The Rapture

[Endoscopy]

A-F,

B

What do you base that on? We see things so differently. I see the 5th trumpet in Rev 9 as the arrival of Titus and his attack on the walls of Jerusalem in Feb of 70 AD. Trumpets have always been blown to announce the arrival of an enemy and impending war. It's sounded to alarm the people and gather the solders.



How can you know this? Could you see a soul leaving Hades and going to heaven and receiving its spiritual body all happening within the spiritual realm if you were a mortal on earth? Today when someone dies, do you see them leave their bodies and enter heaven? Give me a verse where a mortal person witnesses the "resurrection of the saints" please. I want a verse where it is clear that it is a mortal witnessing spirits rising.



Saved Israel only at this point in time. The rest of Israel (the unsaved) are the subject of the "WRATH" that we see here:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

This vengeance is the WRATH OF GOD AND THE LAMB. It is aimed squarely at the unbelieving Jews of 70 AD (THAT GENERATION which killed Messiah). We see it first told here:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

This wrath against the unbelieving Jew (esp their leaders) is mentioned again, and again,

John 3: He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Rom 1: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness

Rom 2: But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God...but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Who were following the Law? Not the Romans and certainly not any Gentile.

Rom 4: because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Eph 2: among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Who is God speaking to here? Who is God and the Lamb mad at? Can you think of a worse crime than killing the Son of God?

Heb 3: So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’”

Heb 4: For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’”

Who are the "they" not entering (His) rest? They are the unbelieving Jews who have been persecuting and killing the believing Jews.


We have 7 trumpets, right? This is Jericho imagery. What happened to Jericho when the 7th and final trumpet sounded? The 7th was the last. The first 6 were "warnings" of what was finally going to come. The breach, the fire and final destruction of the temple, the city and the Law all happened when the 7th sounded. This is why the 12 tribes were angry (Rev 11:18).

We are told that this is when the dead would rise. Daniel 12 talks about it first, then Jesus confirms it and if that wasn't enough, Paul double confirms the timing. Sadly we cannot see events in the spiritual realm from our physical realm. But, they can see into our realm and some can actually visit us, presumably with permission from God. Some of us can visit them too, like Ezekiel, Paul and John for example. But they were all "in the spirit" when they did.



It was both a resurrection and a gathering. See Mt 13. Why did Jesus use the "wheat and tare" analogy/parable? Because you cannot visibly tell an unbelieving Jew (tare) from a believing Jew (wheat). They look identical to the observer. Jesus compares and contrasts the Sons of Light to the Sons of Darkness all the time. He says:

Lk 12: [SUP]51 [/SUP]Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. [SUP]52 [/SUP]For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. [SUP]53 [/SUP]Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”

Then we see it told again and it actually happened leading up to 70 AD. 10 of the 11 were indeed martyred, most by their own people.

Lk 21: [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake.

Who was betrayed? Who was put to death? Who was hated?



The Trib was the events leading up to that final day in 70 AD. The conditions inside the city were the tribulation of those days. Immediately after those days ended and Titus won, that's when the resurrection happened. All those who died in Christ immediately went to heaven. Those of us (them) who were still alive and remaining, we met them in heaven when we die. We shall not all sleep (go to Hades to rest) but we shall all be changed, in the twinkling of an eye, when we die.

Please study why Christ was angry and who was He angry at?

You keep ignoring these prophecies are part of eschatology (end times). 70 AD wasn't end times. All Christians living and dead will disappear from earth for a time. Part of end times Christ will return so everyone will see him and rule the world from a throne in Jerusalem. I don't seem to remember these things happening. Did I miss it somehow?

 

[Roadkill]

Where is this written? Scriptures plainly teach there is ONLY One Judgment Day, and that day is NOT the time of death of a person. Judgment Day, when Jesus Returns to the Earth the second Time, is the ONLY DAY that determines who will and who will not go to Heaven or to Hell? On that specific Day is when the Books are opened and if your name is found in the Book of Life, ON THAT DAY, it is on that Day that you are judged to go to Heaven.

There is no Scriptures that teach when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven or that they immediately go to Hell. If that was the case then Judgment Day is at the time of death of a person. This is a false doctrine, and is not True nor is it Scriptural.

