GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[lightbearer]

You are wrong I am afraid to say. You are interpreting scripture as you think it is and not as it actually is. Consequently you have a fabrication.

No it is the context of the passage "As" is direct Comparison. So it is A Ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. It is the calling to those who entered in their rest (the Gospel rest in Jesus in GOD) to cease from their work AS GOD did. GOD ceased from HIS work on the Seventh Day. So we in harmony with Christ and the FATHER cease from our work on the Seventh Day which is the Day HE hallowed and blessed. If HE hallowed a Day who are we to unhallow it?

Mounce writes in His concise Greek English dictionary in regards to the word rest in verse 9:
G4520
σαββατισμός sabbatismos 1x
properly a keeping of a sabbath;


"Remaineth" in the KJV in the Greek is define as follows by Mounce :
G620
ἀπολείπω apoleipō 7x
to leave, leave behind;

It is in the presence tense. The rendering of the Greek to English looks something like this, "therefore is being left a Sabbath keeping to the people of GOD"

 

[Dan_473]

Neither, it is a sin and breaking God's 4th commandment as it can be done on the preparation day or the next day after the Sabbath.

the disciples were following Jesus
this is where he led them
Matthew 12: 1. At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

 

[lightbearer]

Have blessed Sabbath everyone. I am off to Church.

LORD be with us all through YOUR Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Studyman]

sure, here's a scripture we can discuss

Romans 10: 13. For, "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." - Bible Offline

to me that clearly says how to be saved
does it say that to you, too?

Sure, let's have a discussion. What does it mean to "Call on" in the context of this verse?

The Greek for "call" in this context is "epikaleomai"

1.
means to "entitle" (give (someone) a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something.

to invoke ( for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.,) appeal unto, call upon.

So there are a lot of sources in this world that would provide religious or other "aid", instructions on how to "worship", they give "testimony", and help us with life "decisions". Gov't. programs, various religious programs, secular programs.

Isn't the instruction here to "entitle" Jesus to the right to give us these things, as opposed to the "many" other sources who also provide "aid"?

But how can I "call on " the Lord if I don't believe in Him?

And how can I believe in Him if I haven't heard Him speak?

And how can I know what He says if someone doesn't tell me?

 

[Dan_473]

Those who practice lying will not enter the kingdom of God.


Those who spread heresy will will not inherit the kingdom of God.


[FONT=&quot]19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[c] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.[/FONT]

Unless you you can show from the scriptures in the New Testament, specific instruction as to how to obeserve the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then you are guilty of promoting a man made doctrine of heresy.


Please point out for me the New Testament scriptures, in any of your post’s that instructs the Church as to how to specifically observe the Sabbath, under the New Covenant.

Most of your post is instruction from the law of Moses.


Example:

If you believe the Church is to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, then please quote some verses where Paul instructs the Churches to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath.

If the Church is commanded to attend a synagogue on the Sabbath, I know everyone here would want to obey that command from the Lord.



If you have some important things to add to the Church about the Sabbath, such as attending a synagogue, please quote the Chapter and verse from the New Testament, that teaches this.

If you have any other things about the Sabbath, that we need to know, such as limited travel, special foods, or anything else, please point us to those New Testament verses, so we can comply.


I would honestly like to study any scriptures from the New Testament that instruct or direct or command us how to observe the Sabbath under the guidelines of the New Covenant.

Paul was the main apostle, who was sent by Jesus Christ to preach, and teach as well as instruct the Gentiles in the way of God’s Kingdom.


I find nothing from him as to how the Church is to observe the Sabbath.


Nothing about commanding the Church to attend a synagogue, or restricting travel, or commands to not gather sticks to build a fire...

In order to have a Bible Study, we first have to have pertanent scriptures that pertain to this subject, in order to study and discuss.

There is no use in quoting Old Testament scriptures that pertain to the Sabbath since the law of Moses commanded death, to those who so much as gathered sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath.


