Apostles!

[VW]

Shucks, you got me. I didn't realize I needed to differentiate between Christ being resurrected and the two future resurrections for everyone else.

If you are in Him, then you have been raised from the dead with Him. Gee!

Also, He did not say that those who live and believe in Him would live forever after they had died. He said, and I quote, that those who live and believe in Him would never die. So you are adding to scripture, making what He said to be something different, because you do not believe.

In John Chapter 5 we see the two resurrection, and we see something entirely different. Jesus said that the hour is coming and now is, (that means that it has already come,) that the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and that those who hear will live.

Have we heard His voice? If not, then we are in fact waiting for the resurrection. But if we have heard His voice, then we have come alive in His resurrection, and are not waiting for a resurrection, but rather to see Him and become like Him.

How is it that you don't know these things?

 

[Graybeard]

A fairy tale? No. It was a parable.


After He died, He was dead for three days and three nights. After He was raised, he went and preached to the spirits in prison (I Pet 3:19) Then He appeared to mary, the 12, and everyone else.

actually He preached to the spirits before He was raised, that is when He set the captives free......besides, what spirits was He preaching to?

 

[Red33]

If you are in Him, then you have been raised from the dead with Him. Gee!

Also, He did not say that those who live and believe in Him would live forever after they had died. He said, and I quote, that those who live and believe in Him would never die. So you are adding to scripture, making what He said to be something different, because you do not believe.

In John Chapter 5 we see the two resurrection, and we see something entirely different. Jesus said that the hour is coming and now is, (that means that it has already come,) that the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and that those who hear will live.

Have we heard His voice? If not, then we are in fact waiting for the resurrection. But if we have heard His voice, then we have come alive in His resurrection, and are not waiting for a resurrection, but rather to see Him and become like Him.

How is it that you don't know these things?

If you get hit by a car and your hearts stops beating and they pronounce you dead, your body is dead and it won't be long before they bury it in the grave. There will be a resurrection of that body in the future but in the grave it is dead, dead, dead. Now you, as a believer, with your redeemed soul go immediately to be present with the Lord as your body goes into the grave with no blood and no life. When Christ comes back, the believer is reunited with his resurrected body and puts on immotality and incorruption. That is the resurrection of the church and it comes after the resurrection of Christ. See how simple and uncomplicated that is. Don't confuse the soul with the resurrection of the body.

 

[shroom2]

If you are in Him, then you have been raised from the dead with Him. Gee!

Figuratively, yes. Christians have been born of God. They have holy spirit, the 'token' of the coming attraction. And yes, I am to reckon the old man dead, and walk in newness of life. But Christ has not returned yet. Christians are still dying. Death is still an enemy. People still get sick. When he returns, THEN we receive our new bodies. Those who have died will be raised.

Also, He did not say that those who live and believe in Him would live forever after they had died.

Again, that will occur at the resurrection.

He said, and I quote, that those who live and believe in Him would never die. So you are adding to scripture, making what He said to be something different, because you do not believe.

Oh, I believe. Read the context. It will happen at the resurrection.

In John Chapter 5 we see the two resurrection, and we see something entirely different. Jesus said that the hour is coming and now is, (that means that it has already come,) that the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and that those who hear will live.

He said "and now is" because He was the one everyone had been waiting for. But until He returns, as promised, people who have died are dead.

Have we heard His voice? If not, then we are in fact waiting for the resurrection. But if we have heard His voice, then we have come alive in His resurrection, and are not waiting for a resurrection, but rather to see Him and become like Him.

And that will happen when He returns, at which the dead in Christ will be raised.

How is it that you don't know these things?

I love it when you question others beliefs because they don't believe like you do.

 

[shroom2]

actually He preached to the spirits before He was raised, that is when He set the captives free......besides, what spirits was He preaching to?

How could he do anything before he was raised? He was dead.

