Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

joefizz

Guest
The scripture you refer to is:
John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

You will notice that this scripture does not say "if you are born again you will be given eternal life automatically".

Jesus only says that if you are not born again you will not see the KOG. There is an obvious implication that if you are born again you will see the KOG. But now we have to argue with each other about:
1) what does it mean to be born again?
2) what is being born of the water?
3) what is being born of the spirit?
4) does it take someone with some authority to born you again?
5) is being born again the only requirement to be given eternal life? It is said that all you have to do is believe?

So do you see the dilemma with your simple statement of born again =eternal life?
There is no dilemma you need only "believe".
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
The scripture you refer to is:
John 3:3
3 [FONT=&quot]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[/FONT]
You will notice that this scripture does not say "if you are born again you will be given eternal life automatically".

Jesus only says that if you are not born again you will not see the KOG. There is an obvious implication that if you are born again you will see the KOG. But now we have to argue with each other about:
1) what does it mean to be born again?
2) what is being born of the water?
3) what is being born of the spirit?
4) does it take someone with some authority to born you again?
5) is being born again the only requirement to be given eternal life? It is said that all you have to do is believe?

So do you see the dilemma with your simple statement of born again =eternal life?
1) born again means born of the spirit
2) born of water means born of the flesh
3) being made new.... God quickening your spirit (making it alive
4) it takes God
5) the requirement for being saved is Gods grace.... the rest is a product of (faith.... being born again... being kept by His power unto salvation)



bump for context of being born of flesh/water
spirit/Spirit



not true


3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(use birth as an earthly example to help the lost Nicodemus who believed in works and didnt understand spiritual things to explain something spiritual to him)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

(again Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly reasoning to question Jesus)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(again further explaining the two births.... flesh = water Spirit = God)


7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
1) born again means born of the spirit
2) born of water means born of the flesh
3) being made new.... God quickening your spirit (making it alive
4) it takes God
5) the requirement for being saved is Gods grace.... the rest is a product of (faith.... being born again... being kept by His power unto salvation)



bump for context of being born of flesh/water
spirit/Spirit
Amen brother.....keep swinging.....ching, ching, clang, parry, thrust, ching ching ching
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
Amen and regardless of the particular application of 1st Corinthian 3.....every man's work will be tried and rewarded accordingly....SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE are not in question and not jeopardy ....once a son by birth (faith alone) always a son by birth...eternal and everlasting mean exactly that.....not temporary!
I posted the verses a few posts ago.

Works will be tested.

Yet we will be saved, not by our works but by faith.

If our hearts desire is to build on the foundation of Jesus to help people become like Jesus then that is what he judges us on.

The foundation is faith, the focus is faith out of which works will follow.

If we add to it, then it's burned up, yet we will be saved
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Thanks for taking such good care of decon. I don't mean to irritate you, but what you have done could actually be called a 'good work'.
You do not irritate me, and the notice I posted this morning was for the benefit of everyone. And your comment about "taking care", was uncalled for, but that is just your judgmental personality in full view.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Amen......same thing Jesus said....He that believes is having everlasting life... <--The simplicity found in Christ!
Yes I once thought that abiding by the commandments as a code would lead me to do right for God but it only gave morals to live by it didn't teach "belief" that would lead to Salvation,if anything it showed me that I was a hypocrite for I sought to do right for God yet I didn't know God nor his son Jesus,and so I delayed and delayed my decision to serve God or satan and the more I delayed the more I realized that the choice was "being made" as I went.
You cannot live life being on "the fence" either you live in unbelief thinking you can serve God/Jesus without knowing him or you "humble yourself" to him and finally truly "Believe" no more excuses,no more doubting,no more hardening your own heart,"Genuine faith" is established from this.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,719
4,080
113
62
Hi all...Another little beauty I came across while reading 1 John...For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith...

See that word FAITH , it is a gift from God , and it all comes from Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--\:)/...

Praise the LORD , thank You Jesus...xox...
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
I posted the verses a few posts ago.

Works will be tested.

Yet we will be saved, not by our works but by faith.

If our hearts desire is to build on the foundation of Jesus to help people become like Jesus then that is what he judges us on.

The foundation is faith, the focus is faith out of which works will follow.

If we add to it, then it's burned up, yet we will be saved

Hi Bill

We wont be judged on whether our hearts desire is to become like Jesus
We will be judged on whether we received Jesus's righteousness or not
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,884
4,334
113
Hi Bill

We wont be judged on whether our hearts desire is to become like Jesus
We will be judged on whether we received Jesus's righteousness or not
And the reality is that it's flipping hard to accept.

Why is it easier for some and but not others.

It seems to me the world says "There is no such thing as a free lunch" (that's what we say over here)

But what does God say

Isaiah 55:1-3
Chapter 55
An Invitation to Abundant Life
1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
Just because you are born again, it does not mean you are born again unto automatic eternal life.

<><.t.><>


WHAT PART OF ETERNAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ? ?



John 10:25-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] “I did tell you and you don’t believe,” Jesus answered them.“The works that I do in My Father’s name testify about Me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] The Father and I are one.”


WHAT PART OF they will never perish—ever, DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ? ?


Philippians 1:6 (NCV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] God began doing a good work in you,
and I am sure he will continue it until it is finished
when Jesus Christ comes again
.


WHAT PART OF he will continue it until it is finished
when Jesus Christ comes again
,
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ? ?