Judgment Day is the ONLY Day that determines who is going to Heaven and who is not. On That DAY, is when the dead are then Judged, and those who are sleeping IN CHRIST are then at that DAY risen to be with Jesus where He is. The rest of the dead are not risen for battle until after the millennial Period is over.

Scriptures PLAINLY teaches what Day determines if a person goes to Heaven or not, and that is Judgment Day, The Day of the Lord, the Rapture. satan falsely teaches that a person goes to Heaven when they die, this is not taught anywhere in Scriptures.



The Great White Throne Judgment is to judge satan, demons, all those who rejected Jesus, Unsaved, and the "goat" christians, whose names were once written in the Book of Life, but have been blotted out of the Book of Life.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Once again, this is not Directly Stated in the Bible but told to me by this Angel. There are verses that point to this being true though. Read these and judge for yourself.

Hebrews 9:27
2 Corinthians chapter 5

Now consider also what Jesus taught in a parable( which I believe to be a true tale by the way) about Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke chapter 16 verses 19-31

The Rich man lifted up his eyes in Hades, on the Bad Side by the way.
Lazarus was in Hades also but on the paradise side with Abraham.

This insinuates some kind of Judgement occurred for Both to be in their appropriate places in Hades. Contrary to belief, Hades was a holding area for the Saints and the Damned. Jesus, after his death and Resurrection, opened the paradise side of Hades and released all the Old Testament Saints who believed that Jesus was coming as promised by God to them. This "Paradise" side of Hade is now open and no one is there. The Bad side of Hades still holds all the damned and is awaiting the Great White Throne Judgement before releasing them to Hell.

Now those of us alive and die in this day in age have no reason to go to Hades being Jesus has opened Heaven to the ones who believe on him. We are judged, punished like Sons and allowed into heaven. Those who appear before God without Jesus are sent to Hades to await final Judgement.

No I am not teaching the Purgatory Theory put out by the Catholic Church. Once you are in Hades in this day and age you are destined for Hell and NO ONE can get or pray you out of this place of torment.

 

[Roadkill]

Once again, this is not Directly Stated in the Bible but told to me by this Angel. There are verses that point to this being true though. Read these and judge for yourself.

Hebrews 9:27
2 Corinthians chapter 5

Now consider also what Jesus taught in a parable( which I believe to be a true tale by the way) about Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke chapter 16 verses 19-31

The Rich man lifted up his eyes in Hades, on the Bad Side by the way.
Lazarus was in Hades also but on the paradise side with Abraham.

This insinuates some kind of Judgement occurred for Both to be in their appropriate places in Hades. Contrary to belief, Hades was a holding area for the Saints and the Damned. Jesus, after his death and Resurrection, opened the paradise side of Hades and released all the Old Testament Saints who believed that Jesus was coming as promised by God to them. This "Paradise" side of Hade is now open and no one is there. The Bad side of Hades still holds all the damned and is awaiting the Great White Throne Judgement before releasing them to Hell.

Now those of us alive and die in this day in age have no reason to go to Hades being Jesus has opened Heaven to the ones who believe on him. We are judged, punished like Sons and allowed into heaven. Those who appear before God without Jesus are sent to Hades to await final Judgement.

No I am not teaching the Purgatory Theory put out by the Catholic Church. Once you are in Hades in this day and age you are destined for Hell and NO ONE can get or pray you out of this place of torment.

One last thing, this is not the Rapture where we are placed in our Resurrected bodies again but we are placed in a temporary body until the Rapture event for us and the Saints of the Great Tribulation Period.

The events of Romans 14:10-12 and Revelation 19:5-9 are separate events from this Immediate Judgement after our death.

 

[Endoscopy]

Once again, this is not Directly Stated in the Bible but told to me by this Angel. There are verses that point to this being true though. Read these and judge for yourself.

Hebrews 9:27
2 Corinthians chapter 5

Now consider also what Jesus taught in a parable( which I believe to be a true tale by the way) about Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke chapter 16 verses 19-31

The Rich man lifted up his eyes in Hades, on the Bad Side by the way.
Lazarus was in Hades also but on the paradise side with Abraham.

This insinuates some kind of Judgement occurred for Both to be in their appropriate places in Hades. Contrary to belief, Hades was a holding area for the Saints and the Damned. Jesus, after his death and Resurrection, opened the paradise side of Hades and released all the Old Testament Saints who believed that Jesus was coming as promised by God to them. This "Paradise" side of Hade is now open and no one is there. The Bad side of Hades still holds all the damned and is awaiting the Great White Throne Judgement before releasing them to Hell.