I believe those were the spirits responsible for the wickedness in the time of Noah.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Also I Pet 3:20

 

[shroom2]

If you get hit by a car and your hearts stops beating and they pronounce you dead, your body is dead and it won't be long before they bury it in the grave. There will be a resurrection of that body in the future but in the grave it is dead, dead, dead. Now you, as a believer, with your redeemed soul go immediately to be present with the Lord as your body goes into the grave with no blood and no life. When Christ comes back, the believer is reunited with his resurrected body and puts on immotality and incorruption. That is the resurrection of the church and it comes after the resurrection of Christ. See how simple and uncomplicated that is. Don't confuse the soul with the resurrection of the body.

I will disagree with you, Red. I think the bible teaches that when we die, we are really dead. The body rots, the soul dies, and as you noted, the spirit returns to God. I believe we cease to exist, and have no consciousness, no existance at all. Somewhere, Ecc, I think, it says the "dead know nothing". In Psalms, David said that the dead cannot praise God.

Our hope is the return of Christ, when the dead will be raised, receive new bodies, and the living will be changed.

God bless.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

I will disagree with you, Red. I think the bible teaches that when we die, we are really dead. The body rots, the soul dies, and as you noted, the spirit returns to God. I believe we cease to exist, and have no consciousness, no existance at all. Somewhere, Ecc, I think, it says the "dead know nothing". In Psalms, David said that the dead cannot praise God.

Our hope is the return of Christ, when the dead will be raised, receive new bodies, and the living will be changed.

God bless.

Actually we are resting is how it is put out in the bible.

God bless

 

[Graybeard]

I believe those were the spirits responsible for the wickedness in the time of Noah.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Also I Pet 3:20

are you saying they where evil spirits, like from the devil?

 

[VW]

Figuratively, yes. Christians have been born of God. They have holy spirit, the 'token' of the coming attraction. And yes, I am to reckon the old man dead, and walk in newness of life. But Christ has not returned yet. Christians are still dying. Death is still an enemy. People still get sick. When he returns, THEN we receive our new bodies. Those who have died will be raised.


Again, that will occur at the resurrection.


Oh, I believe. Read the context. It will happen at the resurrection.


He said "and now is" because He was the one everyone had been waiting for. But until He returns, as promised, people who have died are dead.


And that will happen when He returns, at which the dead in Christ will be raised.


I love it when you question others beliefs because they don't believe like you do.

Question your beliefs? You don't believe in Jesus. You believe in religion and in a resurrection.

Over and over again it is stated in the bible that we are alive in Jesus. Many many times it says just that. But to you this is figurative. Or, to use another word, imaginative. Well, the Holy Spirit does not teach figurative or imaginative things, He teaches truth. He teaches that Jesus is the Way, and the Truth, and the Life.

So, while I put you on ignore, you go ahead and wait for the resurrection, which is followed by the judgment, of your works.

 

[Red33]

I will disagree with you, Red. I think the bible teaches that when we die, we are really dead. The body rots, the soul dies, and as you noted, the spirit returns to God. I believe we cease to exist, and have no consciousness, no existance at all. Somewhere, Ecc, I think, it says the "dead know nothing". In Psalms, David said that the dead cannot praise God.

Our hope is the return of Christ, when the dead will be raised, receive new bodies, and the living will be changed.

God bless.

When a sinner believes upon the Lord Jesus, they are redeemed by the blood of Christ (Eph 1:7, Col 1:14). Man has a spirit, soul and body that must be preserved unto the coming of the Lord (1Thes 5:23). What part of that sinner does redemption apply to when they get saved? According to (Rom 8:22-25, Eph 1:14) we are waiting for the redemption of our bodies but it does not mention the soul. God breathed into man and man became a living soul (Gen 2:7). The soul is that part of man that God breaths life into and when sin entered into the soul, death entered and reigned with sin (Rom 5:12,17, 7:13, 8:2). The soul is dead because of sin and God considers us to be dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1, Col 2:13).

