IS LIVING TOGETHER A SIN?

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kenisyes

Guest
You believe in something, but cannot defend against a simple Scripture? What part of Acts 15:28 "no greater burden than these necessary things" are you not understanding? This passage makes it unnecessary for us to assume a posture of advocating the use of OT law outside of Israel.

Theonomy, as practiced by some people (I just checked) believes that countries would well be governed by OT Law, as a matter of political choice. This is identical to the desire in England, I heard about last year, that some Moslems have for making Shitte law the law of the land there, and allowing each person an option whether to follow British or Moslem Law (Does anybody from UK know how that's coming? I haven't heard anything for a year or more.) That is very different from "unless a law has been specifically annulled it remains in force". The first argument is that we could have a constitutional convention, adopt the OT as our constitution. The second is that our current laws are intrinsically unGodly because they are not the OT. The second arguments is more than struck down by the NT, in Acts, also by Paul, and also by Jesus who teaches universal forgiveness. The force of OT law simply is not a decision of God for any nation beyond Israel, and only for them until Jesus came.

As far as the first, adoption of OT Law would be fine, except we can't do it as a decision of man either. You see, the 613 commandments are a single unity. If you accept some without others, it is still a decision of man, which to accept. Suppose you stone people for adultery, fine. Now, you also need to accept arranged marriages at age 12 to control temptation. Then, you need to limit the educational requirements, so kids can marry at age 12. But, since Jesus came, the Holy Spirit being poured on the world has created new gifts that have led to massive scientific progress, requiring more education to exploit. So, if you restrict education, you lose your scientists, etc. Without scientists, no refrigeration, more disease, and now you can't eat pork, etc., etc., etc. And now what do you do about the older brothers who want to kill the man who they think raped their sister? You need Levitical cities he can run to. So you need Levites. Where is the temple to train them? Who will you choose today. When God does it, He does it right. Which is also why He told us it's not for the whole time of earth, just for His people, and just until Messiah.

I believe we'd all be better off in a theocracy, or theonomy if you like. But I mean, our laws need to follow the teachings of Jesus, not Moses.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm not saying you are angry, but your posts sound really angry. Is there something special that is causing this? Personally, I'd rather have relationship with Jesus than all the theological resources there are. I'd rather have my own views than quotes from someone else.
 
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The Greek word for fornication is porneía. It can refer to illicit sexual relations between either married or unmarried persons. The ancient Greeks, in rare instances, may have understood this term to denote acts other than illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. But the sense in which Jesus used the word porneía at Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 must be ascertained from the context.
It should be noted that in Matthew chapters 5 and 19 "fornication" is used in the restricted sense of marital unfaithfulness, or illicit relations with another person not one's marriage mate. Just before bringing up the matter of divorce in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ pointed out that "everyone [married] that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28) Consequently, when he afterward alluded to a woman's committing fornication, his listeners would have understood this in its relative sense, namely, as signifying a married woman's prostitution or adultery.
The context of Matthew chapter 19 confirms this conclusion. On the basis of the Hebrew Scriptures, Jesus pointed out that a man and his wife became "one flesh," and then added: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart. Matt 19:5,6.
We are to resist temptation, not give into it:

[3] For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity;
[4] that each one of you know how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor,
[5] not in the passion of lust like heathen who do not know God. 1 Thess 4:3-5 RSV



 
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quickfire

Guest
Originaly posted by resurection 33 We are to resist temptation, not give into it:

[3] For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity; [4] that each one of you know how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor, [5] not in the passion of lust like heathen who do not know God. 1 Thess 4:3-5 RSV

Really Nice scripture thank you .

If you read all my posts i think you will find the exact meaning to thess 4:3-5 rsv is exactly what i have Said all along .
Which is honour .
For god says if a man Shall become one and lay down with a women then he Shall become her marriage mate.
The honour is god see's two becoming one as sacred to ones heart. God Does not like to see our hearts broken .
 

NateDaGrimes

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2013
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humans are stupid to live with eachother. when will things be moral like it used to, a several month date, proposal, wait couple months to get wedding organized, dont see your bride until you both are at the altar. say the vowels and you have the rights to live with each other. i suggest after proposal the couple should still be living in their parent's home while the male will save up to get an appartment after marrage. simple as that.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Originaly posted by resurection 33 We are to resist temptation, not give into it:

[3] For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity; [4] that each one of you know how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor, [5] not in the passion of lust like heathen who do not know God. 1 Thess 4:3-5 RSV

Really Nice scripture thank you .

