Christianity and sperm donation!!!

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Mar 4, 2020
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#21
Recently, I was talking to an old friend from a church I use to attend, who is a lady in her mid 40s. She is unmarried, has not been in a relationship for many years and does not have a child. She desperately wants to start a family and can afford to go it alone but she does not want to adopt. She is now considering using a sperm donor but as a Christian, I told her that she could be commiting a sin if she does that because maturbation is a sinful act. She argues that this is an option to procreate and it is in line with the will of God. I do acknowledge that in Genesis 1:28, God told mankind to; "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it................" This seems controversial (at best) if it is taken at face value but for Christians, it could be rather challenging to know which side shoud take priority. If the side of sin wins the debate, then what can she do to make her dream of having a child a reality without compromising her Christianity?
Essentially what it is is taking a man’s “seed” and putting it inside of a woman. Fancy hospitals and doctors with their degrees and precise procedures dress it up a bit, but fundamentally it’s a bit crude.

Just trying to put myself in the position of Paul and see what he’d say. I think if he knew women were manually putting men’s seed inside themselves, especially outside of marriage, trying to bypass fornication and adultery, he’d probably have words against it. I guess he would say it’s a sin, but I can’t speak for him of course. Just my opinion based off of what I see from his personality in the New Testament.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
639
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#22
There was a somewhat similar situation in the book of Genesis when Abraham and Sarah were given a promise from God. They decided to do things their own way and you know what happened after they chose Sarah's handmaid to have that child. That is the closest example that I can think of.
That is found in chapter 16 if you want to read that.
See,
Abraham and Sarah believed that it was Sarah's fault in some way that they had no children....that's why they gave Hagar a shot at bearing Abraham a son....and the results were disastrous. Hagar got uppity because of the relationship and was eventually banished. The resulting son fathered the Ishmaelites that has caused the Jews no end of grief to this day.

That's the result of trying to do things on your timing instead of allowing God to do things in His timing. God grants life...He does give you things at times because of your persistence....but they aren't always as pleasant.
I read it and saw how Hagar bore Ishmael to Abraham but it was against the will of God and this brought with it some unintended consequences for even the innocent parties. As JohnDB so aptly described it above.
Here's what the New Testament has to say about the whole Abraham, Hagar, Sarah, Ishmael, and Isaac situation:

Galatians chapter 4

[21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
[22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
[23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
[24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
[25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
[27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
[28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
[29] But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
[31] So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

An allegory is basically a story which conveys a secondary or hidden meaning.

In the case of the whole Hagar/Ishmael and Sarah/Isaac situation, this was ORDAINED BY GOD to show us the two covenants or the differences between the Old Covenant/Testament and the New Covenant/Testament.

Hagar was a bondwoman, and Ishmael was "born after the flesh", and, allegorically speaking, this points to "Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children". In other words, the Jews who are seeking justification via the Old Testament law and its accompanying circumcision in the foreskins of their flesh are still in bondage to sin.

Conversely, Sarah was a freewoman, and Isaac was not only born "by promise", but he "was born after the Spirit" as well in that there was a supernatural element involved in his conception. Allegorically speaking, this points to "Jerusalem which is above" and "is free, which is the mother of us all". In other words, those of us, whether Jews or Gentiles, who are seeking justification via the New Testament and its accompanying circumcision in the spirit are truly free via our faith in the ultimate child of promise, Jesus Christ.

With such being the case, I'd recommend that people here stop suggesting that "they decided to do things their own way", or in their own "timing", or that the whole situation was 'against the will of God".
 
J

Jackieboy100

Guest
#23
Essentially what it is is taking a man’s “seed” and putting it inside of a woman. Fancy hospitals and doctors with their degrees and precise procedures dress it up a bit, but fundamentally it’s a bit crude.

Just trying to put myself in the position of Paul and see what he’d say. I think if he knew women were manually putting men’s seed inside themselves, especially outside of marriage, trying to bypass fornication and adultery, he’d probably have words against it. I guess he would say it’s a sin, but I can’t speak for him of course. Just my opinion based off of what I see from his personality in the New Testament.
Simply enough explanation but ties in with the general notion that it is indeed sinful, no matter how one looks at it. My only concession, as small as it may be, is that some of the prior personal decisions she made concerning having a child or family, were done before she became a Christian. This meant that she was ignorant to some of the consequences that some of her actions would later produce. So I feel some compassion for her and that is why I am doing my best to not judge her harshly but to gently help her arrive at an appropriate decision that will not compromise the Christian values that she has worked to maintain.
 