If the sinner is going to be forgiven and cleansed from sin their soul must be redeemed by the blood of Christ. So redemption applies to the soul first and that happens instantly when we believe upon Christ. The soul is crucified, buried and raised positionally with Christ and it is all spiritual and it all happens by faith by the power of God's redemption through the cross (1Cor 1:18). This is the inner man (Eph 3:16), the new creature in Christ (2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:5), that has been regenerated (Tits 3:5) and created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph 4:24). Now we only wait for the redemption of our bodies that will take place when Christ comes back and we are caught up, both the living and the dead in Christ (Rom 8:23, 1Thes 4:13-17).

The soul that has been regenerated dieth no more. When we die are 'soul body', made up of the mind, the emotions, the volition, the conscience and the God-conscious capacity, that we now have because of the word and the Spirit, leaves and is absent from the body and is present with the Lord (2Cor 4:14, 5:8). Then you have the experience of a man who was in Christ (2Cor 12:2-4), who was caught up into paradise in the third heaven, but whether he was in the body or not, he did not know. In my opinion it seems that he had the same awareness of having an individual and recognizable presence with some kind of discernible body as did the rich man, Lazarus and Abraham in (Lk 16:19-31), as did Moses on the high mount in (Mt 17:1-3) when he and Elias appeared with Christ and was recognized by Peter, James and John.

 

[journey41]

It is a sin to worship people. Worship God the Father and no one else.

[/QUOTE]Your twisting Jonathons words Res33. He didn't imply that.

 

[AnandaHya]

some people die and some people sleep until the time of resurrection in Heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead

2 Peter 3
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 Peter 3

God’s Promise Is Not Slack

1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,[a] the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[c] 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[livingbygrace]

I will disagree with you, Red. I think the bible teaches that when we die, we are really dead. The body rots, the soul dies, and as you noted, the spirit returns to God. I believe we cease to exist, and have no consciousness, no existance at all. Somewhere, Ecc, I think, it says the "dead know nothing". In Psalms, David said that the dead cannot praise God.

Our hope is the return of Christ, when the dead will be raised, receive new bodies, and the living will be changed.

God bless.

For it is my Father's will that everyone who looks to the son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day

John 6:40

 

[jonathanbchristian]

I think it's amazing what God did in Apostles! Do you believe someone could be a chosen apostle today?

 

[zone]

Do you believe someone could be a chosen apostle today?

no.
mission accomplished.

 

[unclefester]

I think it's amazing what God did in Apostles! Do you believe someone could be a chosen apostle today?

Nope. God's divinely inspired Word and the church' foundation is already laid and complete.

 

[shroom2]

are you saying they where evil spirits, like from the devil?

Yes, like.

That's exactly what they were.

 

[shroom2]

Question your beliefs?

Isn't that what you're doing?

You don't believe in Jesus.

I believe in Jesus Christ. Do you?

You believe in religion

I know it exists, that it is fooling many

and in a resurrection.

I absolutely believe in the coming resurrection. The only one raised so far is Jesus Christ.

Over and over again it is stated in the bible that we are alive in Jesus. Many many times it says just that. But to you this is figurative.

It says in Ephesians we have the earnest of the purchased possession. The down payment. That's holy spirit, received when we get born again. Romans 10:9

Or, to use another word, imaginative.

That's your word.

Well, the Holy Spirit does not teach figurative or imaginative things, He teaches truth. He teaches that Jesus is the Way, and the Truth, and the Life.

Exactly. But we do not have the fullness of what's coming yet.

So, while I put you on ignore,

OH NO! NOT THAT!

you go ahead and wait for the resurrection, which is followed by the judgment, of your works.

That's what I'm doing. Well, actually, I'm waiting for the return of Christ. It could happen at any time.

...And just in case you misunderstood me, I absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, believe God raised Jesus Christ from the dead about 1980 years ago. He is the firstfruits from the dead. We'll follow, but it has not happened yet.

 

[shroom2]

Hello, Red

When a sinner believes upon the Lord Jesus, they are redeemed by the blood of Christ (Eph 1:7, Col 1:14). Man has a spirit, soul and body that must be preserved unto the coming of the Lord (1Thes 5:23).

