated to keep it, then it works for all the passages in the nt
Yet the scriptures above say that to be "Under the LAW" means to be guilty before GOD of SIN and breaking God's LAW. This is consistant with ALL the scriptures in both the OLD and NEW Testament.

4 Here is what I have been saying. As long as your own children are young, they are no different from slaves in your house. They are no different, even though they will own all the property. 2 People are in charge of the property. And other people are in charge of the children. The children remain under their care until they become adults. At that time their fathers give them the property. 3 It is the same with us. When we were children, we were slaves to the basic spiritual powers of the world.
4 But then the chosen time came. God sent his Son. A woman gave birth to him. He was born under the authority of the law.
Indeed as the scritpures say...

Romans 2
12,
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13, For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 3
31
, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Thankyou but I have a bible and I read it for my self and practice the NEW COVENANT promise of Heb 8:11.

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Why would you think I do not know what kindle means? You should try and live in the NEW Covenant my friend your living in the OLD. Jesus is the NEW and better way. However if you rejects Gods Word in order to live a life of SIN. Your SINS will keep you out of GOd's KINGDOM

...............

ALL who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL be LOST and NOT Enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
that is why I am not observe sabbath, because I live in NT