"Not by works" - false!

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Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#621
May 23, 2016
4,284
1,418
113
#621
eternally-gratefull said:
Wh

what sins are not covered?
Click to expand...
I think the original reference here is to Hebrews 10:26:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins"

So in the context of this verse: the one ongoingly keeping on sinning - those sins are not covered by any sacrifice - OT or NT sacrifice
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#622
Apr 7, 2014
25,125
13,138
113
58
#622
DBurrage said:
It is our duty to keep God's commandments:

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind".

I'm saying we need to do it because that's what God has told us to do.
Click to expand...
If we are a Christian is it "must or else" or "will" keep (Greek word - tereo) guard, observe, watch over His commandments? (1 John 2:3-4). So what do you believe it means to "keep" His commandments and do you believe that Christians "keep" His commandments BECAUSE they are saved or in order to become or remain saved?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#623
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#623
DBurrage said:
Yes, but we're talking about when a Christian habitually wilfully sins.
Hebrews 10:26 tells us that no sacrifice will cover those sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins"


As an aside, I don't know why I've come under so much flak simply for saying that Christians should keep God's commandments:

John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments"

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind".
Click to expand...
You must remember that God is a spirit and he sees us in our spirit too.

When you are saved, your spirit is reborn into one just like Christ. God himself put the spirit of Christ in you. As far as God is concerned, you are justified, meaning as if you have never sinned.

Jesus did no sin, knew no sin, and in him there is no sin. That is who you are now too, in the eyes of God.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#624
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#624
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#625
#625
Chester said:
I think the original reference here is to Hebrews 10:26:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins"

So in the context of this verse: the one ongoingly keeping on sinning - those sins are not covered by any sacrifice - OT or NT sacrifice
Click to expand...
Yes, that is his reasoning But as he has been shown it is wrong and the context is the law..

In Fact. John says that for a child of God to do this is impossible (He who sins has never seen or known God, whoever is born of God can not sin because they have been born of God)

Thats what happens when people get stuck on one passage and can not see the rest of scripture.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#626
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#626
mailmandan said:
If we are a Christian is it "must or else" or "will" keep (Greek word - tereo) guard, observe, watch over His commandments? (1 John 2:3-4). So what do you believe it means to "keep" His commandments and do you believe that Christians "keep" His commandments BECAUSE they are saved or in order to become or remain saved?
Click to expand...
I think the title of the thread has thrown people off, but here's what I believe:

We are reconciled with God through belief in our Lord Jesus Christ, and through him only.

We are told to
1. Have faith in Jesus, AND
2. Do our best to stop sinning and rebelling against God

It has already been established in this thread that Christians have a duty to keep God's commandments:

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind".

John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments"

We will never be able to stop sinning because of our imperfect nature and so we will never be able to reach the standard of God through any works.
Jesus however makes up for this shortfall.

BUT, the point of this thread is that if we do not consciously turn away from sin and do our best to stop rebelling against God once we accept Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover those sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#627
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#627
@Chester don't pay too much attention to what eternally-grateful says: he/she, and a couple of others, seems to be forever baiting me and other people on this thread who say we should obey God's commandments.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#628
Apr 7, 2014
25,125
13,138
113
58
#628
DBurrage said:
I think the title of the thread has thrown people off, but here's what I believe:

We are reconciled with God through belief in our Lord Jesus Christ, and through him only.

We are told to
1. Have faith in Jesus, AND
2. Do our best to stop sinning and rebelling against God

It has already been established in this thread that Christians have a duty to keep God's commandments:

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind".

John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments"

We will never be able to stop sinning because of our imperfect nature and so we will never be able to reach the standard of God through any works.
Jesus however makes up for this shortfall.

BUT, the point of this thread is that if we do not consciously turn away from sin and do our best to stop rebelling against God once we accept Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover those sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".
Click to expand...
Still sounds like double speak and you did not give me direct answers to my direct questions.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#629
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#629
mailmandan said:
Still sounds like double speak and you did not give me direct answers to my direct questions.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry if that's the case.
I thought by clarifying what I'm saying that it would answer your questions.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#631
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#631
DBurrage said:
@Chester don't pay too much attention to what eternally-grateful says: he/she, and a couple of others, seems to be forever baiting me and other people on this thread who say we should obey God's commandments.
Click to expand...
"Keep" not "obey." Look up and know the difference.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#632
#632
DBurrage said:
I think the title of the thread has thrown people off, but here's what I believe:

We are reconciled with God through belief in our Lord Jesus Christ, and through him only.

We are told to
1. Have faith in Jesus, AND
2. Do our best to stop sinning and rebelling against God
Click to expand...
once again

The BOLDED point number 2 is where people are disagreeing with you. You are claiming to be saved we have to do our best.. THATS WORKS!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#633
#633
DBurrage said:
@Chester don't pay too much attention to what eternally-grateful says: he/she, and a couple of others, seems to be forever baiting me and other people on this thread who say we should obey God's commandments.
Click to expand...
You said you loved me, but here you once again bear false witness against me And you want people to think you really love them?

I am not baiting you. nor is anyone else. We disagree with something you say. And we want you to explain it. But I guess that offends you? and is not loving??
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#634
#634
DBurrage said:
I'm sorry if that's the case.
I thought by clarifying what I'm saying that it would answer your questions.
Click to expand...
You keep repeating the same thing as if it will help us. as if we do not understand.

We ask you questions ABOUT what you said, continuing to repeat the same words does not help.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#635
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#635
eternally-gratefull said:
Matthew 12:31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
Click to expand...
Thank you for providing a verse.
I think we're making progress, you and I :)

So how do I reconcile this with my reading of Hebrews 10:26?

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins"
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#638
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#638
eternally-gratefull said:
You said you loved me, but here you once again bear false witness against me And you want people to think you really love them?

I am not baiting you. nor is anyone else. We disagree with something you say. And we want you to explain it. But I guess that offends you? and is not loving??
Click to expand...
I do love you.
You said you love me too.

At times, our disagreements have verged on personal attacks, name calling and mocking.

However, kudos to you for posting #630. We seem to be making progress now.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#639
#639
DBurrage said:
Thank you for providing a verse.
I think we're making progress, you and I :)

So how do I reconcile this with my reading of Hebrews 10:26?

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins"
Click to expand...
I have answered this question numerous time

How do you reconcile that verse with what Jesus said, and also What john says?

1 John 3:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

If child of God can not live in sin, How can they sin willfully and lose salvation?
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#640
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
43
#640
eternally-gratefull said:
I have answered this question numerous time

How do you reconcile that verse with what Jesus said, and also What john says?

1 John 3:
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

If child of God can not live in sin, How can they sin willfully and lose salvation?
Click to expand...
The verses you've highlighted suggest that Christians cannot sin, is that correct?
 
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