Not By Works

[Seohce]

Hi Magenta, so you post a fancy hand held mirror (nice mirror), in response to Seohce post on being judgmental and what do you get in return; a wall of cut and paste "BIBLE VERSES WITH NO COMMENTARY" at all...what's that all about, is he just completely vain that he thinks he is the second coming of Christ or is that being to harsh, wow, so how is a person supposed to react to this kind of nonsense.

THE LORD SAID;


"He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."

"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."

AND IT IS WRITTEN;

"Do not go beyond what is written.”*

*FOR THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY and SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL."

"If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."

" For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."

"They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit."

 

[Katy-follower]

Eating meat wasn't permitted until after the Flood!

**content removed at poster's request**

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Haha, well it's not just you. I have been labeled both of those things, as well.

So, I totally get you.

I will write a small post and hear that's out of context.

I will write a long post and no one will comment. Lol.

I think at one point, I stopped trying to teach people and simply show up to share with those open and have a heart posture to learn myself.

When I get too "teachy" it's usually because I am offended or I'm trying to get someone to believe like me, instead of being convinced in their own heart, so I'll end up just leaving for a few months to get my heart right with God.

On the topic of works:

I do believe works are required, but not for salvation.

And I have noticed that often when people preach works, as their argument goes further they end up doing it because they want people to keep the Sabbath. Or they do it without actually labeling what a "good work" is.

The issue I have with simply saying we need "good works" is that a "good work" can become whatever the poster wants it to be.

Which is exactly what the Pharisees did. They even wrote their own little book on what "good works" looked like.

Amen, they not only did not understand what a work was. But they did not understand what sin was. They could obey the letter as written, but not the spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning decon, another point worthy of James ch2 is, you cannot build a "doctrine" from a "single verse", which is basically the same thing you are saying, the James ch 2 people are barking up the wrong tree...

James does not say what they think it does anyway, thy interpret it in a way to contradict paul, which should be their first clue.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's sad to see that the very debate going on in the Jerusalem council is still alive and well.
WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS IT IS A FREE GIFT!
BUT TO REMAIN IN SIN ONCE WE HAVE BEEN SET FREE OF IT IS TO CALL THE MESSIAH'S BLOOD A COMMON THING!

ALL FAITH HAS OBEDIENCE BEHIND IT, ABRAHAM BELIEVED YAHWEH AND GOT OUT OF UR - HE BELIEVED AND OBEYED
NOAH BELIEVED YAHWEH AND BUILT AND ARK - HE BELIEVED AND OBEYED

EVE BELIEVED THE SERPENT AND ATE - SHE BELIEVED AND OBEYED (the wrong voice)

MESSIAH SAID THE LAW AND PROPHETS WILL STAND TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY / THE DAY EVERYTHING WILL FINALLY BE FULFIILED. WILL YOU BELEIVE HIS VOICE AND OBEY?
IT DOES NOT GET MUCH SIMPLER THAN THIS.
THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN 2 VOICES
THE FATHER'S AND THE ADVESARY WHICH VOICE ARE YOU GOING TO OBEY?
THE WORD'S OF THE MESSIAH ARE WRITTEN IN RED CONCERNING THE LAW, DID HE LIE, DID HE NOT REALLY MEAN WHAT HE SAID, THESE ARE THE WORDS OF THE ENEMY SINCE THE BEGINNING.
EVEN IF WE SAY YEAH, BUT PAUL OVER HERE SEEMS TO SAY THIS.....CATCH YOURSELF! EITHER OUR UNDERSTANDING IS WRONG OR PAUL HIMSELF CALLS THE MESSIAH A LIAR.

DEUT. 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which YAHWEH hath not spoken? 22When a prophet speaketh in the name of YAHWEH, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which YAHWEH hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

THERE'S ONLY 3 SIDES HERE:

WHAT THE MESSIAH SAYS IS TRUE
WHAT PAUL SAYS THAT CONTADICTS WHAT THE MESSIAH SAYS IS TRUE.
OR WE ARE NOT FULLY UNDERSTANDING PAUL AND HE DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE MESSIAH.

2 PETER 3:10

But the day of the Master will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.11Therefore since all these things will be destroyed like this, what kind of people ought you to be in holy living and godliness, 12looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of Elohim, which will cause the burning heavens to be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14Therefore, beloved, seeing that you look for these things, be diligent to be found in peace, without blemish and blameless in his sight. 15Regard the patience of our Master as salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you; 16as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Yahushua The Messiah. To him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

What is the error of the wicked Peter is talking about in verse 17, look it up and see for yourselves.