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
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#24
Its always interesting to me how women have a yearning for a baby at different stages of their lives. I feel comfortable telling my female friends to check that they show obedience to God before they ask for something in their prayers. Someone brought up adoption, there are so many unwanted children in this world its really heartbreaking, Does she want her own baby or would she be happy with adopting? And its very hard being a single parent so maybe pray for a husband first?
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,747
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#25
With such being the case, I'd recommend that people here stop suggesting that "they decided to do things their own way", or in their own "timing", or that the whole situation was 'against the will of God".
Your suggestion is taken under advisement and will be reviewed by the circular board for consideration.
 
J

Jackieboy100

Guest
#26
To call that fact you need some sort of hard data. Yes there are single parents who are amazing heroes that pretty much spend their entire lives to raise their children well. And some of those children end up doing well. So no bad talk about people who find themselves in or take on a single parent role But the big picture shows and has shown for pretty much all my life being raised by your two biological parents is a huge advantage that makes it less likely you will grow up poor or spend time in jail and more likely that you'll graduate college .

https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-pov...two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children
Raising children in a two-parent (biological or blended) family or the recorded impacts of single parenthood on children are not in contention for me in this particular case, as the focus is what she can do to arrive at the place where she wants to be............have a child! I beleive that she is entitled to pursue her dream albeit within the purview of the Scriptures, which means she would have to settle for some other means other than artificial insemination.
Below is a peer-reviewed paper that provides a background on the rise of single parenthood [see citation below]

Ellwood, David T. and Jencks, Christopher, The Spread of Single-Parent Families in the United States Since 1960 (February 26, 2004). KSG Working Paper No. RWP04-008, Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=517662 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.517662
 
J

Jackieboy100

Guest
#27
This will probably sound harsh, but it sounds like she made a choice about the direction her life would go and what she would put her time and energy into and now isn't happy with the results of her choice, but choices have consequences and limitations. What happens when the choice to have a child turns out in an unexpected way and she isn't happy with the results? Still sounds like this is mainly about her happiness and fulfillment and she has no problem using other people and even creating a people in pursuit of that goal.
You are thoroughly entitled to your opinion and I agree that she should face the consequences of her choices but because some of her actions predates her Christian journey, I beleive she should be shown some compassion, especially in a situation that is already emotionally charged. She was simply unaware of some of the pitfalls that would later be associated with her collective action.
 
J

Jackieboy100

Guest
#28
Its always interesting to me how women have a yearning for a baby at different stages of their lives. I feel comfortable telling my female friends to check that they show obedience to God before they ask for something in their prayers. Someone brought up adoption, there are so many unwanted children in this world its really heartbreaking, Does she want her own baby or would she be happy with adopting? And its very hard being a single parent so maybe pray for a husband first?
That is very thoughtful of you! I think she had pinned her hopes on artificial insemination but somewhere along the line she found the lord and everything changed for her upon finding out that this will be sinful in more ways than one.
 

TheNarrowPath

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
1,012
546
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#29
That is very thoughtful of you! I think she had pinned her hopes on artificial insemination but somewhere along the line she found the lord and everything changed for her upon finding out that this will be sinful in more ways than one.
I think I can understand her dilemma. Shes lucky to have you for counsel and friendship. Grateful she has found the Lord and Im sure whatever she chooses she will have had the heart to heart talk with Him.
 
J

Jackieboy100

Guest
#30
Here's what the New Testament has to say about the whole Abraham, Hagar, Sarah, Ishmael, and Isaac situation:

Galatians chapter 4

[21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
[22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
[23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
[24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
[25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
[27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
[28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
[29] But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
[30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
[31] So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

An allegory is basically a story which conveys a secondary or hidden meaning.

In the case of the whole Hagar/Ishmael and Sarah/Isaac situation, this was ORDAINED BY GOD to show us the two covenants or the differences between the Old Covenant/Testament and the New Covenant/Testament.

