Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I believe all men are born with an innate ability to love. That is part of our make-up, and yes it was given to us by God.

I also believe that when one believes in Jesus and has the HS, that innate love is intesified so good Christians can love even those that are our enemy.

We love because God first loved us.. I think men can love humanly, But divine love is impossible until a person is born again.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I believe God's agape love is not like human innate ability to love.

What the world calls love is selfish and self centered and not really love at all.

It's all about giving only to receive.

Like the "law of karma" many religions preach, even some people who claim to be Christian preach.

Even the apostles fell for the lie.it's shown when they asked Jesus "who sinned that this man was born blind, him or his parents?"
ya beat me to it sis! Lol
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you going to be willing to do a good work outined in John 6:54?
He gnawed and chewed and took in the food that God sent years ago, As have I. Are you ready to do it?
 
Sep 6, 2014
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I believe in a combination of what Christ has done for me, and what I am willing to do for him.

For instance: Read this scripure and tell me how it fits into the grace are we saved, not of works, lest we boast scenerio (by the way, I believe too)
John 6:54 King James Version (KJV)

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

So now, we know that his flesh = the bread, and his blood = the wine in our sacrament services.

But if a man refuses to partake of the sacrament because they think it is some kind of a useless work, will Jesus give them eternal life with him and God? According to the words of Jesus, no is the correct answer. Any objections?
Isaiah 44:20
He feeds on ashes. His deceived mind has led him astray, and he cannot deliver himself, or say, "Isn't there a lie in my right hand?"

Habakkuk 2:18,19
What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?
19Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

Romans 1:25

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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If there are those we have not forgiven when we ourselves pray for forgiveness, then practically speaking we are asking God not to restore a right relationship with us after we sin. To emphasize the importance of restoring broken relationships with our brothers and sisters, Jesus states that asking for God’s forgiveness for one’s own sins, all the while withholding forgiveness from someone else, is not only bizarre but hypocritical. We cannot possibly walk with God in true fellowship if we refuse to forgive others.
I could not have said it better.

To be sure, an unforgiving spirit is a serious sin and should be confessed to God. If we have unforgiveness in our hearts against someone else, then we are acting in a way that is not pleasing to God, making our prayers and a proper living relationship with Him difficult. God will not hear our prayers unless we also show ourselves ready to grant forgiveness. If we are harder than iron in this regard, Christ’s exhortation ought to soften us.
It ought to soften us, but what if it does not?

A second biblically plausible interpretation of Matthew 6:14-15 is that it is saying anyone who refuses to forgive others is demonstrating that he has not truly received Christ's forgiveness himself.
Here is the default position of OSAS. If you do not forgive, then you were not truly forgiven. Think about that, and then make sure you forgive all men that trespass against you.

It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could ultimately and permanently refuse to grant forgiveness to others.
Amen
 
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benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Isaiah 44:20
He feeds on ashes. His deceived mind has led him astray, and he cannot deliver himself, or say, "Isn't there a lie in my right hand?"

Habakkuk 2:18,19
What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?
19Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

Romans 1:25

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Do you not believe that John 6:54 is referring to the sacrament of the bread and wine?
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
It's the Holy Spirit that enables us to forgive our enemies, not something we can do.
"All manner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to man." We certainly don't learn in our understanding. If we could learn in our understanding, it would be something we could do and salvation would be by works. "If there was a law that could make us perfect, salvation would have been by the Law." It remains that the mystery of God is not in our understanding but being led by His Spirit.
I agree , but what Ben said was that if we forgive we will be granted entrance into heaven , if we don't , we wont , that is a works salvation
James refers to evidence of Faith that works by Love: to Love and forgiving our enemies is only possible by the Holy Spirit. Earthly language divided us, saying the same thing differently until perfected in Love; having Loved our enemies, carried into the death of Christ, by the Holy Spirit: dead with Him there is no more work, having entered into His rest. But if we can't Love and forgive our enemies, we are bound by works, trying to accomplish this. The work of the religious leaders was to look good outwardly, while offended and in danger of rejecting the Holy Spirit. "Blessed is he whoever is not offended in me." On the internet there is no need to look good outwardly and clean the outside of the cup, to be admired as a teacher, while "Not by the works,'' cost everything. God has a Way of turning things upside down, our old life in the cross of Christ, to have the life of Christ who has finished the work. Our whole heart invested in the Love of God. So that we have nothing to prove to anyone. "Its no longer I that lives but Christ that Lives in me." "From now on let no one trouble me for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus."
 