You have ignored this request of mine for months, and have lied repeatedly that you have answered when all you do is post scriptures from the law of Moses.

Posting a scripture that says it’s ok to do good on the Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was made for man, none of which give us specific instructions as to how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.




JPT

not specific to the Sabbath but Sabbath day instruction for the church
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

*************

posted from my phone, blessings!

 

[Dan_473]

Sure, let's have a discussion. What does it mean to "Call on" in the context of this verse?

The Greek for "call" in this context is "epikaleomai"

1.
means to "entitle" (give (someone) a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something.

to invoke ( for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.,) appeal unto, call upon.

So there are a lot of sources in this world that would provide religious or other "aid", instructions on how to "worship", they give "testimony", and help us with life "decisions". Gov't. programs, various religious programs, secular programs.

Isn't the instruction here to "entitle" Jesus to the right to give us these things, as opposed to the "many" other sources who also provide "aid"?

But how can I "call on " the Lord if I don't believe in Him?

And how can I believe in Him if I haven't heard Him speak?

And how can I know what He says if someone doesn't tell me?

28*And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29*And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30*And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31*The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the*Lord*come.

32*And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the*Lord*shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the*Lord*hath said, and in the remnant whom the*Lord*shall call.


asking for deliverance
deliverance, as the*Lord*hath said

 

[Studyman]

according to the kjv,
Acts 21: 25. But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written our decision that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from food offered to idols, from blood, from strangled things, and from sexual immorality."


two great things here

"concerning the Gentiles"

"they should observe no such thing"

I'm quite sure that even the Pharisees, who Jesus called the children of satan, were not drinking blood, eating from strangled animal, fornicating or involved in idolatry to the extent of pagans who had "turned to God".

The Pharisees had God's instructions, and their religion included some of them as Jesus said.

Rom. 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

James and Peter were instructing Gentiles who didn't have the oracles of God. They didn't want them burdened by the "Yoke" of the doctrines the Jews taught which were from the "Commandments of man", and not the Word of God, as it is written.

 

[PS]

Well if you do not think that baal and GOD were in the flaming bush together you need to rethink your theology. Because you just said that the LORD mentioned in verse 3:2 is baal. And then said no they were not in the bush together when the text states that the Lord appeared in the bush and GO called out of the bush. You contradicted yourself my friend.

I said the LORD in verse 3:2 was the I AM and when you asked if I thought Baal was in the bush I said "'O dear me no."

There is no point in continuing this.

 

[Studyman]

That describes Moses when he forsook the I AM and turned to a Canaanite god called Yahweh. LINK

Well you must discredit God's Prophets the same way the Pharisees tried to discredit Jesus, the same way the serpent tried to discredit God to Eve. God's Words expose your father. So you must find a way to destroy them.

Same wicked heart, same tactic against God that they hate, just a different century.

 

[lightbearer]

I said the LORD in verse 3:2 was the I AM and when you asked if I thought Baal was in the bush I said "'O dear me no."

There is no point in continuing this.

No this is what you said.

In verse 3:2. Baal is also called LORD.

 

[Studyman]

God delivered the Israelites out of Egypt without the people so much a spilling a single drop of blood.

Neither will mankind spill a drop of blood when Jesus, the Lamb returns, (it was Jesus, the I AM, who delivered them out of Egypt) However, there will be lots of blood shed by man in the name of 'god' before Jesus does return, just as in the days of Moses.

It is unfortunate that the Israelites, after their release from Egypt, then turned to foreign gods. Aaron turned to Baal and the Golden Calf, while Moses who had been a captain in the Egyptian army and trained in warfare, turned to the sword and the god of war, he should have continued to trust in the I AM, but the people were grumbling.

So all the people took off their gold earrings and brought them to Aaron. He took the earrings, melted them, poured the gold into a mould, and made a gold bull-calf. The people said, "Israel, this is our god, who led us out of Egypt!" Then Aaron built an altar in front of the gold bull-calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to honour the LORD."
(Exo 32:3-5)

The song Moses taught the people on their exit from Egypt was in praise of Jesus the Lamb, but unfortunately they turned their backs on the I AM and I see the same hostility towards Jesus on the forums today. It makes me want to weep. They worship Moses and dishonour Jesus.

