KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

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John146

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trofimus said:
We, Christians, got our knowledge from Christ. He taught His apostles and apostles founded first churches with the help of the Holy Spirit and various gifts.

Scripture was used for proving that Jesus is the promised Christ and for various discussions about Law.
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Sorry, not I. I got all I know about Christ from the Scriptures. Either through reading and studying the Scriptures myself, or from teachers and pastors guiding teaching me through the Scriptures.

Can you explain further where you're coming from? Without the word of God, how would you know about Jesus Christ?
 
trofimus

trofimus

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John146 said:
Sorry, not I. I got all I know about Christ from the Scriptures. Either through reading and studying the Scriptures myself, or from teachers and pastors guiding teaching me through the Scriptures.

Can you explain further where you're coming from? Without the word of God, how would you know about Jesus Christ?
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Just imagine the first church. Apostles were going to gentiles (no, they did not have 1000 pages of OT with them, it was too expensive).

I, personally, heard about Christ for the first time from some Australian misisonary when I was 8, I think. Or maybe before from some child Bible (not something you would consider to be a word of God).
 
Dino246

Dino246

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KJV1611 said:
Joram and Jehoram are the same name and used interchangeably. Ahaziah was also called Azariah and Jehohoahz. He is also known as Uzziah in the new testament.
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Joram/Jehoram I see, and Azariah/Uzziah I see, but Ahaziah/Azariah/Jehoahaz I don't see. Please provide Scripture to back up your assertion.
 
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Terrie431

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John146 said:
Sorry, not I. I got all I know about Christ from the Scriptures. Either through reading and studying the Scriptures myself, or from teachers and pastors guiding teaching me through the Scriptures.

Can you explain further where you're coming from? Without the word of God, how would you know about Jesus Christ?
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Hi John,

The Bible - the physical book - is God's written revelation of Himself to us. He graciously imparted His Knowledge, His Wisdom, & His Understanding to mankind through first, His Spoken Word; and secondly, through His Written Word.

Jesus Christ is The Word, from the beginning, Who became flesh; & for by and Whom and through everything was made. Any wisdom, knowledge, or understanding one gains from reading the Bible (or Scriptures), or from the teaching and preaching thereof, is directly from God. They are not separate. They are One and the Same - Jesus.

The Bible; or, rather, God, tells us that man is without excuse. People come to know Jesus in various ways; not just through reading the Bible.

I hope this helps and I apologize to both you and trofimus for interfering, if either of you have found my reply bothersome. :(.

Thanks!
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Terrie431 said:
Hi John,

The Bible - the physical book - is God's written revelation of Himself to us. He graciously imparted His Knowledge, His Wisdom, & His Understanding to mankind through first, His Spoken Word; and secondly, through His Written Word.

Jesus Christ is The Word, from the beginning, Who became flesh; & for by and Whom and through everything was made. Any wisdom, knowledge, or understanding one gains from reading the Bible (or Scriptures), or from the teaching and preaching thereof, is directly from God. They are not separate. They are One and the Same - Jesus.

The Bible; or, rather, God, tells us that man is without excuse. People come to know Jesus in various ways; not just through reading the Bible.

I hope this helps and I apologize to both you and trofimus for interfering, if either of you have found my reply bothersome. :(.

Thanks!
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You can join our conversation whenever you want :)

What do you mean by Spoken Word (with capital S and W)?
 
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Terrie431

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trofimus said:
You can join our conversation whenever you want :)

What do you mean by Spoken Word (with capital S and W)?
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Thank you, trofimus. :)

I use capitals when referring to God out of differentiation of Him to everything and everyone else; &, I hope, to show Him honor and respect (no capitals here because the honor and respect come from me.) In contrast, if I were to refer to His Justice, Righteousness, Etc., they are in capitals because they belong to Him. :)
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Terrie431 said:
Thank you, trofimus. :)

I use capitals when referring to God out of differentiation of Him to everything and everyone else; &, I hope, to show Him honor and respect (no capitals here because the honor and respect come from me.) In contrast, if I were to refer to His Justice, Righteousness, Etc., they are in capitals because they belong to Him. :)
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So, Spoken Word is something prophetic, carried by prophets?

Or everything that one can say naturally about God?
 
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Terrie431

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trofimus said:
So, Spoken Word is something prophetic, carried by prophets?

Or everything that one can say naturally about God?
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Personally, I believe it can be both. The Spoken Word was given to the prophets, etc., before they were written down. Needless to say, those were prophetic and were God's Spoken Word.

Not everything we say today about God is His Spoken Word because what we say can simply be an opinion, speculation, or involve our emotions; for me, anyway, it can be that way. However, if we are speaking the Blessed Gospel, any Revelation we receive from Him; or any Scriptures to someone, I firmly believe those words are from God and may be considered His Spoken Word. God speaking through us, in other words.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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trofimus said:
Scriptures are sufficient for salvation.

But Scriptures do not contain all knowledge of the Universe.
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I agree with this completely, and I also recognize the danger in stating it without a significant caveat: the Bible is the only source of fundamental and reliable truth about God and the plan of salvation (this could be worded differently...).
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Dino246 said:
I agree with this completely, and I also recognize the danger in stating it without a significant caveat: the Bible is the only source of fundamental and reliable truth about God and the plan of salvation (this could be worded differently...).
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What do you mean by "only"?

Why, for example, is not the apostolic creed fundamental and reliable?
 
Dino246

Dino246

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trofimus said:
What do you mean by "only"?