Now those of us alive and die in this day in age have no reason to go to Hades being Jesus has opened Heaven to the ones who believe on him. We are judged, punished like Sons and allowed into heaven. Those who appear before God without Jesus are sent to Hades to await final Judgement.

No I am not teaching the Purgatory Theory put out by the Catholic Church. Once you are in Hades in this day and age you are destined for Hell and NO ONE can get or pray you out of this place of torment.

You keep discrediting yourself with this Angel. How do you know it isn't a demon posing as an angel or God. Keep in mind Satan is the great deceiver!!

 

[PlainWord]

You keep ignoring these prophecies are part of eschatology (end times). 70 AD wasn't end times. All Christians living and dead will disappear from earth for a time. Part of end times Christ will return so everyone will see him and rule the world from a throne in Jerusalem. I don't seem to remember these things happening. Did I miss it somehow?

You missed some of it and misunderstood the rest. Ever wonder why there are around 100 different Bible translations in English alone? Why are there so many? Because translating (transliterating) is an imperfect science. In none of the passages were they discussing the end of Planet Earth and life as we know it. They were discussing the end of Israel and life as THEY knew it. It was how they talked that is important and how they understood their language.

We are both Americans. Let say our country will come to a violent and utter end where 93% or 306 million of us were going to die in less than 10-15 years (or 40 in the case of Christ's prophesies) and only a handful of us knew this. Would we be sounding the warning to our countrymen to change their ways or this fate would befall us? That's what the disciples did - Warn. That's what Jesus did too, He warned them, and condemned many of them because He knew they were not going to change.

The end of THAT age indeed came in 70 AD. Christ's presence returned to "supervise" the end of the Israel which rejected Him. Christ's presence returning was the same as the many times God's presence was felt in the OT when God came (in presence) to pass judgment on other evil countries in multiple "Day's of the Lord" like Egypt, Edom, Babylon and Israel in the 6th century BC. Christ used Rome to do it, just as God always used a foreign enemy to punish those countries He punished.

Christ will never reign in our physical world in an earthly man-made temple. This is where you simply misunderstand the nature of His reign and the Kingdom. It is spiritual, not physical. He reigns in a temple NOT MADE WITH HANDS. He reigns in our hearts and we all make up the spiritual temple from where He reigns. This new age (to come), we are in right now!! They were speaking of this new age and it came in 70 AD as the old Mosaic (Law) Age passed away. Physically, the planet did not see anything other than the destruction of the Jewish people. Spiritually, the changes were gigantic.

Spiritually before 70 AD:

All who die went to Hades, the righteous and wicked separated from each other by a gulf, but they were able to see each other across that gulf. Paul called this "the rest" or "sleep(ing)," or "asleep" - the spiritual state of the dead prior to Christ's return. This "death" was the result of the original sin.

Spiritually after 70 AD:

We die today, we immediately go to heaven in our new spiritual form.

We shall not all sleep (go to Hades) but we shall all be changed, into our new form, when we die. Those of us (them), who were alive and remaining in 70 AD, will not prevent those who died before them from being freed from Hades and being with Christ in Heaven. Our physical bodies (which are made of dust) return to dust. Not one molecule of these bodies make up our new spiritual body. From dust we come, to dust we return. The resurrection is not reconstruction of bodies, it is our souls being set free to go to heaven. Prior to 70 AD they were in Hades, after 70 AD, we go straight to heaven, NEVER experiencing separation from God/Christ.

 

[Endoscopy]

You missed some of it and misunderstood the rest. Ever wonder why there are around 100 different Bible translations in English alone? Why are there so many? Because translating (transliterating) is an imperfect science. In none of the passages were they discussing the end of Planet Earth and life as we know it. They were discussing the end of Israel and life as THEY knew it. It was how they talked that is important and how they understood their language.

We are both Americans. Let say our country will come to a violent and utter end where 93% or 306 million of us were going to die in less than 10-15 years (or 40 in the case of Christ's prophesies) and only a handful of us knew this. Would we be sounding the warning to our countrymen to change their ways or this fate would befall us? That's what the disciples did - Warn. That's what Jesus did too, He warned them, and condemned many of them because He knew they were not going to change.