Hagar was a bondwoman, and Ishmael was "born after the flesh", and, allegorically speaking, this points to "Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children". In other words, the Jews who are seeking justification via the Old Testament law and its accompanying circumcision in the foreskins of their flesh are still in bondage to sin.

Conversely, Sarah was a freewoman, and Isaac was not only born "by promise", but he "was born after the Spirit" as well in that there was a supernatural element involved in his conception. Allegorically speaking, this points to "Jerusalem which is above" and "is free, which is the mother of us all". In other words, those of us, whether Jews or Gentiles, who are seeking justification via the New Testament and its accompanying circumcision in the spirit are truly free via our faith in the ultimate child of promise, Jesus Christ.

With such being the case, I'd recommend that people here stop suggesting that "they decided to do things their own way", or in their own "timing", or that the whole situation was 'against the will of God".
Since I can only speak on my own behalf, I have to say that my comment was not meant to have direct connotation to the biblical reference. Call it poor choice of words or whatever way you perceive it. I still appreciate your knowledge sharing. Thanks!
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
25,229
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#31
I'm still not clear on how it is unbiblical.

Not prudent, for sure. It's almost certainly not a good idea, for the reasons cinder listed. But I can't offhand recall any scripture it goes against. How is it "the side of sin?"
 
J

Jackieboy100

Guest
#32
I'm still not clear on how it is unbiblical.

Not prudent, for sure. It's almost certainly not a good idea, for the reasons cinder listed. But I can't offhand recall any scripture it goes against. How is it "the side of sin?"
I'm guessing you're talking about the issue of 'artificial insemination' as a means of parentage. Who says it's unbiblical?
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
639
113
#33
I'm still not clear on how it is unbiblical.

Not prudent, for sure. It's almost certainly not a good idea, for the reasons cinder listed. But I can't offhand recall any scripture it goes against. How is it "the side of sin?"
How is a woman being impregnated via the sperm of a man who isn't her husband a good thing?
 

gt4awd

New member
Aug 20, 2022
18
7
3
#34
Someone brought up adoption, there are so many unwanted children in this world its really heartbreaking
I agree. My opinions on the other factors don't matter. This is a FACT. There are so many children in need of a home...
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,747
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#35
I'm still not clear on how it is unbiblical.

Not prudent, for sure. It's almost certainly not a good idea, for the reasons cinder listed. But I can't offhand recall any scripture it goes against. How is it "the side of sin?"
I'm guessing that there are a lot of ways to sin but only one way to do it correctly.
And this is what is being referred to.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,400
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Tennessee
#36
I'm still not clear on how it is unbiblical.

Not prudent, for sure. It's almost certainly not a good idea, for the reasons cinder listed. But I can't offhand recall any scripture it goes against. How is it "the side of sin?"
In my opinion that option is not unbiblical. Unwise perhaps, as you have said, but not sinful either.
 
A

akaDorthy

Guest
#37
You know, the Bible says that "the two shall become one flesh". Now, even though I have been through it multiple times, I can't even begin to put into words what that feels like when a man and his wife join together, and procreate! Now, you have a whole new little person that is a part of him, and a part of her. I dunno, I guess I just don't understand why any woman in her right mind would want the sperm of a complete stranger implanted inside of her. (Or couples who can't conceive naturally and decide to try this route, what man in his right mind would want another mans sperm in his wife?)

You know, that sperm is, by God's design, genetically coded. There are things in life so deeply rooted in our inner beings and it doesn't matter how she/they raise that child, down the line there likely will be things they (the parent) don't want or want to deal with pertaining to the child because of what's in the DNA. (And I'm not talking about the things science claims to be able to test DNA for- I'm talking about the deeper issues like spiritual/generational issues that DNA testing can't even begin to touch.)
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
899
319
63
Bahrain
#38
I think I was a spec donor fo my ex wife , onc she had he children she left ! Thrn I became a money donor ☺️
 

Robertt

Well-known member
May 22, 2019
899
319
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Bahrain
#39
I think I was a spec donor fo my ex wife , onc she had he children she left ! Thrn I became a money donor ☺️
Hmmm. My fingers are too big for phones , and I need to read my posts before hitting POST too many typos
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
25,229
8,309
113
#40
I'm guessing you're talking about the issue of 'artificial insemination' as a means of parentage. Who says it's unbiblical?
If it doesn't go against the Bible, how is it on "the side of sin?"