Amillennialism

[prove-all]

Another question....how many heavens are there?

Heaven Defined

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them”
This word heavens refers to two different heavens. (Gen. 2:1)

The first heaven consists of the Earth’s atmosphere. The second heaven is
the vast reaches of space beyond the atmosphere.

There is also a third heaven: the home of God. The Apostle Paul saw this “third heaven,”
where God’s throne is, in a vision (ii Cor. 12:1-2). This vision was so intensely realistic
that Paul was unable to tell if he was physically there, or if he was seeing it in his mind.

In Heb. 4:14, the phrase “into the heavens,” should be translated “through the heavens.”
We see that Jesus Christ passed through the first two heavens—Earth’s atmosphere and
outer space—as He ascended to the third heaven.

John 3:13 reveals that no man has ascended to heaven except for Jesus Christ.

Certainly many have ascended to the first and second heavens by aircraft, spacecraft and
other means,this verse can only refer to the third heaven, where the Almighty God resides.

Some have said that Elijah ascended to heaven, which he did—but not to the third
heaven. He was taken by chariots of fire up into the first heaven (ii Kings 2:11).
The Hebrew word used for heaven here is the same as in Genesis 2:1.

Elijah did not die during this experience. In fact, Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram
years after this event (ii Chron. 21:12). Elijah had been miraculously transported to
another location on Earth.

Heaven is not, as some believe, the future home of any man, righteous or not.
Revelation 5:10 shows that God’s saints will reign not in heaven but “on the earth.”

 

[prove-all]

Please expand as long as you know the promise is to the Seed not seeds.

A promise to King David


David succeeded Saul. David sat on the Eternal’s throne. David’s son Solomon
succeeded him, also sitting on the Eternal’s throne.(1 Chronicles 29:23;2 Chron 9:8).

2 Samuel 23:1, 5,“Now these be the last words of David."God hath made with me
an everlasting covenant,ordered in all things, and sure” 2 Samuel 7:4-5,12-16

12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,
I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels,
and I will establish his kingdom.

He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
“Then Solomon sat on the throne of the [Eternal] as king instead of David his father”

David’s throne was set up and established [with Solomon],16)
—was established forever in Solomon (verse 13)

King Solomon built the temple, the house for God

“I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed
will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations” (Psalm 89:3-4).

-it says all generations

What if Solomon, or the children of Israel, disobey? God will chasten them
with the rod of men, but will not break this covenant.

God will not take the throne away as He took it from Saul.


Jesus is both the “root” and the “offspring” of David (Revelation 22:16).


14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity,
I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

David’s throne was set up and established with Solomon, David’s son.
The throne—David’s throne (verse 16)—was established forever in Solomon

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel may I ask, do you believe that Jesus was literally killed on earth and physically resurrected?
if you believe that, is it such a stretch to believe that his reign as king will be literal and physical on the earth as well?

The sacrificial lamb came to (what we call) the real world. The King will come to the real world too. The scriptures are not all metaphor and allusion. His love for us isn't symbolic. It's real.

I believe Jesus will reign as eternal king upon the New Heaven and New Eaeth.

I also believe He is reigning as King in Heaven NOW and has tossed Satan out of Heaven to roam the earth, literally.

That does not answer the question....is there symbolism used in the Book of Revelation?

Have you studied OT prophecies and visions and seen how God FULFILLED them?

Do you know the prophecies Jesus FULFILLED in His life?

Would you classify all of His words as LITERAL or symbolic?

 

[Ahwatukee]

You are adding words there , it says [no man]

Jesus ascended up into heaven in his resurrected, immortal and glorified body. "No man" has done that. I'm just connecting the dots and filling in the blanks. No man has ascended to heaven in a resurrected, immortal and glorified body as Christ did.

In support of the spirits of the righteous going to be in the Lord, we have scriptures that I specified which Paul says "to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord, and to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord." Therefore, at the time of death the spirit departs and goes to be with the Lord, where the body sleeps in the dust of the earth.

We many scripture demonstrating the conscious awareness of the spirit after death. We have souls under the altar in heaven at the opening of the 5th seal, we have Moses and Elijah appearing with Jesus and having a conversation with him regarding his departure. We have Jesus telling the man crucified next to him that "today you will be with me in paradise." One would have to be conscious and aware in order to be able to experience paradise. Since they both died that day, then Jesus would have had to be referring to their spirits being in that place of paradise, which was that same place where Abraham and Lazarus were across from the place of torment in Sheol/Hades. Therefore, I am not adding words, but my conclusion comes from cross-referencing and comparing scripture.

 

[prove-all]

Please expand as long as you know the promise is to the Seed not seeds.