The end of THAT age indeed came in 70 AD. Christ's presence returned to "supervise" the end of the Israel which rejected Him. Christ's presence returning was the same as the many times God's presence was felt in the OT when God came (in presence) to pass judgment on other evil countries in multiple "Day's of the Lord" like Egypt, Edom, Babylon and Israel in the 6th century BC. Christ used Rome to do it, just as God always used a foreign enemy to punish those countries He punished.

Christ will never reign in our physical world in an earthly man-made temple. This is where you simply misunderstand the nature of His reign and the Kingdom. It is spiritual, not physical. He reigns in a temple NOT MADE WITH HANDS. He reigns in our hearts and we all make up the spiritual temple from where He reigns. This new age (to come), we are in right now!! They were speaking of this new age and it came in 70 AD as the old Mosaic (Law) Age passed away. Physically, the planet did not see anything other than the destruction of the Jewish people. Spiritually, the changes were gigantic.

Spiritually before 70 AD:

All who die went to Hades, the righteous and wicked separated from each other by a gulf, but they were able to see each other across that gulf. Paul called this "the rest" or "sleep(ing)," or "asleep" - the spiritual state of the dead prior to Christ's return. This "death" was the result of the original sin.

Spiritually after 70 AD:

We die today, we immediately go to heaven in our new spiritual form.

We shall not all sleep (go to Hades) but we shall all be changed, into our new form, when we die. Those of us (them), who were alive and remaining in 70 AD, will not prevent those who died before them from being freed from Hades and being with Christ in Heaven. Our physical bodies (which are made of dust) return to dust. Not one molecule of these bodies make up our new spiritual body. From dust we come, to dust we return. The resurrection is not reconstruction of bodies, it is our souls being set free to go to heaven. Prior to 70 AD they were in Hades, after 70 AD, we go straight to heaven, NEVER experiencing separation from God/Christ.

As you were saying. Consider this about where Christ will rule from. Jerusalem!!!

Revelation 21 New International Version (NIV)

A New Heaven and a New Earth

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.This is the second death.”

 

[Roadkill]

You keep discrediting yourself with this Angel. How do you know it isn't a demon posing as an angel or God. Keep in mind Satan is the great deceiver!!

Once again, I challenged him with 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3. He confessed the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me with no problem, even sang it to me. Anyone who deals with face to face demonic warfare will tell you they will not do this. Go find someone and ask for yourself.

Also this Angel guides me in demonic warfare. As Jesus stated in Mark 3:23-26 and in Matthew 12:22-28 why would a demon help to fight other demons? It just doesn't happen and is 100 percent true if Jesus stated this as a fact.

 

[Roadkill]

i have read the entire Bible front to back over 80 times in my life, so i would imagine that i read that over 80 times.

It is appointed for each and every human person to die ONCE. This is TRUE and is Scriptural.

However that verse is not talking about, or referring to the immortal spirit that is in each one of us. Why do you think that we either spend eternity in Heaven or in Hell. Because the spirit that is in us, is immortal, God made it to where it can't be killed or destroyed. There is a Spiritual Body, and there is a fleshly body. The fleshly body is appointed to die once. The Spiritual body can never be killed. Even a spiritual death of a spirit is NOT DEATH as we know it, but a spiritual death is being separated from God for all eternity.

Scriptures plainly teach those who die in Christ, SLEEP. Believe Scriptures not what men teach you.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

The physical body is indeed asleep(physical death). But the Soul and the Spirit are not asleep. Death is not like falling asleep or being unconscious. Your Soul(conscious self) and your Spirit(life force) are separated at physical death from this physical body. You are completely aware of your surroundings and are conscious of your self being. People with near-death experiences will tell you they were totally aware of what was going on around their bodies while they were separated temporarily from it. They can tell you what people said and did while near their body. Not like some one who is unconscious, they are totally oblivious to what is going on around them while they are unconscious.

 

[Roadkill]

As you were saying. Consider this about where Christ will rule from. Jerusalem!!!

Revelation 21 New International Version (NIV)

A New Heaven and a New Earth

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.This is the second death.”

You have taken this out of context in Revelation. This event happens AFTER the 1000 year Rule of Jesus Christ here on Earth and after the battle of GOG and MAGOG in Revelation chapter 20. These events have NOT happened yet.

 

[garee]

Once again, I challenged him with 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3. He confessed the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me with no problem, even sang it to me. Anyone who deals with face to face demonic warfare will tell you they will not do this. Go find someone and ask for yourself.

