How To Be Un-Saved

[Katy-follower]

Romans 8:1-2: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Great. Then you agree that OSAS in unbiblical, seeing that you say it’s “so true” a person can indeed lose their salvation.



JPT

No, What I see is you are deceptive, the post i said amen to did not say anythign about losing salvation. So I was nto saying so true to the ability to lose salvation.

I would ask you to apologize for tryign to be deceptive, but woudl it do any good?

 

[justpassinthrough]

No, What I see is you are deceptive, the post i said amen to did not say anythign about losing salvation. So I was nto saying so true to the ability to lose salvation.

I would ask you to apologize for tryign to be deceptive, but woudl it do any good?

You plainly stated “very true” to the statement that if a person believes they can lose their salvation, then they can.


That would mean you believe that a person can lose their salvation.


Now if you don’t believe that, then why would you claim it’s “true” that if a person believes they can lose their salvation then they can.


or maybe your the kind of person who attacks others with nasty ungodly names, when they are shown to be double-minded.


If now you don’t believe a person who believes they can lose their, but can’t then post a retraction to your former statement.



JPT

 

[Chester]

No, What I see is you are deceptive, the post i said amen to did not say anythign about losing salvation. So I was nto saying so true to the ability to lose salvation.

I would ask you to apologize for tryign to be deceptive, but woudl it do any good?

What the world? You are being accused of believing salvation can be lost? Maybe my posts are finally having results!!!!!! LOL!

 

[Magenta]

You plainly stated “very true” to the statement that if a person believes they can lose their salvation, then they can.

That would mean you believe that a person can lose their salvation.

Now if you don’t believe that, then why would you claim it’s “true” that if a person believes they can lose their salvation then they can.

or maybe your the kind of person who attacks others with nasty ungodly names, when they are shown to be double-minded.

If now you don’t believe a person who believes they can lose their, but can’t then post a retraction to your former statement.

JPT

Anyone can easily follow the trail of posts to see where this started, you know. It was fairly plainly stated that those who believe they can lose their salvation can lose their assumed salvation because they are not really saved, since they have placed their faith in themselves and not in the One Who saves. So, yeah. Your deception is pretty obvious.

Yes. Someone who believes they can lose salvation probably can lose it.

Salvation, to them, is something they achieved through their own wisdom and their own understanding. That will always fail.

Sorry for the weird edit

​

 

[Ralph-]

Romans 8:1-2: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death"

Yes, stay in Christ and walk according to the Spirit where there is no condemnation. Let the word of God continue in you and you will continue in the Son and the Father.


"let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
28Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming."

1 John 2:24,28

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You plainly stated “very true” to the statement that if a person believes they can lose their salvation, then they can.

Yes. Someone who believes they can lose salvation probably can lose it.

Salvation, to them, is something they achieved through their own wisdom and their own understanding. That will always fail.


But someone who believes in OSAS can't lose their salvation. They are always believing in the Power of the One who has saved them. They have to in order to believe OSAS.


Someone who tells you that you cannot lose your salvation is in the MIDST of belief. They believe in the Power of the Lord.

Someone who tells you that you can lose your salvation is in the MIDST of unbelief. They don't believe in the Power of the Lord.


Sometimes you have to be careful what you listen to and especially what you hear. Is it of faith?

Hebrews 4:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

He said someone who BELIEVES one can lose salvationb probably can lose it, he never said they were saved,

if you read the rest of what he said, you would have realised what he meant..

You failed to listen to what the poster was saying, as usual. You took one sentence completely out of conbtext. And failed to read the whole thing.

Sad thing is I understand what granpa was saying, You evidenly still fail to comprehend what he wrote.

That would mean you believe that a person can lose their salvation.

Grandpa does not believe it, and neither do I. If you read all of what grandpa said you would see that also

Now if you don’t believe that, then why would you claim it’s “true” that if a person believes they can lose their salvation then they can.


or maybe your the kind of person who attacks others with nasty ungodly names, when they are shown to be double-minded.


If now you don’t believe a person who believes they can lose their, but can’t then post a retraction to your former statement.