I disagree, it is not a common thing, it is an impossible thing,

john tells us plainly a person who sins has never seen or known God. And this born og God can not remain in sin.

the problem is not that people remain in sin, the problem is the church teaching self righteousness, and being decieved, which does not give people power over sin. And leads others to believe they are om with God based on how good they are. .

 

[Studyman]

James does not say what they think it does anyway, thy interpret it in a way to contradict paul, which should be their first clue.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Matt. 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


I don't see James contradicting Paul or Jesus or anyone else in scriptures. He does, however, contradict "MANY" preachers who come in Christ's name.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you are talking about Seohce, I turned him off months ago, mainly because who wants to read a wall of cut and paste bible verses. But the main issue for me at least was he came across as an unhappy angry poster that hardly anyone agreed with.

I have not read anything he has posted in along time, i just skip over it. Nothing there

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Magenta, so you post a fancy hand held mirror (nice mirror), in response to Seohce post on being judgmental and what do you get in return; a wall of cut and past bible verses with no commentary at all...what's that all about, is he just completely vain that he thinks he is the second coming of Christ or is that being to harsh, wow, so how is a person supposed to react to this kind of nonsense.

Him and shamah must be from the same background.

Thats all they ever do

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Matt. 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


I don't see James contradicting Paul or Jesus or anyone else in scriptures. He does, however, contradict "MANY" preachers who come in Christ's name.

Paul siad to be doers of the word also, as you said. But that was not the passage i was speaking about, and you know that, so you are tryin to be deceptive, because you know i was talking about the faith plus works passage. You failed.

 

[Budman]

Do you think we already had the canine teeth in the beginning, or do you think God made this change with creation after the fall

This is my opinion only, but I think those changes came afterward - like thorns. But some animals today have canine teeth that don't eat meat like the gorilla. Also panda and koala bears.

 

[Studyman]

Paul siad to be doers of the word also, as you said. But that was not the passage i was speaking about, and you know that, so you are tryin to be deceptive, because you know i was talking about the faith plus works passage. You failed.

You said;

James does not say what they think it does anyway, thy interpret it in a way to contradict paul, which should be their first clue.

I don't believe James said anything that contradicts Paul as you preach. And I agree with Paul, as does James, when he teaches that no flesh is justified by the Jews version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sin. And yes, Paul does say we are to be "doers" of God's Laws, not hears only, just like every other Apostle and Prophet has said, including the Word which became Flesh Himself.

James doesn't contradict Paul, and Paul doesn't contradict Paul, and Jesus doesn't contradict Paul. I just wanted to assure you that I didn't think James was contradicting Paul as you implied.

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


I think James called it "the Law of Liberty" we are to be judged by. The "Law of Works" neither judges, nor justifies anyone. It was "ADDED" till the Seed should come.





28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (of Works, not the Law of Faith)

 

[VCO]

THE LORD SAID;


"He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."

"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."

AND IT IS WRITTEN;

"Do not go beyond what is written.”*

*FOR THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY and SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL."

"If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."

" For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."

"They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit."

<><.t.><>


Way to go, you kept it short enough, that we want to read it. The surest way to get US to ignore your posts is to make it LONGER, like you used to.

One more suggestion, is we want to see the BOOK, CHAPTER, and VERSE numbers with each quote, plus the Version Abbreviation. I have an easy way to insert that all with one quick copy/paste. AND THE LIBRARY IS A FREE DOWNLOAD, along with over 200 free books, that you can Choose from, including the Holman's Christian Standard Bible, which has quickly become my favorite English Bible and it was first published in 2004. Most of the books are Out of Copyright, older books, but there are many jewels to be found in them.

Here is the Site where you get your Free Version of the Software: https://www.wordsearchbible.com/ws-starter

You get 10 Free Books, PLUS over 200 from this other site: https://www.wordsearchbible.com/products/free


PLUS, they have Free VIDEO Tutorials under the HELP menu of the Library.


YES THEY ARE NOT GREEDY, but the still Copyrighted Books they have to charge for. BUT the HCSB has always been FREE. REMEMBER watch their SALES, on the opening Screen of the software, because they have frequent sales. I got most of the add on books that I wanted to buy for 1/2 price.

I will show you how convenient this tool really is. I will highlight ONE WORD in a Verse and IT WILL COPY/PASTE the entire passage, including BOOK, CHAPTER, and VERSE numbers, plus the Version abbreviation. I will only copy the word blessed:


Titus 2:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.


SEE, it is that EASY.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You said;



I don't believe James said anything that contradicts Paul as you preach. And I agree with Paul, as does James, when he teaches that no flesh is justified by the Jews version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sin. And yes, Paul does say we are to be "doers" of God's Laws, not hears only, just like every other Apostle and Prophet has said, including the Word which became Flesh Himself.