You dislike hearing the truth about Moses, but how about facing reality and accept the facts? The alternative is to say scripture is a lie. Then you can fight for the truth about Jesus and lift him high.

You are the liar here PS. The Israelites which fell killed themselves as they knew the truth and rejected it.

But not all as your falsely preach.

Num. 14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.


As I have said, you must discredit Moses as His teaching exposes who your god is.

 

[Studyman]

Why did Jesus break the sabbath?

He didn't break God's Sabbath, He broke the Sabbath the Pharisees created. As it is written.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[justpassinthrough]

not specific to the Sabbath but Sabbath day instruction for the church
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

*************

posted from my phone, blessings!

Where are the specific instructions for the Sabbath in this post?

are you claiming that we are to bear one another’s burdens, only on the Sabbath?

 

[Studyman]

TWO LORDS
And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These are thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt. And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To-morrow is a feast to the LORD. And they rose early on the morrow, and offered burnt-offerings, and brought peace-offerings: and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. And the LORD said to Moses, Go, go down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
(Exo 32:4-7)


ALSOAnd the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds. Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who prophesy in my name (Jeremiah 14:14)

Be careful who the LORD is. Would the LORD who is the same today, yesterday and forever, give Moses the 6th commandment, not to murder, then would the same LORD command Moses to commit mass murder. I do not believe the I AM would.

Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Unless you are of the religion that preaches we are all born with immortality, this will kill billions of people. And if you are a servant of the Pope and preach that all humans are immortal, then this will condemn billions of people to eternal suffering. Either way, the jesus you have created and preach isn't the Jesus who created the choice between life and death.

 

[Dan_473]

I'm quite sure that even the Pharisees, who Jesus called the children of satan, were not drinking blood, eating from strangled animal, fornicating or involved in idolatry to the extent of pagans who had "turned to God".

The Pharisees had God's instructions, and their religion included some of them as Jesus said.

Rom. 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

James and Peter were instructing Gentiles who didn't have the oracles of God. They didn't want them burdened by the "Yoke" of the doctrines the Jews taught which were from the "Commandments of man", and not the Word of God, as it is written.

James is talking to Paul here

Paul who
walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25*As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe
no such thing

 

[Studyman]

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (Heb 4:9-10 KJV)

The 'rest' is still to come.

That is why we are to "Remember" God's Holy, Sanctified Sabbath that He created for man. To remind us of this rest "That has yet to come".

 

[Dan_473]

Where are the specific instructions for the Sabbath in this post?

are you claiming that we are to bear one another’s burdens, only on the Sabbath?

i don't think there are specific instructions about the Sabbath for the church
i can't find anything in the same vein as, say, instructions about the use of spiritual gifts

so yes, bear one another's burdens everyday

 

[Studyman]

The Israelites worshipped many idols.

Baal and YHWH.
Whatever facts can be gathered from the original accounts of that time in regard to this Yhwh cult at the old Canaanite sanctuaries, which was perhaps also influenced by the ritual of the Canaanites themselves, are confirmed by the accounts referring to several of these places of worship. Thus there was at Shechem a Baal-berith ( = "covenant Baal"), who was evidently intended as the guardian and protector of the covenant made between the Israelites and the Canaanites in regard to their dwelling together in peace (Judges ix.). As it is not explained whether he was intended to represent Yhwh or Baal, the Canaanite part of the inhabitants of Shechem probably took him to be Baal, while the Israelites recognized him, in spite of his name "Baal," as Yhwh. And Jerubbaal (Gideon), who, as stated above, went to battle in behalf of Yhwh, and erected a sanctuary to Yhwh in his native city of Ophrah, set up in the sanctuary an ephod, that is, an idol, which, in accordance with Canaanite custom and skill, was finely wrought and covered with precious metals. The later reviser of Gideon's story not unjustly regarded this as a grievous apostasy on the part of Gideon and his contemporaries (ib. viii., especially verses 27 et seq.). The Danites, on their expedition to Laish, found a similar idol on Mount Ephraim, together with teraphim, images probably representing progenitors of the tribe or race. While the narrator of the story is sure that both emblems refer to the cult of Yhwh, and are not images of Baal and Ashtaroth, the reviser thinks it necessary always to add the words to in order to indicate that they were carved and cast images (and hence did not belong to the Yhwh cult, which permitted no such images). When the Danites seized the images together with the attendant priest, and carried them to Dan, a sanctuary arose there that subsequently became famous, and whose Levitic priests traced their descent back to Moses (ib. xvii-xviii., especially xviii. 30).