Also this Angel guides me in demonic warfare. As Jesus stated in Mark 3:23-26 and in Matthew 12:22-28 why would a demon help to fight other demons? It just doesn't happen and is 100 percent true if Jesus stated this as a fact.

Peter denied Christ when face to face in demonic warfare. Jesus said we don’t know Him after the things of men, seen, influenced by the devil not seen.

The devils house will not be divided and neither will the house of God as those who walk by the eternal faith, not seen, not after that the temporal (Peter) seen . Christ cast the devil out having forgiven Peter of his blasphemy in respect to the Son of man seen .If Peter would of blasphemed the Son of God as that not seen there could be no forgiveness. Christ is not divided.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mat 16:22

 

[Roadkill]

You have taken this out of context in Revelation. This event happens AFTER the 1000 year Rule of Jesus Christ here on Earth and after the battle of GOG and MAGOG in Revelation chapter 20. These events have NOT happened yet.

My apologies Endosopy, This was meant for PlainWord

 

[Roadkill]

Peter denied Christ when face to face in demonic warfare. Jesus said we don’t know Him after the things of men, seen, influenced by the devil not seen.

The devils house will not be divided and neither will the house of God as those who walk by the eternal faith, not seen, not after that the temporal (Peter) seen . Christ cast the devil out having forgiven Peter of his blasphemy in respect to the Son of man seen .If Peter would of blasphemed the Son of God as that not seen there could be no forgiveness. Christ is not divided.

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mat 16:22

I agree with you on Matthew 16:22 but I'm not sure as to the State of Peter's mind when he denied knowing Jesus before the Cock crowed twice. He may have just been plain scared and trying to save his own skin. If this was indeed of Satan or of his own fear is unknown to me at this point and time.

 

[garee]

You have taken this out of context in Revelation. This event happens AFTER the 1000 year Rule of Jesus Christ here on Earth and after the battle of GOG and MAGOG in Revelation chapter 20. These events have NOT happened yet.

Not only does God bring His revelation as his interpretation but he also according to his poetic language give us the spiritual meaning hid in those parable like the parable chapter 20.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
according to the signified in terpretation of God used in parables ,

W hat does the literal word key represent spiritually if not the gospel not seen ? What does the literal word thousand represent spiritually as that hid form natural man that walks after the literal meanings? What is the signified meaning of a bottomless pit , or a chain . Can a literal chain bind a spirit of lies?

The parable in mind... below. Remember the prescription for seeing the unseen spiritual understanding found in that parable that uses the temporal thing seen

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I will highlight the temporal .

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Rev 20:1

 

[Endoscopy]

Once again, I challenged him with 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3. He confessed the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me with no problem, even sang it to me. Anyone who deals with face to face demonic warfare will tell you they will not do this. Go find someone and ask for yourself.

Also this Angel guides me in demonic warfare. As Jesus stated in Mark 3:23-26 and in Matthew 12:22-28 why would a demon help to fight other demons? It just doesn't happen and is 100 percent true if Jesus stated this as a fact.

A liar lies!! Period!!
Therefore anything you say comes from that angel I will assume to be a lie!!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Once again, I challenged him with 1st John chapter 4 verses 1-3. He confessed the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me with no problem, even sang it to me. Anyone who deals with face to face demonic warfare will tell you they will not do this. Go find someone and ask for yourself.

Also this Angel guides me in demonic warfare. As Jesus stated in Mark 3:23-26 and in Matthew 12:22-28 why would a demon help to fight other demons? It just doesn't happen and is 100 percent true if Jesus stated this as a fact.

Hello Roadkill,

First, I'm not saying this to be contentious. But what is your conclusion going to be regarding this so-called angel if the ground breaking doesn't take place in May? Though Israel won the six day war, Moshe Dayan relinquished control of the temple mount to Islamic religious authorities, the Waqf, otherwise, Israel would have already built her temple. I believe that this was God's doing in order to keep Israel from building the temple before the proper time in order that Daniel 9:27 would be fulfilled.