It says "be preserved blameless". It does not say "kept alive". We are to keep ourselves from sin.

What part of that sinner does redemption apply to when they get saved? According to (Rom 8:22-25, Eph 1:14) we are waiting for the redemption of our bodies but it does not mention the soul. God breathed into man and man became a living soul (Gen 2:7). The soul is that part of man that God breaths life into and when sin entered into the soul, death entered and reigned with sin (Rom 5:12,17, 7:13, 8:2). The soul is dead because of sin and God considers us to be dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1, Col 2:13).

Because of sin, we are spiritually dead until we become born again (Rom 10:9). Prior to becoming born again, we were "natural man", consisting only of body and soul. There is nothing permanent or immortal about the soul. It's simply a requirement of life. The body without the soul is dead, and the soul cannot exist without the body. Animals have soul (Gen 1:21, creature is nephesh, soul). Soul is breath life.

If the sinner is going to be forgiven and cleansed from sin their soul must be redeemed by the blood of Christ. So redemption applies to the soul first and that happens instantly when we believe upon Christ. The soul is crucified, buried and raised positionally with Christ and it is all spiritual and it all happens by faith by the power of God's redemption through the cross (1Cor 1:18). This is the inner man (Eph 3:16), the new creature in Christ (2Cor 5:17, Gal 6:5), that has been regenerated (Tits 3:5) and created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph 4:24). Now we only wait for the redemption of our bodies that will take place when Christ comes back and we are caught up, both the living and the dead in Christ (Rom 8:23, 1Thes 4:13-17).

I disagree. What happens when we get born again is that we get spirit. We are once again complete, with body, soul, and spirit, the way Adam originally was before the fall. The inner man is our spirit, not our redeemed soul. Again, our soul is simply that which makes us alive in this life.

The soul that has been regenerated dieth no more. When we die are 'soul body', made up of the mind, the emotions, the volition, the conscience and the God-conscious capacity,

Sorry. That is not true. When we die, we are dead. We know nothing. We cannot praise God.

that we now have because of the word and the Spirit, leaves and is absent from the body and is present with the Lord (2Cor 4:14, 5:8).

Death is many times referred to as sleep. One reason is that believers are guaranteed eternal life, so death can be looked at as sleep, temporary. Also, we are not aware of the passage of time when we are sleeping. You go to bed, and poof, the next thing you know is it's morning. So it will be in death. After I die (if Christ hasn't returned) the next conscious thought I'll have will be the return. So in a sense, nobody has to wait any longer than their natural life for the return of Christ. This is what Paul was referring to in II Cor 5.

Then you have the experience of a man who was in Christ (2Cor 12:2-4), who was caught up into paradise in the third heaven, but whether he was in the body or not, he did not know. In my opinion it seems that he had the same awareness of having an individual and recognizable presence with some kind of discernible body

Paul received revelation as to what the coming new heaven and earth will be like. That's what those verses are referring to. Lucky dog.

as did the rich man, Lazarus and Abraham in (Lk 16:19-31),

That was a parable. Do you really think Heaven will be just across a gulf from hell, and that we'll be able to hear the screams of those suffering in agony? I do not. Hell is simply the grave. Permanent death. But that's another subject.

as did Moses on the high mount in (Mt 17:1-3) when he and Elias appeared with Christ and was recognized by Peter, James and John.

That was a vision. It says so in Mat 17:9. Moses and Elijah are dead. They will get up at the first resurrection.

Death is an enemy. The first lie the devil told man was "ye shall NOT surely die". It is still a lie.

God bless.

 

[shroom2]

Nope. God's divinely inspired Word and the church' foundation is already laid and complete.

Satan had it thoroughly decimated by about the end of the first century. We still need people with those gift ministries today. There is nothing in the bible that says they ceased, unless you misinterpret "whether there be tongues, they shall cease". The manifestations and gift ministries will be with us until they are no longer needed, the return of Christ.