If you read all my posts i think you will find the exact meaning to thess 4:3-5 rsv is exactly what i have Said all along .
Which is honour .
For god says if a man Shall become one and lay down with a women then he Shall become her marriage mate.
The honour is god see's two becoming one as sacred to ones heart. God Does not like to see our hearts broken .
Jesus said not to fornicate (Mark 7:20-23). I can try to change the definition of the word "fornicate" to suit my wishes, but fornication is still fornication. Jesus said we aren't even allowed to look lustfully on a person we aren't married to (Matt 5:28).
 
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progressivenerdgirl

Guest
humans are stupid to live with eachother. when will things be moral like it used to, a several month date, proposal, wait couple months to get wedding organized, dont see your bride until you both are at the altar. say the vowels and you have the rights to live with each other. i suggest after proposal the couple should still be living in their parent's home while the male will save up to get an appartment after marrage. simple as that.
That didn't work in the middle ages, it didn't work in the 50s and it won't work today. Adding rules and micromanaging your kids ain't going to make them behave. It is neither extensive courting nor cryptic ceremony that make a relationship moral, but fidelity and an observance of the marriage covenant according to God's command and Jesus' example with his bride, the church.

Video: Is Courting Biblical? Only 3 minutes long!
 
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quickfire

Guest
Jesus said not to fornicate (Mark 7:20-23). I can try to change the definition of the word "fornicate" to suit my wishes, but fornication is still fornication. Jesus said we aren't even allowed to look lustfully on a person we aren't married to (Matt 5:28).

When two people fall in love it has nothing to do with lust ? "matt 5:28" . "Do you understand that resurrection ?. do you understand that love has nothing to with lust.

matt 5:28 refers to an already married couple "have you read the sentence before ?".

mat 5:27 You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery. matt 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mark 7:20 Has nothing to do with this subject (and please note in mark 7:20 the word fornications is used only with no context just the word and please also note fornication is pluralised? "meaning the word fornications has more one meaning to fornication.
 
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john08

Guest
Hey i think that people have a misconception about marriage. It doesnt say anywhere in Genesis that there was a marriage ceremony between Adam and EVe. It says God took Adam's rib and made a woman.People have invented all the other trappings like a ceremony, bride's maids, invitations, cake, flowers, rings and everything else as a big money making enterprise!
All of the above is just a religious invention under the guise of some scripture that doesnt exist in the bible.
Thanks, John08
 
Dec 19, 2009
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When two people fall in love it has nothing to do with lust ? "matt 5:28" . "Do you understand that resurrection ?. do you understand that love has nothing to with lust.

matt 5:28 refers to an already married couple "have you read the sentence before ?".

mat 5:27 You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery. matt 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mark 7:20 Has nothing to do with this subject (and please note in mark 7:20 the word fornications is used only with no context just the word and please also note fornication is pluralised? "meaning the word fornications has more one meaning to fornication.
Sex before marriage is a sin. You can't change the definition of the word "fornication."
 
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quickfire

Guest
Hey i think that people have a misconception about marriage. It doesnt say anywhere in Genesis that there was a marriage ceremony between Adam and EVe. It says God took Adam's rib and made a woman.People have invented all the other trappings like a ceremony, bride's maids, invitations, cake, flowers, rings and everything else as a big money making enterprise!
All of the above is just a religious invention under the guise of some scripture that doesnt exist in the bible.
Thanks, John08[/quote

i think most people get married to show there love for one another and because they are holy and because they have waited and because its very romantic.

there no need to bring the other stuff up.

the other reason are because they have had kids.

but all the things i have mentioned for most people happen because they have fell in love.

and its the same for good honest loving couples who have yet to wed.
 
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quickfire

Guest
Sex is sex until you get married.
thats says it all to me.

just a closing note to folk sorry if i have offended any one and sorry to op i hope we can be friends.

the one thing i want to say to the op and to other reading this thread .

if god sees two people in love treating each other like the way he would want them to as a sin before the blessing then i am truly sorry god for my words.

and if it is a sin then i hope and pray that god will see and examine our hearts to see how sincere we are about our partner and i hope and pray that he will forgive those who do not have the courage to walk down the wedding isle.

i also pray that that people who are not yet wed for one reason or another treat each other in the way that god would like us all to treat each other
 
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Jan 11, 2013
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That didn't work in the middle ages, it didn't work in the 50s and it won't work today. Adding rules and micromanaging your kids ain't going to make them behave. It is neither extensive courting nor cryptic ceremony that make a relationship moral, but fidelity and an observance of the marriage covenant according to God's command and Jesus' example with his bride, the church.

