Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#59,801
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#59,801
Shamah said:
I didnt see where you said yes it was or no it was not true.

Yes I ahve sinned and most likely will again. For this reason I am thankful for Yah mercy, however this is not a reson to ignore His commands.

John 5:14, “Afterward יהושע found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”


John 8:11, “And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”


1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Click to expand...
You absolutely cannot admit you break the law.....hilariously tragic....
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#59,802
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#59,802
dcontroversal said:
You absolutely cannot admit you break the law.....hilariously tragic....
Click to expand...
did you even read my post?

Shamah said:
I didnt see where you said yes it was or no it was not true.

Yes I ahve sinned and most likely will again. For this reason I am thankful for Yah mercy, however this is not a reson to ignore His commands.

John 5:14, “Afterward יהושע found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”


John 8:11, “And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”


1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Click to expand...
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 4:1-2, “Therefore, since Messiah suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so that he no longer lives the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but according to the desire of YHWH.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4-10, "Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Everyone staying in Him does not sin. Everyone sinning has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one lead you astray. The one doing righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. The one doing sin is of the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of YHWH was manifested: to destroy the works of the devil. Everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin, because His seed stays in him, and he is powerless to sin, because he has been born of YHWH. In this the children of YHWH and the children of the devil are manifest: Everyone not doing righteousness is not of YHWH, neither the one not loving his brother.”[/FONT]
 
L

ljs

Member
#59,803
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
#59,803
dcontroversal said:
And you believe this means that those who keep the law as opposed to those who do not keep the law right? FALSE>..the law condemns all and NO ONE keeps it...

Therefore we conclude a man is justified BY FAITH without the WORKS/DEEDS OF THE LAW.....

Those who have exercised faith into Christ have worked righteousness....those who have trusted self and works over Christ have worked iniquity...see what JESUS states about the MANY that BOAST of what they have done in his name....

a. HE NEVER knew them
b. THEY worked iniquity

See how easy it is to dig through the theological MUD you guys embrace to find the truth

He that believes on the SON is NOT CONDEMNED, why? OUR SINS have been nailed to HIS cross and HIS righteousness without the LAW imputed to our account!
Click to expand...
Amen brother !!!!
 
B

benhur

Senior Member
#59,804
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
#59,804
TruthTalk said:
You will not believe because you are still trying to, "Save Yourself" Impossible, think about that.

Luke16:30,31
30) No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31) “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Maybe you’ve heard it said that text taken out of context makes it a pretext and usually a false one at that. This is true. That’s how cults are started. When we take text out of their context we are stripping the meaning of the verses and give them a different, and usually a wrong meaning. Far too many people try and find one Bible verse and come up with a doctrine but that’s not the way to read the Bible. When we want to take out or interpret Scripture properly, we need to read the entire paragraph, the entire chapter, and sometimes the entire book. To take one verse and use it to build a belief system is highly fraught with error. The result is that Bible verses are taken out of context and misapplied.

Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...ses-often-taken-out-of-context/#ixzz5BR1tefe4
Click to expand...
You mean like Ephesians 2:8-9? Do you take that scripture out of context? Do you interpret it rightly?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#59,805
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#59,805
Shamah said:
did you even read my post?



1 Peter 4:1-2, “Therefore, since Messiah suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so that he no longer lives the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but according to the desire of YHWH.”


1 John 3:4-10, "Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Everyone staying in Him does not sin. Everyone sinning has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one lead you astray. The one doing righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. The one doing sin is of the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of YHWH was manifested: to destroy the works of the devil. Everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin, because His seed stays in him, and he is powerless to sin, because he has been born of YHWH. In this the children of YHWH and the children of the devil are manifest: Everyone not doing righteousness is not of YHWH, neither the one not loving his brother.”
Click to expand...
Like I said....you tap dance all around without actually saying that you break the law........

YES or NO.....Do you KEEP the LAW?
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#59,806
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#59,806
dcontroversal said:
Like I said....you tap dance all around without actually saying that you break the law........

YES or NO.....Do you KEEP the LAW?
Click to expand...
I stated it clearly. and you ask me this over and over.

Shamah said:
I didnt see where you said yes it was or no it was not true.

Yes I ahve sinned and most likely will again. For this reason I am thankful for Yah mercy, however this is not a reson to ignore His commands.