JPT

What I am is a person who reads what a person says, and gets to know them (I have been reading grandpa for years now. I think I know prety much that he does not believe that a person can lose salvation) and if I do make a mistake. I appologise that I misread what the person say.

can you do that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Anyone can easily follow the trail of posts to see where this started, you know. It was fairly plainly stated that those who believe they can lose their salvation can lose their assumed salvation because they are not really saved, since they have placed their faith in themselves and not in the One Who saves. So, yeah. Your deception is pretty obvious.

Sorry for the weird edit

​

see what happens when you read the whole thing. Amen sis, seems eeryonen saw it but him.

 

[joefizz]

Your words reek of arrogance. Better to take a humble approach and a lower seat (Luke 14:8-11) then to speak in such a presumptuous matter. Even Jesus said "Why do you call Me good?"

Your OSAS has made you prideful and blind.

Proverbs 16:18 New English Translation (NET Bible)

18 Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall

How is "wishing you well" and "appreciating one's blessings",arrogance and pride?

 

[joefizz]

Those who reject Christs words are anti-Christ.

To accept Jesus as Lord and Savior is to accept all His words, no matter how difficult.
The question is how to interpret them, and let them dwell in our hearts as a source of
life and love, Amen.

Not just "accept his words" but accept "Jesus" is to not be an anti -Christ.

 

[joefizz]

Oh, I know, I know!

Simply withdraw the Holy Spirit out of a person.
That will cause them to not be a new creation anymore.

Doesn't seem so tough to me.

So fascinating where is this marvelous invention then since you trust it can do this?

 

[joefizz]

So fascinating where is this marvelous invention then since you trust it can do this?

I've heard of the "Forgive O Matic" but the "Holy spirit taker" this I have to see!

 

[DJ2]

What I see is you could not refute ANY ot the things I said I had, which was given to me, paid for by the blood of Christ.
As for presumptuous. Your are the one who is presumptious to think you have to run the race to earn salvation. We run to earn a reward. Salvation is a gift. Your first order of business should be to understand the difference between a gift, which is paid for by the giver, and given out of love, But not forced on people. People have the right to reject it and so no thank you, and a reward or wage, which is somethign you EARN by working hard (think of an olympic athlete or a worker who is working to earn a wage from his employer)

once you figure the difference out, You MAY be able to find out the diggerence between salvation by GRACE (as taught in the word) and salvation by WORKS (which you are proposing)



Whatever dude, Not of works Lest any man should boast (be puffed up in pride) you yelling at me and sayin I reject works, then say I have pride. Pride comes from WORKS MY FRIEND. Not from recieving Gifts (again, something you can not understand untikl you learn the digffernece between a work and a gift. )



you need to look in the mirror my friend.

I just stated a biblical fact.

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If claiming the promise of God through FAITH based on his work, and his will.. not mine, is being haughty, then what do you call those who claim they EARN the right by all their hard work?

What I see is you could not refute ANY ot the things I said I had, which was given to me, paid for by the blood of Christ.

You are the one making the presumptuous claim of personal and individual salvation, the burden is on he who claims. That means you. Unless you can prove your claim, your words are quite meaningless. Pointing to scriptures about Christians in general being saved does not prove you are saved. OSAS has blinded you to this fact.

As for presumptuous. Your are the one who is presumptious to think you have to run the race to earn salvation. We run to earn a reward. Salvation is a gift. Your first order of business should be to understand the difference between a gift, which is paid for by the giver, and given out of love, But not forced on people.

The only people who claim such nonsense as "work salvation" or "earning salvation" are OSAS followers, they use the words in a childish attempt to deflect the message of others who resist the OSAS message. You cannot "earn" your salvation but you are expected to properly claim your salvation. OSAS followers shamelessly claim both personal and individual pardon before our names are even called.

Revelation 3:12Verse Concepts

'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name

You have no basis to claim to have overcome, to have finished the race, tasted of the hidden manna or received a white stone.

You have no way of knowing for sure if you are part of the to them that John 1:12-13 is speaking of. Claiming any promise is meaningless if you are not willing to submit to its qualifications.

World English Bible

Test your own selves, whether you are in the faith. Test your own selves. Or don't you know as to your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you? -- unless indeed you are disqualified

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are the one making the presumptuous claim of personal and individual salvation, the burden is on he who claims. That means you. Unless you can prove your claim, your words are quite meaningless. Pointing to scriptures about Christians in general being saved does not prove you are saved. OSAS has blinded you to this fact.