James doesn't contradict Paul, and Paul doesn't contradict Paul, and Jesus doesn't contradict Paul. I just wanted to assure you that I didn't think James was contradicting Paul as you implied.

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


I think James called it "the Law of Liberty" we are to be judged by. The "Law of Works" neither judges, nor justifies anyone. It was "ADDED" till the Seed should come.





28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (of Works, not the Law of Faith)

Keep trying,

YOU KNOW I am talking about James 2. The topic of faith plus works (or lack of) and faith being dead.

so either stick to the context of what I am saying, or go away. I do not like to play games.

Paul said that we are saved not by our works of righteousness, but by his mercy and those who are saved WILL DO WORKS. (A work is considered any work which produces fruit, or glorifies God, and can be works of faith of any type. not just works of the law. but works of the law of faith could be included)

James is saying, if you CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH, but do NOT HAVE the WORKS PAUL SAID ALL WHO HAVE FAITH WILL HAVE. Your faith is dead. and never has saved you. You may believe in Jesus, but you have no faith in him at all. if you did, you would have the works Paul said you would have.

 

[VCO]

Eating meat wasn't permitted until after the Flood!

Yeah, but HE knew we would eventually need canine teeth, besides I like Brasil nuts, and they sure come in handy to chew them.

Besides, look at all the problems of mankind, she would have avoided, if she had killed the snake, and roasted it.

 

[Studyman]

Keep trying,

YOU KNOW I am talking about James 2. The topic of faith plus works (or lack of) and faith being dead.

so either stick to the context of what I am saying, or go away. I do not like to play games.

Paul said that we are saved not by our works of righteousness, but by his mercy and those who are saved WILL DO WORKS. (A work is considered any work which produces fruit, or glorifies God, and can be works of faith of any type. not just works of the law. but works of the law of faith could be included)

James is saying, if you CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH, but do NOT HAVE the WORKS PAUL SAID ALL WHO HAVE FAITH WILL HAVE. Your faith is dead. and never has saved you. You may believe in Jesus, but you have no faith in him at all. if you did, you would have the works Paul said you would have.

Yes, like Paul said. No flesh is justified by the "Deeds" of the Levitical Priesthood which was "ADDED" until the Word which became Flesh should come.

But of the "law of faith" or as James calls it "The Law of Liberty" Paul and James say:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And again;

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

This is why I don't believe James contradicted Paul as you implied.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, like Paul said. No flesh is justified by the "Deeds" of the Levitical Priesthood which was "ADDED" until the Word which became Flesh should come.

But of the "law of faith" or as James calls it "The Law of Liberty" Paul and James say:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And again;

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

This is why I don't believe James contradicted Paul as you implied.

Paul said in Ephesians and titus that it is not by works, He NEVER SAID WORK OF The LAW. so if your trying to say paul only meant works of the law every time he said works would be false reasoning. not only this, God said through Moses in Gen that Abraham was saved because he believed, not because he did works. The law is not in context.

Paul in romans is talking to people tryign to add law to grace

James is talking to licentious people who BELIEVE, but HAVE NO FAITH, proven by the fact, they HAVE NO WORKS. (not that they had works at one time and now do not have works)

I agree with James, Be doers not just hearers. People who CLAIM to be saved, yet have NEVER DID EVEN 1 WORK. they are not saved period. (if they are hearers not doers. they TOO have never been saved)

But tp use James to say salvation can be LOST. is to take him out of context. and make him contradict paul

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”

[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[stonesoffire]

Am going through some unexpected difficulties now that I would never have imagined to happen. But, in these trials, I've found that works, the works that come from Holy Spirit within is coupled along with the fruit.

We must have all of God to truly walk in the Spirit and not in our own nature of flesh. It's daily choices of choosing the Way.

 

[stonesoffire]

God is our Father. We are in a new age with Jesus being Saviour of the world. This age of grace is nothing like the former age of law.

God does not discard us for failures for we are sometimes, more often than not, slow to understand. Yet babes and young children needing instruction from Holy Spirit.

The words if God be for us, who can be against us ring true as we learn that we are living out of the Kingdom now, though we be yet on this earth.

Jesus has positioned us in heavenly places now through connection of Spirit to Spirit! So we are overcomers...learning how to overcome enemies.

The mind of Christ! We must learn to think as He thought. Knowing who and what He is...and His purpose for coming. It's the same purpose we take up for our world of our neighbors, family and friends. To show the true nature of God and His Savuor Jesus Messiah to all around us. So they be drawn to the uplifted Cross!

This is our work...and our works.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."[/FONT]