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Keep ignoring context, the timing of when that was said and all the verses that state, prove, alleviate law keeping by any man to obtain eternal salvation....that which deems guilt will NEVER SAVE OR JUSTIFY BEFORE GOD!
New International Version 1984 Romans 8:1-4 Life Through the Spirit Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Pride, Legalism, Religion.

We saw it in the pharisees. We see it in the church. 4000 years, and men are still making the same mistakes even after God giving us the word to show us how a mistake it is to trust in these things. People still fall for it.

One of satans greatest victories.
Let me tell you where satan's victory will be sweet for him.

A person thinks they are saved, but they don't believe Jesus when he says you have to forgive, because they think it is some meaningless work that is somehow trumped by grace.

I believe you are a man who forgives readily, and so this is no problem. However, other 'good' Christians, thinking they are saved, and are not able to forgive easily, could have a problem with their walk with God.
 
Dec 22, 2017
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Amen......the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists version of salvation is like a vitamin supplement store where you embellish "yo" workouts with protein powder, vitamins b6, 3, 12 and a shot of oxishred just to get that extra boost over the finish line......not!
The ZOMBIES are groping and WALKING DEAD....

New International Version 1984 Revelation 3:1-6 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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The ZOMBIES are groping and WALKING DEAD....

New International Version 1984 Revelation 3:1-6 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
I figure there were a lot of people in Ephesus (Revelaions 2) that thought they were saved until they got that letter from Jesus, and then they knew they were not. Glad they got that letter before they died, and then found out too late.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Amen......the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists version of salvation is like a vitamin supplement store where you embellish "yo" workouts with protein powder, vitamins b6, 3, 12 and a shot of oxishred just to get that extra boost over the finish line......not!
Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. Salvation is putting our faith (belief, trust, reliance) exclusively in what Jesus has done.
No , Salvation is NOT Jesus + anything
Its putting our Faith COMPLETELY in what Christ has done for us , without anything added , period !!
Triple Amen! decon, Mailmandan, and ljs, a supplemented Christ, "is no Christ at all."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Let me tell you where satan's victory will be sweet for him.

A person thinks they are saved, but they don't believe Jesus when he says you have to forgive, because they think it is some meaningless work that is somehow trumped by grace.

I believe you are a man who forgives readily, and so this is no problem. However, other 'good' Christians, thinking they are saved, and are not able to forgive easily, could have a problem with their walk with God.
No your wrong

What satans sweet victory will be when people who think because they forgave others, Went to church every sunday and wednesday, gave to the poor, God baptised in water and Obeyed Gods other commands, Maybe even cast out demons and spoke in toungues.

Only to get to heaven and scream to God how he did all those works in jesus name, And jesus will say depart from him, for he never knew them.

Because they rejected the ONLY thing which could save them, and thatr was the cross. They became fools who tried to start in the spirit, and perfect it in the flesh. Religious is satans greatest victory.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hi E-g question, who is this person who gnawed and chewed.

He asked DC if he was ready to do the work in John 59. Where jesus said we must eat his flesh and drink his blood to be saved. I think DC did that years ago, as I did.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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I have heard this phrase several times in the last few pages: Trust that God has forgiven you, then you will have power to forgive others.

Isn't that the reverse of Matthew 6:14-15? In this verse it says, If you forgive, then the Father will forgive. If you do not forgive, then my Father will not forgive you.

So what comes first? Does the Father forgive, and then we forgive, or as Jesus says, we forgive then the Father forgives?