The only people who claim such nonsense as "work salvation" or "earning salvation" are OSAS followers, they use the words in a childish attempt to deflect the message of others who resist the OSAS message. You cannot "earn" your salvation but you are expected to properly claim your salvation. OSAS followers shamelessly claim both personal and individual pardon before our names are even called.

You have no basis to claim to have overcome, to have finished the race, tasted of the hidden manna or received a white stone.

You have no way of knowing for sure if you are part of the to them that John 1:12-13 is speaking of. Claiming any promise is meaningless if you are not willing to submit to its qualifications.

World English Bible

Test your own selves, whether you are in the faith. Test your own selves. Or don't you know as to your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you? -- unless indeed you are disqualified

1 John 5: [FONT=&quot]These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have [/FONT]eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God

John said I can know. Not only Can I know. But the knowledge I HAVE eternal life is what keeps me believing I am sick of trying to discuss things with you, and I am done, Good riddens, I will pray you find truth. Until then, You can join your buddies.

 

[DJ2]

How is "wishing you well" and "appreciating one's blessings",arrogance and pride?

Could you point out where you believe I said such a thing?

 

[joefizz]

Could you point out where you believe I said such a thing?

Gladly...

Your words reek of arrogance. Better to take a humble approach and a lower seat (Luke 14:8-11) then to speak in such a presumptuous matter. Even Jesus said "Why do you call Me good?"

Your OSAS has made you prideful and blind.

Proverbs 16:18 New English Translation (NET Bible)

18 Pride goes before destruction,
and a haughty spirit before a fall

on page 39 in response to eternally grateful,do call again if you need a memory guide.

 

[joefizz]

Gladly...

on page 39 in response to eternally grateful,do call again if you need a memory guide.

And if you need a more "perfect" location it is post#762,no need to thank me.

 

[joefizz]

Also to everyone in general in this thread and others Eternally grateful has informed in the thread "Speak your mind" that he is having eye surgery tomorrow and later will be offline for a few days so until he returns I hope noone will try to "take advantage" by trying to pridefully say that by his no response during this time that he is ignoring posts or otherwise,I have a knack for "watching for trouble makers",just saying.

 

[mailmandan]

Notice Peter says we are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH. So don't stop believing. The power of God in the keeping of our salvation comes to us through faith.

Peter did not mention "don't stop believing" here. We are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH and authentic faith in Christ doesn't stop believing and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.

If you stop believing you no longer have that which the power of God comes through for the keeping of salvation.

If you stop believing, then you demonstrate that your faith was never firmly rooted and established in Christ from the start. Temporary, shallow belief that has no root is not saving belief.

Now I suppose the argument is going to be that the believer can never stop believing. Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

Now you say maybe?

If you're of the 2nd type of soil in the Parable of the Sower you can fall away because the word in your heart is not deeply rooted. If you're of the 4th kind of soil the word goes down deep and is producing fruit and can withstand the storms of life in perseverance.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away."-Luke 8:13

“But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance."-Luke 8:15

The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." Problem from the start. Temporary, shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. Temporary, shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away. That does not represent saving belief. Faith without works is dead.

In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.*

Have an honest and good heart that retains the word of God and bears fruit in perseverance. Then you will be secure and not able to be moved away from the gospel.

Having an honest and good heart that retains the word of God results in bearing fruit and perseverance.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

personally i think grandpa made a valid point....

id like to word it a bit different

anyone who has been given a new heart and spirit by God
couldnt fathom
to "stop" believing


but if you "stop" believing that in ITSELF shows wether or not your faith is genuine.....

so to say

"others may stop believing and lose salvation"
well sure
this is true
but that shows their faith was a fleeting temporary faith not backed up be the proof that comes when the new heart and spirit He places in you TESTIFIES (constantly) He is who He says....

it is literally impossible for me to stop believing

nothing and no one could make me not believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior

and i expect all my brothers and sisters in Christ would agree that we are not of them who turn from belief


as for those who believe they are saved and are not
thats a different group (still unbelievers... they believe in a false god they made up or works to save them or their performance in regards to the law... no faith in Jesus as their SAVIOR)
(he NEVER knew them.. they did not have then lose salvation... they were never adopted children to begin with)