JUDGES, PERIOD OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com


There is a lot more.

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

These inspired Words tell us exactly why those things happened to "MANY" of the Israelites.

Are these scriptures also irrelevant in your religion?

 

[Studyman]

Those who practice lying will not enter the kingdom of God.

Unless you you can show from the scriptures in the New Testament, specific instruction as to how to obeserve the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then you are guilty of promoting a man made doctrine of heresy.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This promise of the New Covenant doesn't mention the destruction of God's Laws. It is only speaking to the Priesthood. It deals with 2 things,

#1. the administration of God's Instructions.

#2. The manner in which sins are forgiven.

No more do we go to the Levite Scribes to hear them read God's Words to us, Jesus will write them on our hearts.

No more taking animals to the Levite Priests to atone for our sins, Jesus sheds His own Blood once and for all.

Hebrews confirms this Biblical Truth.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

This refers to #1. The Administration of God's Instructions (Law)

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

So there was a "change" of God's Law in the New Covenant, what was it?

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Jesus was from Judah, He was not a Levite and the Law of Moses prescribed. For Jesus to become our High Priest, this Law needed to be changed so that the requirement of only the Levite to hold the Priesthood office might be changed.

No other mention of any of God's Instructions being changed. No mention of God's Sabbath being changed or eliminated in the New Covenant.

Unless you you can show from the scriptures in the New Testament, specific instruction as to how to obeserve the Sabbath under the New Covenant, then you are guilty of promoting a man made doctrine of heresy.

You are the one who had made the Word of God of none effect by your own traditions. Unless you can specifically show me where God changed His Sabbath, " you are guilty of promoting a man made doctrine of heresy".

 

[Studyman]

James is talking to Paul here

Paul who
walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25*As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe
no such thing

Only if you reject EVERY WORD Jesus ever spoke about the Pharisees and their religious traditions would you believe that they were trying to teach the New Converts to obey God. Only if you side with the Pharisees and reject Jesus and His teaching, could you possibly believe the Pharisees were truly keeping and teaching to "Keep the Law of Moses".

Only by ignoring the fact that Peter and James turned the New Converts away from the Pharisees who opposed them and their teaching, and directed them into 4 of God's Laws given to us by Moses, and directing them to learn from Moses in the synagogues on the Sabbath. Which is the exact same thing Jesus instructed His Apostles to do in Matt. 23.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

This would have included Peter and James, Yes?
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Jesus is acknowledging that the Scribes and Pharisees were administers of God's Instructions. Yes?

3
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

So Jesus is telling His Apostles, and everyone else that heard Him, to listen to Moses and do what he says. Can you deny this Biblical Truth?

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols,(Law of Moses) and from fornication,(Law of Moses) and from things strangled,(Law of Moses) and from blood.(Law of Moses)

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Your preaching that Peter or James turned the New Converts away from the Commandments of God in acts 15 is Biblically incorrect. And I assume you only do so in an attempt to defend your religious traditions of rejecting many of God's instructions. Just note that it was the Pharisees who rejected God's word and created their own religion, not Jesus or His Apostles.