It is that ruler/antichrist who will make it possible for Israel to build her temple on the temple mount and don't believe that it will take forty years, but will be erected wrath quickly, for the treaty that he makes with Israel is what will allow them to build the temple. And since they already have the blue prints for the temple and all of the furniture, the priestly garments and other items related to the temple ready to go, I believe that it will take them no time to build it and begin to present sacrifices and offerings. In short, it is the covenant that the antichrist makes with Israel which allows them to finally build their temple and begin to sacrifice and that in the beginning of the first 3 1/2 years. In addition, the church must be gathered prior to the making of this covenant.

One thing that can be concluded from this is that, if the ground breaking for the temple doesn't take place in May as this so-called angel told you, then He cannot be from God and that because God does not lie and what He says happens. I have to say that, I am extremely skeptical regarding your claim of receiving information from a so-called angel. Even more so when you have two people stating that God is communicating with them directly such as you and DiscipleDave, yet you are not in agreement with each other. God is not a God of confusion and anyone who is speaking on behalf of God should be in agreement regarding God's word.

 

[PlainWord]

End,

As you were saying. Consider this about where Christ will rule from. Jerusalem!!!

This Jerusalem?

Gal 4: [SUP]26 [/SUP]but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Exactly!! He reigns from Heaven but also in the hearts and minds of all of us on earth who follow Him. This reigning on Earth is in our hearts and minds, not in some man-made future temple.

the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Who is the Bride of Christ? Continue in the passage you are quoting. I noticed you stopped at verse 8. Read on to verse 9:

"...“Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem.

What condition or state is John in here? He is in the spiritual state meaning he is literally in the spiritual realm. When you are "in the spirit" you are no longer in the physical realm. This new Jerusalem, located in the spiritual realm is massive. This sucker is 1500 cubic miles in size!!! No city of that magnitude could be located on our physical planet, Earth. It is so tall that it would reach past most of our satellites.

The below is the new Jerusalem also found in a book written by John:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you.

Guess what is missing in the new Jerusalem?

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

The above verse blows the whole theory many have about Christ reigning in some literal temple. He doesn't and never will!! Let's skip to the end of the chapter:

[SUP]27 [/SUP]But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Where do you expect to find those who are written in the Lamb's Book? They have passed on to the spiritual realm. In the spiritual realm, there is no sun, no day and night as God and the Lamb are the light.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

So cool. Too bad you don't seem to get it, but these are the conditions which await all of us who follow and believe in Christ. The disciples are already there as are all of our brothers and sisters who have gone ahead of us these past 2,000 years.

 

[TMS]

Is Rapture even in the Bible?

Definition of rapture. 1 : an expression or manifestation of ecstasy or passion. 2 a : a state or experience of being carried away by overwhelming emotion. b : a mystical experience in which the spirit is exalted to a knowledge of divine things.

We will be extremely happy when Jesus comes but how is it that this word is so common today when it isn't even in the Bible.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is Rapture even in the Bible?

Yes it is in the Bible, but not stated as "the Rapture". The word Rapture has been obtained from the Latin word for "caught up together", which is rapiemur. Is the truth of the Rapture in the Bible? Absolutely. If you are not convinced, kindly go to John 14:1-3 and tell us -- in your own words -- what the Lord was teaching His apostles.

 

[garee]

Yes by the measure of man a literal 1500 cubic miles in size!

My two cents...The father of lies as always tries to make that which God calls separate one, and call what God calls one , separate. The golden measuring of things of God not seen is no different

Two kinds of measures .Those of men seen a literal 1500 cubic miles and the things of God not seen 144,000as the things of God hidden in the parables... the signified poetic language of God

By the measure of God called the golden reed a symbol for the sovereignty of God who measures by residents of the city as His shaste virgin bride using the gates of the city and the walls between the gates to represent his chaste virgin bride the church. Using the golden measure of God to signify giving us the unseen spiritual understand as those who walk by faith as an unknown number represented by 144,000

The word thousand in the phrase one hundred and forty four thousand signifies throughout the scriptures that which is in unknown, not revealed, you could say as a way of mixing faith spoken of in Hebrews 4 .By it if we do not harden our hearts we will enter the Sabbath eternal rest

Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. Rev 21:11

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and "them that worship therein".

 

[tanakh]

One of the main reasons people believe in the rapture is the comment by Paul about Christians not being appointed for wrath,this of course is correct. What isnt correct is the interpretation of it. God protects us from his wrath by the shed blood of Christ.Those who are appointed for it are unbelievers. Gods wrath is not limited to seven years, three and a half years or any fixed length of time but forever in other parts of the Bible its called Hell.