TIME FOR YOU TO MAKE A DECISION, DO YOU TRUST IN THE FINISHED WORK OF JESUS ? ? ?

OR DO YOU TRUST IN THE FALSE DOCTRINE YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ? ? ?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Aah are you saying water baptism saves?

Yes or no will suffice.
My answer is both yes and no.

Yes, because Jesus showed us the example and was baptized by water by another human being.

No, because if you do not the things Jesus told us to do your water baptism becomes useless, and cannot save.
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
My answer is both yes and no.

Yes, because Jesus showed us the example and was baptized by water by another human being.

No, because if you do not the things Jesus told us to do your water baptism becomes useless, and cannot save.
Do you not realize yet , that our doing anything does not save us ??
Only putting our trust and faith in the one Jesus Christ who imputes HIS Righteousness to us by Faith saves us !
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
1John 2:3-11 We know that we have come to know him if we OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but DOES NOT DO what he commands IS A LIAR, and the truth is not in him. But IF ANYONE OBEYS HIS WORD, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and you, because the darkness is passing and THE TRUE LIGHT IS ALREADY SHINING. Anyone who CLAIMS to be in the light BUT hates his brother is STILL IN THE DARKNESS. Whoever loves his brother LIVES in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and WALKS AROUND IN THE DARKNESS; he does not know where he is going, because THE DARKNESS HAS BLINDED HIM.

Isaiah 59:9-10 So justice is far from us, and righteousness does not reach us. We look for light, but all is darkness; for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows. LIKE THE BLIND WE GROPE ALONG THE WALL FEELING OUR WAY LIKE MEN WITHOUT EYES. At midday we stumble as if it were twilight; among the strong, WE ARE LIKE THE DEAD..

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, SO FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.


John 3:19-21 THIS IS THE VERDICT: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be EXPOSED. But whoever LIVES BY THE TRUTH comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what HE HAS DONE has been done through God.”

John 8:42-47 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, YOU WOULD LOVE ME, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because YOU ARE UNABLE TO HEAR WHAT I SAY. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, NOT HOLDING TO THE TRUTH, for there is NO TRUTH IN HIM. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you PROVE me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, you will obey what I command.

Matthew 5:16 In the same way, LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE before men, that they may see your good deeds and PRAISE YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
<><.t.><>


WHAT PART OF ETERNAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ? ?



John 10:25-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] “I did tell you and you don’t believe,” Jesus answered them.“The works that I do in My Father’s name testify about Me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] The Father and I are one.”


WHAT PART OF they will never perish—ever, DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ? ?


Philippians 1:6 (NCV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] God began doing a good work in you,
and I am sure he will continue it until it is finished
when Jesus Christ comes again
.


WHAT PART OF he will continue it until it is finished
when Jesus Christ comes again
,
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ? ?



TIME FOR YOU TO MAKE A DECISION, DO YOU TRUST IN THE FINISHED WORK OF JESUS ? ? ?

OR DO YOU TRUST IN THE FALSE DOCTRINE YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ? ? ?
Jesus says this: [SUP] [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!

and then Jesus says this: [FONT=&quot]But if ye [/FONT]forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (IOW no forgiveness of sins, no KOG)

Which one of these saying do we believe?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
A WORTHY SERVANT

“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"

Matthew 10:37-39 “Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who DOES NOT take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.

Philippians 1:27-28 Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.

Colossians 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,

Thessalonians 2:12 encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

Thessalonians 1:5-6,8,11 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you HE WILL PUNISH those who do not know God and DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you WORTHY OF HIS CALLING, and that by HIS POWER he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.

Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Revelation 3:4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY.

ARE YOU “WORTHY” OF SALVATION BY CLAIMING TO HAVE A FAITH “ALONE”? ONE THAT IS VOID OF WORKS OR WHICH IS A “DEAD FAITH” ACCDG. TO JAMES.

Matthew 25:20-21,24-30 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you ENTRUSTED me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ “

Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘YOU WICKED, LAZY SERVANT! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. “‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that WORTHLESS SERVANT outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Philippians 1:27-30 Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
<><.t.><>

WHAT PART OF ETERNAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ? ? ?

TIME FOR YOU TO MAKE A DECISION, "DO YOU TRUST IN THE FINISHED WORK OF JESUS" ? ? ?

OR DO YOU TRUST IN THE FALSE DOCTRINE YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ? ? ?
No other way, "the finished work of Jesus"

John19:30
"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished",: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Jesus says this: [SUP] [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!

and then Jesus says this: [FONT=&quot]But if ye [/FONT]forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (IOW no forgiveness of sins, no KOG)

Which one of these saying do we believe?
they both are true

the first is pointing to believers

the second is pointing to those who will be judged by their own righteousness and not His
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Do you not realize yet , that our doing anything does not save us ??
Only putting our trust and faith in the one Jesus Christ who imputes HIS Righteousness to us by Faith saves us !
If Jesus tells me to be baptized, I am going to get baptized. If you think that he doesn't really mean it, then think what you will, but I take all the words of Jesus seriously, not just those that fit my individual salvation theology.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
I have said at least 500 times in this thread that the law condemns ALL AS GUILTY.......it is our schoolmaster, it points us to the only cure....the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith WITHOUT the deeds/works of the law.....
Here it is again....

Romans 3:19-26:

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus"