You do not see that I have paraphrased from the NEW TESTAMENT what Jesus teaches? This is a total departure from the teachings of Yeshua. I am afraid no amount of reason will penetrate the condemnation you feel for those who will not leave the teachings of Yeshua in favor of your own interpretation of the Word. The written code does indeed kill without the Holy Spirit to guide us through. Your recent posts seem as daggers attempting to tear the very fabric of the truth given us from Jesus Christ. Please, there is absolutely no reason for this, please read the New Testament, it truly is the continuation of Torah and the Prophets, and there really is nothing new if one reads the Old Testament with the veil of Moses removed.
Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
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You do not see that I have paraphrased from the NEW TESTAMENT what Jesus teaches? This is a total departure from the teachings of Yeshua. I am afraid no amount of reason will penetrate the condemnation you feel for those who will not leave the teachings of Yeshua in favor of your own interpretation of the Word. The written code does indeed kill without the Holy Spirit to guide us through. Your recent posts seem as daggers attempting to tear the very fabric of the truth given us from Jesus Christ. Please, there is absolutely no reason for this, please read the New Testament, it truly is the continuation of Torah and the Prophets, and there really is nothing new if one reads the Old Testament with the veil of Moses removed.
I know one thing this place is definitely lacking that I have seen on many church's websites and missions websites. That is a mission statement and a statement of faith. When I first came here, I thought this would be a very loving and caring community despite what I believe but I was wrong.
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Using the historic meaning of the word, "respect," we are not to be respecters of persons. However when you mean recognizing the dignity of individuals, this is true. Loving others never means to yield to the will of any flesh when we know it is wrong in the sight of our Lord and Savior. Sometimes, respecting others will have nothing to do with giving them immediate satisfaction in what appears to be the correct way to approach a given situation. I refer to what I suppose some folks would call tough love. A toddler runs into the street, the mother grabs him and gives him a good whack so he remember she does not approve. Later the growing child learns the dangers of traffic and realizes the mother did everything in love knowing later in life the toddler would realize he was in danger. So it is with our love for one another. There are times we, if we love, appear stern, even cruel, but here is some wisdom from Jesus, "Judge not by appearances but with right judgment." And so we trudge along the path given us, sometimes it is easy, other times it is very rough, but once we have come to Jesus, we no longer suffer for doing what is wrong, no, we learn to suffer in patience for doing what is right, for the glory of God! amen....
This statement you have just made reveals what is in your heart concerning Christ and the church and that you do not believe in the teachings of Paul that we have been given concerning the church and body of Christ. You seem to have your own personal convictions about what Paul taught concerning the body of Christ and the church and I am going to make an assumption that you believe that much of what he taught about the body of Christ and the church was not from God or the Holy Spirit.
I want to hear from other believers of the new covenant that are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and what they believe in their heart concerning Christ and the church and the fulness of God in the body. Let them use and refer to the same scriptures mentioned and what ever else God leads them to use. But, let's use the Scriptures, God's counsel, given to us in the NT for the NT believer as it pertains to the mystery of Christ and the church.
I want to hear from other believers of the new covenant that are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and what they believe in their heart concerning Christ and the church and the fulness of God in the body. Let them use and refer to the same scriptures mentioned and what ever else God leads them to use. But, let's use the Scriptures, God's counsel, given to us in the NT for the NT believer as it pertains to the mystery of Christ and the church.
The idea is intended to demonstrate with something understandable that oft times God will teach us by means that seem stern or cruel, and we later realize why whatever the specific teaching was necessary and a demonstration of His love. All things work out for the good for those who love Yahweh. Once this last idea is understood, life becomes much easier, the Way He has given each of us. Understood is not simply the words, it is also understanding the depth of the meaning in the heart, soul and mind. The illustration is simply attempting to get a point across as painlessly as possible. And if you are not a child approaching the Father, you will never approach Him. Here is a thought for you, meditate on approaching the Maker of all that is as anything but a child, for instance, an intellectual, a philosopher, a scientist, or simply as an adult man-to-man. Think about that before hitting the keyboard.........
You realize of course I have not mentioned Paul, whom I read and believe as a teacher. However when any given subject has me wondering, I always go to what the Master has taught on that subject, and I am satisfied totally. It seems you think Paul taught us to forget the law. If this is the case, I think you had better read what Yeshua, Jesus, has taught quite plainly on the subject. You do believe Yeshua is the Authority of all that is, do you not?
You have problems with Paul's doctrine about many things but especially concerning Christ and the church. Our Lord spoke very little about the church and body of Christ because that revelation and mystery was revealed to Paul primarily and going back to what Christ taught on the subject, you would find very little, if anything. To find out about the eternal purpose and function of the church and body of Christ you have to go to Paul's writings in the NT epistles which are inspired of God and given by authority of the Holy Spirit. You are not being honest in your post and you avoid everything the scriptures gives to the believer concerning the church and body of Christ. You can't deny it because it is too obvious. Perhaps there will be a time when you will desire to know and be a part of this great church and body of Christ that we have been placed in by our Lord Jesus Christ.
So, you belong to Paul. Does not Paul teach that we do not follow him nor Peter, nor anyone other than Jesus, Yeshua? Were any of them crucified for your sins. I think not. Paul is the first to teach that Christ is the Head of the Body, and He brought the good news to us all. Yes, Yeshua does speak of the church, enough to know all true teaching is from Him. No member of His Body can possibly know or learn anything without His authority; it is simply impossible. I also read Paul extensively, however the words that always put me at perfect ease come from the Master for He has the words of Salvation. No, I do not belong to Paul; he and I belong to Yeshua. Perhaps one day you will understand this. Paul does teach this in no uncertain terms.
B
So many do not realize that we as Believers in this dispensation of Grace are not held under a performance based acceptance system. We are justified by God through his grace:
Romans 3:24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
We have peace with God:
Romans 5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
We have His righteousness:
Romans 3:26: To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
We cannot be justified by the law:
Romans 3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
So many do not realize that what Paul writes is what was given to him by the revelation of the ascended Lord Jesus Christ.
The Earthly ministry of Christ and what the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ are different dispensations. We need to follow the current dispensation or operating system.
Ephesians 3:1: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2: If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Ephesians 3:3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Romans 3:24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
We have peace with God:
Romans 5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
We have His righteousness:
Romans 3:26: To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
We cannot be justified by the law:
Romans 3:19: Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
So many do not realize that what Paul writes is what was given to him by the revelation of the ascended Lord Jesus Christ.
The Earthly ministry of Christ and what the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ are different dispensations. We need to follow the current dispensation or operating system.
Ephesians 3:1: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Ephesians 3:2: If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Ephesians 3:3: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Ephesians 3:4: Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Ephesians 3:5: Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Revelation 22
This evening i was troubled with some things I've read today, and tonight was lead to the scripture below, and will share it to show Paul did teach the Keeping of Yahvah God's Commandments.
And there is a distinction from the 10 Commandments of Yahvah God and the Law of Moses which some deny..
1 Corinthians
1 Corinthians 7
NIV also
Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
This evening i was troubled with some things I've read today, and tonight was lead to the scripture below, and will share it to show Paul did teach the Keeping of Yahvah God's Commandments.
And there is a distinction from the 10 Commandments of Yahvah God and the Law of Moses which some deny..
1 Corinthians
1 Corinthians 7
NIV also
Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
There are some believers (most of them of Jewish persuasion) who still want to live under the law selectively using the words of Christ in the gospels so that they can be satisfied with serving Yeshua. They know enough to realize that Christ was prophesied to come and they believe upon Him and the blood He shed with their whole heart but they have difficulty and wrestle with what Christ had left us when He ascended to His Father which began with Pentecost.
The mystery of the church and the revelation of the body of Christ does not satisfy their desired form of worship that includes the keeping of the Sabbath and other practices that the NT church it not obligated to keep. They want to be under the law as it fits their form of worship of Yahveh but also under grace because of sin. They have never learned how to worship the Lord in GRACE and TRUTH through the Spirit. Measures of the law dictate their worship that is contrary to grace and the gathering of the saints in the church and body of Christ.
They are more oriented to justification through keeping the commandments then they are being justified by grace through faith in the cross and blood of Christ. They acknowledge these things concerning what our Lord has done for them and they believe, but they do not rest in these things that have been accomplished on their behalf making them complete in Christ. Therefore they must keep the commandments including the Sabbath to stabilize a justifiable relationship with Yahveh under the law of righteousness instead of resting in God's imputed righteousness through the law of faith as a believer who is under grace and not the law.
This is difficult for them because of their heritage, background and identification as a Jew or Hebrew and they don't want to count it all dung to win Christ in their own life. The NT church and teachings of the body does not meet there requirements for a relationship with Yeshua because they want an independent recognition of Christ and not a corporate one that is dependent on the supply that comes from all believers in the body who make up the fulness of God. They do not discern the Lord's body and want to commune only with Christ the head but not with His body that receives from the head.
This is why Paul's teaching on this is so foreign to them, but it's the very reason why Christ gave it to Paul so that the Jews would break out of their shell of what they had come to rely upon under the law with all of its traditions including circumcision and into the glorious liberty offered through Christ in the church by grace and through the promises of God.
The mystery of the church and the revelation of the body of Christ does not satisfy their desired form of worship that includes the keeping of the Sabbath and other practices that the NT church it not obligated to keep. They want to be under the law as it fits their form of worship of Yahveh but also under grace because of sin. They have never learned how to worship the Lord in GRACE and TRUTH through the Spirit. Measures of the law dictate their worship that is contrary to grace and the gathering of the saints in the church and body of Christ.
They are more oriented to justification through keeping the commandments then they are being justified by grace through faith in the cross and blood of Christ. They acknowledge these things concerning what our Lord has done for them and they believe, but they do not rest in these things that have been accomplished on their behalf making them complete in Christ. Therefore they must keep the commandments including the Sabbath to stabilize a justifiable relationship with Yahveh under the law of righteousness instead of resting in God's imputed righteousness through the law of faith as a believer who is under grace and not the law.
This is difficult for them because of their heritage, background and identification as a Jew or Hebrew and they don't want to count it all dung to win Christ in their own life. The NT church and teachings of the body does not meet there requirements for a relationship with Yeshua because they want an independent recognition of Christ and not a corporate one that is dependent on the supply that comes from all believers in the body who make up the fulness of God. They do not discern the Lord's body and want to commune only with Christ the head but not with His body that receives from the head.
This is why Paul's teaching on this is so foreign to them, but it's the very reason why Christ gave it to Paul so that the Jews would break out of their shell of what they had come to rely upon under the law with all of its traditions including circumcision and into the glorious liberty offered through Christ in the church by grace and through the promises of God.
Red, i Truly believe Paul's teaching is not foreign to Jaume or myself, it is you that is without understanding.
It is you that ignores scripture that corrects your error....
Continue to believe, but do not be guilty of teaching others the error of your ways.
Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
It is you that ignores scripture that corrects your error....
Continue to believe, but do not be guilty of teaching others the error of your ways.
Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
We are all grafted into the vine through mercy and grace, but I am speaking about the church and body made of Jew and Gentile that Christ prepared for us when He ascended to the Father and gave gifts according to (Eph 4:8-16). You are a believer of the NT church and body under grace and not the letter of the law. The body is a living organism that God has placed every believer within this dispensation and time of the Gentiles. As a believer in Christ (Yeshua) we have been saved and made a member of that body being placed in Christ. We are to function as one member of one body made up of many members.
Every believer has a measure of Christ and His faith in them that we need to receive from one another as a supply of the Spirit so that the body can be edified in the love and grace of God. There is dependency involved in that supply. The supply that I have from God, as a member of His body, can not be supplied by another and it is the same for each member. Together when we are giving of our supply, we are knit together and function together as one body and not as all these independent members running around doing service to God and keeping His commandments. We keep the commandments as a body and edify one another as a body and we grow up together into our head (Christ) together as a body. This is what God's redeemed church is doing as a body, a living organism revealing an invisible God as the living God through the life of the body of Christ.
Every believer has a measure of Christ and His faith in them that we need to receive from one another as a supply of the Spirit so that the body can be edified in the love and grace of God. There is dependency involved in that supply. The supply that I have from God, as a member of His body, can not be supplied by another and it is the same for each member. Together when we are giving of our supply, we are knit together and function together as one body and not as all these independent members running around doing service to God and keeping His commandments. We keep the commandments as a body and edify one another as a body and we grow up together into our head (Christ) together as a body. This is what God's redeemed church is doing as a body, a living organism revealing an invisible God as the living God through the life of the body of Christ.