Why, for example, is not the apostolic creed fundamental and reliable?
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The Apostles' Creed is not "fundamental" because it is in turn based on the foundation of Scripture.

I used both adjectives with "and" quite intentionally. :)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Dino246 said:
Joram/Jehoram I see, and Azariah/Uzziah I see, but Ahaziah/Azariah/Jehoahaz I don't see. Please provide Scripture to back up your assertion.
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In 2 Chronicles 21:17 we are told that Jehoram had only one son left, his youngest son, and his name is given as Jehoahaz.

In 2 Chronicles 22:1 we are told that Ahaziah was his youngest son.

In 2 Chronicles 22:6 we are told that Azariah the son of Jehoram king of Judah went down to see Jehoram the son of Ahab at Jezreel, because he was sick.
 
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KJV1611

KJV1611

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Dino246 said:
Actually, they don't match. Matthew doesn't mention Ahaziah at all; he is the first of three generations that Matthew does not list. Matthew has Uzziah (Azariah) as the son of Joram (Jehoram). The others list Jehoram, Ahaziah (yes, that one), Joash, Amaziah, and then Uzziah.

Still only one Ahaziah (in Judah), and another contradiction.
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Do you really not understand that Joram is Jehoram or that Ozias is Ahaziah?

[h=1]Matthew 1:8 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;[/FONT]
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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John146 said:
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear(hear what...the word of God) without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach(preach what...the word of God), except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

How are people going to call upon the name of the Lord without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ as found in the Scriptures? We are called to preach to them the gospel from the word of God. Yes, this can be done by memory or straight from the bible.
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Nice.......
 
J

Joseppi

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trofimus said:
Just imagine the first church. Apostles were going to gentiles (no, they did not have 1000 pages of OT with them, it was too expensive).

I, personally, heard about Christ for the first time from some Australian misisonary when I was 8, I think. Or maybe before from some child Bible (not something you would consider to be a word of God).
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Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

These are scriptures Peter full of the Holy Ghost quoted on Pentecost when the church grew rapidly.
And his comments were all helps in understanding scripture.

Scripture is that which all saints need to study, use and agree with.
One reason God chose Abraham unto the nation of Israel was to establish his written word and to provide all mankind the oracles of God.
The Lord desires to write his word in our hearts.
So the written word of God is eternal and indispensable to the Christian.
 
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Dino246

Dino246

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KJV1611 said:
In 2 Chronicles 21:17 we are told that Jehoram had only one son left, his youngest son, and his name is given as Jehoahaz.

In 2 Chronicles 22:1 we are told that Ahaziah was his youngest son.

In 2 Chronicles 22:6 we are told that Azariah the son of Jehoram king of Judah went down to see Jehoram the son of Ahab at Jezreel, because he was sick.
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Ahh... yes. I see that now, thanks. It's in the notes, which I had not looked at closely enough. I still wonder why Matthew omits three generations, but I'll keep looking.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Dino246 said:
Ahh... yes. I see that now, thanks. It's in the notes, which I had not looked at closely enough. I still wonder why Matthew omits three generations, but I'll keep looking.
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What are you thoughts on the verse below, who is this Azariah son of Jehoram?

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"][h=1]2 Chronicles 23 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]23 And in the seventh year Jehoiada strengthened himself, and took the captains of hundreds, Azariah the son of Jeroham, and Ishmael the son of Jehohanan, and Azariah the son of Obed, and Maaseiah the son of Adaiah, and Elishaphat the son of Zichri, into covenant with him.[/FONT]




[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Dino246

Dino246

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KJV1611 said:
Do you really not understand that Joram is Jehoram or that Ozias is Ahaziah?

Matthew 1:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
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Josaphat (Matthew) = Jehoshapat (Kings, Chronicles)
Joram (Matthew) = Jehoram (Kings, Chronicles).

So far no problem; I knew these ones already. Now...

According to Matthew 1:

Josaphat, Joram, Ozias, Joatham, Achaz, Ezekias

According to 1 Chronicles 3:10-14

Jehoshaphat, Joram, Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah

According to Kings:
Jehoshaphat (1 Kings 22:50)
Jehoram (2 Kings 8:16)
Ahaziah (8:25)
Joash (11:2 and 21; 13:1; 14:1) aka Jehoash (11:21 and 12:1, 6, 7, 18)
Amaziah (14:1)
Azariah (15:1; 52 yrs) aka Uzziah (15:13 and 34), aka Uzzah (15:32)
Jotham (15:32)
Ahaz (16:1)
Hezekiah (18:1)

According to 2 Chronicles:
Jehoshaphat (17:1)
Jehoram (21:1)
Jehoahaz (21:17 and 25:23, 25) aka Ahaziah (22:1, 7, 8, 9, 10) aka Azariah (22:6)
Joash (22:11)
Amaziah (24:27)
Uzziah (26:1)
Jotham (26:23)
Ahaz (27:9)
Hezekiah (28:27)

So, while Ozias of Matthew is consistent with Azariah/Uzziah/Uzza of 2 Kings and Uzziah of 2 Chronicles, it still can't be the same person as Ahaziah/Azariah/Jehoahaz of 2 Chronicles because Uzziah is three generations later.

Further, there is an "Azariah son of Jehoram" listed in 2 Chronicles 23:1, allowing the possibility that the Azariah of 22:6 is not Ahaziah, as Ahaziah was slain in 22:9.

There still is only one Ahaziah, king of Judah. There is still a contradiction (actually, several) in the KJV.
 
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