Anne Frank In Hell
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What I love about johns encouragement is the fact he says it is this knowledge we have etenal life, ths security in christ, that gives us the ability to continue to believe in his name.
Which is prety much proven by the fact those who do not believe in security are the ones claiming we can fall away and stop believeing. Which makes sense, because their faith is in their ability to continue to believe, not in the one who saved them
You are making the classic OSAS mistake. You are defending a concept that is not in question.
The issue of whether or not Christians are granted salvation is not in debate, The issue of whether or not Christians can feel assured of salvation is also not up for debate. The weak and dangerous link in unquestionable assurance is simply the assumption that we cannot be wrong about our quality of belief.
John's letter was read to the church as a whole, to assume that everyone hearing the message was being told that their salvation was guaranteed would be foolish. John was making a true but general statement that the Christians were guaranteed salvation not that all who claimed to be Christian were guaranteed salvation.
Salvation is assured to Christians not to those who sincerely believe they are Christians.
Mormons misuse the same verses as you, they too believe the "you" applies to them individually. Where the potential for false assurance exist, true assurance cannot.
The issue of whether or not Christians are granted salvation is not in debate, The issue of whether or not Christians can feel assured of salvation is also not up for debate. The weak and dangerous link in unquestionable assurance is simply the assumption that we cannot be wrong about our quality of belief.
John's letter was read to the church as a whole, to assume that everyone hearing the message was being told that their salvation was guaranteed would be foolish. John was making a true but general statement that the Christians were guaranteed salvation not that all who claimed to be Christian were guaranteed salvation.
Salvation is assured to Christians not to those who sincerely believe they are Christians.
Mormons misuse the same verses as you, they too believe the "you" applies to them individually. Where the potential for false assurance exist, true assurance cannot.
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What type of doublespeak is this? You say salvation is assured for the Christian, then proceed to sow doubt into the hearts of the true (Christians). Are you doing the devil's work, or will you, like John, give assurance to the brethren? True assurance can be had, or do you not fellowship with God? What do you proclaim, is it Christ and Him crucified?
The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance, for the Spirit does bear witness within us.
Romans 8:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance, for the Spirit does bear witness within us.
Romans 8:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
My words are straight forward and clear, there is no doublespeak.
I most certainly do.
The truth cuts the heart (Hebrews 4:12) it does not sow doubt in it.
I can ask you the same question. Are you doing the devil's work or will you, like Paul, give warning to the brethren to watch and stand fast in the faith, be brave and strong. No one goes to hell because they were too watchful. We are to run the race, or do you not fellowship with God? What do you proclaim, is it Christ that takes away the lampstands of the body?
The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance but it certainly does nullify our ability to individually know who possesses the assurance.
Projecting yourself individually into a promise does not prove you are the recipient to the promise. This is the part you do not seem to grasp.
The just live by faith not personal assurance.
I most certainly do.
The truth cuts the heart (Hebrews 4:12) it does not sow doubt in it.
I can ask you the same question. Are you doing the devil's work or will you, like Paul, give warning to the brethren to watch and stand fast in the faith, be brave and strong. No one goes to hell because they were too watchful. We are to run the race, or do you not fellowship with God? What do you proclaim, is it Christ that takes away the lampstands of the body?
The existence of false assurance does not nullify true assurance but it certainly does nullify our ability to individually know who possesses the assurance.
Projecting yourself individually into a promise does not prove you are the recipient to the promise. This is the part you do not seem to grasp.
The just live by faith not personal assurance.
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It might just be me but I don't think we really have the right to try and determine anyone's fate of heaven or hell. God only knows the heart and what goes on in the inside of a person whether they are close to Him or not. I guess I just don't feel like it is my job to determine the outcome of a person.
It is my job to love them as Christ loves us and to try and help them give their hearts to God and accept Jesus as their Savior, but God's job to know where we all end up...
It is my job to love them as Christ loves us and to try and help them give their hearts to God and accept Jesus as their Savior, but God's job to know where we all end up...
I'm not sure I'm right, but I tend to understand THIS passage to mean what you say. That we shouldn't speculate if someone who died is saved or not:
ROMANS 6:
[FONT="]6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).[/FONT]
ROMANS 6:
[FONT="]6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).[/FONT]
Great verse. This cuts to the core on the claims of personal individual assurance. How can we judge ourselves or others on the issue of individual eternal assurance? This is the job of the Master not us.
I believe many will be shocked when they realize that their assurance was not as assured as they thought.
I believe many will be shocked when they realize that their assurance was not as assured as they thought.
This verse is actually teaching the opposite, please note it says the Lord is ABLE to make Him stand. So once again this is assurance of being upheld. Not fear of believing you are upheld.
A verse that you could use, would be take heed lest you fall, that would link up better. But even that Scripture is talking more about relationship not positional righteousness.
A verse that you could use, would be take heed lest you fall, that would link up better. But even that Scripture is talking more about relationship not positional righteousness.
Anyone making a judgement on the servant of another Master is being called out in this verse, that includes ourselves. For someone to proclaim that they know their eternal fate is a judgement left not to them but God. They are simply projecting themselves into the pronouns without cause or warrant. Something that many groups do.
I put in my application but he didn't like the beard. You know I am only joking with you Tourist (my previous post). I do wonder though, are you saying that God changed the time line of events because of your prayer retroactively, or are you saying because He knew you would make that prayer (before creating the universe) for their soul they before dying accepted Christ (on the basis of that prayer in accordance with His will)?