Abraham is the “ father of the faithful” (see Galatians 3:7)
If we are Christ’s we are Abraham’s children (Galatians 3:29)
that Abraham was called on to be willing to sacrifice his only (legitimate) son (Genesis 22:2)

For the promise, that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world Romans 4:13
all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,
belong sole to Israel (Romans 9:4).

God promised that Abraham’s literal, human, flesh and blood descendants
should become “a great nation” (Genesis 12:2);

that He would “multiply thee exceedingly” (Genesis 17:2);
that“thou shalt be a father of many nations” (verse 4); and that “I will make
thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee”(verse 6).

In Genesis 17:8, God promised “all the land of Canaan,” but in other scriptures
He promised much more. In Genesis 15:18: “

Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [the Nile]
unto the great river,the river Euphrates. The Euphrates is a considerable
distance to the east in the ancient land of Babylon,

Genesis 24:60 to Abraham’s daughter-in-law: “e thou
the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess
the gate of those which hate them.”

“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou hast done this thing,
and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee,
and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of his enemies.

The promise now is unconditional.

This legacy guaranteed on the authority of God
Almighty, unconditionally, multitudinous population, untold
wealth and material resources, national greatness and world power!

The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,” Christ,
and of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the scepter promise.

But the material and national promises relating to many nations, national wealth,
prosperity and power, and possessionof the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.

Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal
to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.

 

[prove-all]

In support of the spirits of the righteous going to be in the Lord, we have scriptures that I specified which Paul says "to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord, and to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord."

-They are willing or want to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
Contextually we have seen this happens at the resurrection not instantly.

Paul does not say or even infer that this is instantaneous at all. He simply says
he would like to be out of this mortal body and to be present with the Lord.
He does not even say that one equals the other but rather he wants to with the Lord.


Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

Notice that he says, "present or absent" we may be accepted of him.
If being absent means He is already with the Lord then
how is it that the absent still hopes to be accepted of him?

Paul is simply saying that they labour in life by faith in this mortal body.
and the works that they do will follow them even in death/absent.

 

[Ariel82]

Hebrews 12

22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[

 

[Ahwatukee]

I also believe He is reigning as King in Heaven NOW and has tossed Satan out of Heaven to roam the earth, literally.

Satan and his angels being tossed out of heaven will be the result of the 7th trumpet. That said, have you seen the results of trumpets 5 and 6 as taking place?

At the sounding of the 5th trumpet, an angel will be opening the literal Abyss and will be releasing those demonic beings resembling locusts who will be tormenting the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion.

At the sounding of the 6th trumpet, those four angels will be released and will gather their demonic army of 200 million who will kill a third of mankind.

Since Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven is the result of the 7th trumpet, then we would have first had to have seen trumpets 5 and 6 above take place, which we have not, ergo, Satan and his angels have not yet been cast out of heaven.

 

[Ariel82]

Abraham is the “ father of the faithful” (see Galatians 3:7)
If we are Christ’s we are Abraham’s children (Galatians 3:29)
that Abraham was called on to be willing to sacrifice his only (legitimate) son (Genesis 22:2)

For the promise, that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world Romans 4:13
all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory,
belong sole to Israel (Romans 9:4).

God promised that Abraham’s literal, human, flesh and blood descendants
should become “a great nation” (Genesis 12:2);

that He would “multiply thee exceedingly” (Genesis 17:2);
that“thou shalt be a father of many nations” (verse 4); and that “I will make
thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee”(verse 6).

In Genesis 17:8, God promised “all the land of Canaan,” but in other scriptures
He promised much more. In Genesis 15:18: “

Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [the Nile]
unto the great river,the river Euphrates. The Euphrates is a considerable
distance to the east in the ancient land of Babylon,

Genesis 24:60 to Abraham’s daughter-in-law: “e thou
the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess
the gate of those which hate them.”

“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou hast done this thing,
and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee,
and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of his enemies.

The promise now is unconditional.

This legacy guaranteed on the authority of God
Almighty, unconditionally, multitudinous population, untold
wealth and material resources, national greatness and world power!

The spiritual promises—the promises of the “one seed,” Christ,
and of salvation through Him—the Bible calls the scepter promise.

But the material and national promises relating to many nations, national wealth,
prosperity and power, and possessionof the Holy Land, the Bible calls the birthright.

Both the birthright and the scepter were repromised by the Eternal
to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob.

And God promises it all to Abraham's Seed not seeds who is Christ Jesus.

 

[notuptome]

And God promises it all to Abraham's Seed not seeds who is Christ Jesus.

Abrahams seed is Israel through whom Christ came according to the flesh. It is not just one person. The promise is that in Abraham shall all the nations be blessed again this is through Christ as the Redeemer sent from God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ahwatukee]

-They are willing or want to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
Contextually we have seen this happens at the resurrection not instantly.