John 5:14, “Afterward יהושע found him in the Set-apart Place, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse matter befalls you.”


John 8:11, “And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”


1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Click to expand...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#59,808
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#59,808
Shamah said:
I stated it clearly. and you ask me this over and over.
Click to expand...
I did not ask if you sinned.....I asked if you keep the law....simple YES or NO.....

Here is how you answer...

YES I keep the LAW
or
NO i do not keep the LAW

Which is it?
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#59,810
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#59,810
dcontroversal said:
I did not ask if you sinned.....I asked if you keep the law....simple YES or NO.....

Here is how you answer...

YES I keep the LAW
or
NO i do not keep the LAW

Which is it?
Click to expand...
It is amazing how so many miss the Gospel and embrace legalism.
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#59,812
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#59,812
dcontroversal said:
I did not ask if you sinned.....I asked if you keep the law....simple YES or NO.....

Here is how you answer...

YES I keep the LAW
or
NO i do not keep the LAW

Which is it?
Click to expand...
No I don;t have to word my answer the way you choose. Also you seem to ask me this question about once a month... I give the same answer everytime.

sin is transgression of the Law.

I do not keep the Law of YHWH perfectly. Yes I do at times sin. I have also gone for long periods where I did not sin, focusing and guided by YHWH. I also have gotten off the path an sinned. However I prefer to follow Yah the way He says.

Anyone who says they do not sin is lying. Because someone does sin it is not a reason to ignore or reject His commands.

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
 
Shamah

Shamah

Senior Member
#59,814
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#59,814
preacher4truth said:
It is amazing how so many miss the Gospel and embrace legalism.
Click to expand...
would you consider this legalism?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#59,815
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#59,815
TruthTalk said:
You will not believe because you are still trying to, "Save Yourself" Impossible, think about that.

Luke16:30,31
30) No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31) “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Maybe you’ve heard it said that text taken out of context makes it a pretext and usually a false one at that. This is true. That’s how cults are started. When we take text out of their context we are stripping the meaning of the verses and give them a different, and usually a wrong meaning. Far too many people try and find one Bible verse and come up with a doctrine but that’s not the way to read the Bible. When we want to take out or interpret Scripture properly, we need to read the entire paragraph, the entire chapter, and sometimes the entire book. To take one verse and use it to build a belief system is highly fraught with error. The result is that Bible verses are taken out of context and misapplied.

Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...ses-often-taken-out-of-context/#ixzz5BR1tefe4
Click to expand...
Amazing!! I keep saying the same thing. More than once someone posted a single verse and putting it in context changes the understanding of it. In one case the very next verse refuted what the person was claiming.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#59,816
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#59,816
Stupid 5 minute rule. Most sites use 15 minutes.

Also other sections of scripture give a more complete understanding of the issue. I use Google and that seems to work OK. Also I use a systematic theology book that lists every verse on the topic. The one I use is Berkhofs Systematic Theology.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#59,817
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#59,817
Shamah said:
would you consider this legalism?

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
Click to expand...
Legalists ignore what Paul said about his fighting the law of sin living in in him. We all have this problem.

Romans 7 NIV
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
 
Last edited:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#59,818
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#59,818
Shamah said:
No I don;t have to word my answer the way you choose. Also you seem to ask me this question about once a month... I give the same answer everytime.

sin is transgression of the Law.

I do not keep the Law of YHWH perfectly. Yes I do at times sin. I have also gone for long periods where I did not sin, focusing and guided by YHWH. I also have gotten off the path an sinned. However I prefer to follow Yah the way He says.

Anyone who says they do not sin is lying. Because someone does sin it is not a reason to ignore or reject His commands.

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Click to expand...
There ya have it folks.....one who constantly pushes the law, refuses to say that he breaks the law, but tap dances around it by saying he HAS SINNED PAST TENSE and in all probability will again...


WHY can't you say YOU BREAK THE LAW....?

I will tell you why...because it will destroy your incessant law pushing drivel......that is exactly WHY....
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#59,819
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#59,819
Shamah said:
would you consider this legalism?

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”


Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”
Click to expand...
No, because it is not speaking of reverting to the OT Law, or adding it to the Gospel as legalists would do. :D
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#59,820
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#59,820
You must log in or register to reply here.