"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord."

"We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

If they would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord, then it would infer that when they die their spirits go to be in his presence, ergo, to be away from the body is to be at home with the Lord.

"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

Above, Paul says, "For to me, to live is Christ and to dies is gain." If Paul was going to lie in the ground after death, what would he be gaining? The gain that he is speaking of would be that he would depart from his body and his spirit would go to be in the presence of the Lord. Also, the scripture is clear in that, Paul was torn between remaining in the body for the benefit of the Philippians vs. dying and his spirit departing to be with the Lord.

As I said, we have plenty of scripture showing the conscious existence of the spirit after death. When compare all of these scriptures then you get a full picture that at the time of death, the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord and the body decays in the earth, referred to as sleeping.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Please expand as long as you know the promise is to the Seed not seeds.

Ariel,

You may not know this but the word "seed" has THREE applications in the Abrahamic Covenant:

1. Christ (as the descendant of Abraham through whom blessings would come upon all nations).

2. Believers (as spiritual descendants of the man Abraham who believed God and to whom righteousness was imputed).

3. Israel -- the twelve tribes (redeemed, restored, and given the land of greater Israel after the second coming of Christ).

GENESIS 15

13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed [THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL/JACOB] shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed [THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL/JACOB] have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

GENESIS 17

1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed [THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL/JACOB] after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed [THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL/JACOB]after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed [THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL/JACOB] after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed [THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL/JACOB] after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

GENESIS 22

15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed [BELIEVERS] as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed [BELIEVERS] shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed [CHRIST] shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

GENESIS 26

1 And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed [BELIEVERS] to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed [BELIEVERS] all these countries; and in thy seed [CHRIST] shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

GENESIS 28

10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.
11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.
12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed [THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL/JACOB];
14 And thy seed [BELIEVERS] shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed [CHRIST] shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

 

[prove-all]

And God promises it all to Abraham's Seed not seeds who is Christ Jesus.

you are still missing the two fold promises given to Abraham.

One was the [one seed ] meaning Christ,
But the birthright was given to Israel , not the Jews.
And the bible never calls Jews, the no. kingdom of Israel


“By myself have I sworn, saith the [Eternal], for because thou hast done this thing,
and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee,
and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand
which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gates of his enemies.

Here Christ gives A promise to Abraham , to his physical [seed]
that would be too many to count.

 

[MattG]

3 Heavens.

1. Sky
2. Galaxy
3. Where God dwells. - Kingdom of God O_O or maybe not... no that couldn't possibly be it. My mind just hit me with this lol.

 

[Ariel82]

No i accept what the Bible clearly states:

Galatians 3:16

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds ," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

Also spiritual things are hidden unless God grants you eyes to see.

Jesus even said that some people don't want to be cured of their blindness because they claim to already see.

I am going to look into how God FULFILLED his prophecies in the past and see if that gives any insight into Revelation

 

[Ariel82]

...,,mmmmm..., So "seed" is suppose to be symbolic and not taken to mean JUST Jesus even though we have scriptural support that God means JESUS not many people....but the number 1000 has to be literal and not symbolic?

 

[trofimus]

No i accept what the Bible clearly states:

Galatians 3:16

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds ," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

What Scripture is Paul talking about?

 

[prove-all]

I am going to look into how God FULFILLED his prophecies in the past
and see if that gives any insight into Revelation

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.

The second coming is in actuality a continuation of the first.

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me
to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,
to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down.
And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

He stop reading just there, closed the book, and sat down?

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me
to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
And here is where He stopped reading in mid sentence.


Now the passage He quoted continues...

and [the day of vengeance] of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty
for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD,
that he might be glorified.

Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall
be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers
of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their
portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

He came the first time to complete Isa 61:1-2 but not all of verse 2. When He returns,
after the day of vengeance, He will complete verse 2 and forward through verse 7.

 

[MattG]

Some people think in the name of Jesus Christ it's actually nessicary to just cause division because he didn't come to bring peace but a sword...

Which is the the Word of God, the sword that is double edged, and the scriptures can be used like one, to cut you all to pieces if you never agree with someone who has a difference in opinion.

There can't be a third coming after the second there is no continuation prove-all (just reading your post not calling you out really my friend in Christ Jesus I don't like fighting) ...

Once everything was fulfilled it means everything is done, there is no doing it over, or making it happen again...

Even Jesus Christ, said that there would be no greater tribulation than the one that was to come for the generation at the time.

Who I believe? People, or what Jesus Christ says.