Video: Is Courting Biblical? Only 3 minutes long!
Few people care about dating less than me, and even fewer about ceremonies, but I have to ask, by what criteria did this setup not work? The timeline from dating to marriage here is a year or less, and is pretty streamlined. What doesn't work is the date for 3 years then think of marrying then have a 2 year engagement thing that has arisen in the last few decades. Obviously that doesn't work.

That's not even micromanagement, its just basic management.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
thats says it all to me.

just a closing note to folk sorry if i have offended any one and sorry to op i hope we can be friends.

the one thing i want to say to the op and to other reading this thread .

if god sees two people in love treating each other like the way he would want them to as a sin before the blessing then i am truly sorry god for my words.

and if it is a sin then i hope and pray that god will see and examine our hearts to see how sincere we are about our partner and i hope and pray that he will forgive those who do not have the courage to walk down the wedding isle.

i also pray that that people who are not yet wed for one reason or another treat each other in the way that god would like us all to treat each other
Quickfire... what you are completely missing is that God is a God of Covenants... and marriage is a COVENANT and that intercourse is supposed to be a COVENANTAL ACT... all sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin. However, you will not discover this TRUTH by simply picking out scriptures associated with sex. I notice your profile says you are unsure of your spiritual status. I strongly recommend you address your salvation status and worry about your marriage status later... because being properly married in the eyes of God is not going to get you to heaven... only accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior will do that.
 
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quickfire

Guest
Quickfire... what you are completely missing is that God is a God of Covenants... and marriage is a COVENANT and that intercourse is supposed to be a COVENANTAL ACT... all sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin. However, you will not discover this TRUTH by simply picking out scriptures associated with sex. I notice your profile says you are unsure of your spiritual status. I strongly recommend you address your salvation status and worry about your marriage status later... because being properly married in the eyes of God is not going to get you to heaven... only accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior will do that.[/QUOTE r

The only Scripture in the Bible where you actually find the word 'covenant' used in direct relationship to marriage is at the closing of the former testament. In response to man's cry as to why the Lord will not accept his weeping and tears, the prophet says, "Because the Lord has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant." (Malachi 2:14)

How men treat their wives is singled out as a reason the Lord refuses to answer their prayers. It seems Peter had this in mind, when he said, You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered. (1 Peter 3:7)
As for my spiritual status there is no optiimo for selection of church of england.! ,só i had to tick the option for unsure.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
Quickfire... what you are completely missing is that God is a God of Covenants... and marriage is a COVENANT and that intercourse is supposed to be a COVENANTAL ACT... all sex outside the covenant of marriage is a sin. However, you will not discover this TRUTH by simply picking out scriptures associated with sex. I notice your profile says you are unsure of your spiritual status. I strongly recommend you address your salvation status and worry about your marriage status later... because being properly married in the eyes of God is not going to get you to heaven... only accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior will do that.[/QUOTE r

The only Scripture in the Bible where you actually find the word 'covenant' used in direct relationship to marriage is at the closing of the former testament. In response to man's cry as to why the Lord will not accept his weeping and tears, the prophet says, "Because the Lord has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant." (Malachi 2:14)

How men treat their wives is singled out as a reason the Lord refuses to answer their prayers. It seems Peter had this in mind, when he said, You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered. (1 Peter 3:7)
As for my spiritual status there is no optiimo for selection of church of england.! ,só i had to tick the option for unsure.
Thank you for your answer and clarification...
However, your response regarding the word"covenant" is EXACTLY the point I am trying to point out to YOU. it seems you are trying to get your answers and basing your theology on "word studies" which is not the same as doing a "principal" or "thematic" type of study as the whole bible and it's principals, themes and allegories are ALL carefully knit together and harmonize perfectly. THere is a study called "covenants" by precept ministry which should be available to you. It is an inductive style with greek and hebrew to stimulate your sharp mind... I think you will be greatly helped in completing this study to help with your questions.
 
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quickfire

Guest
Thank you for your answer and clarification...
However, your response regarding the word"covenant" is EXACTLY the point I am trying to point out to YOU. it seems you are trying to get your answers and basing your theology on "word studies" which is not the same as doing a "principal" or "thematic" type of study as the whole bible and it's principals, themes and allegories are ALL carefully knit together and harmonize perfectly. THere is a study called "covenants" by precept ministry which should be available to you. It is an inductive style with greek and hebrew to stimulate your sharp mind... I think you will be greatly helped in completing this study to help with your questions.

I love the way you Said carefully knit togeather and harmonize perfectly.
And i also love the points you make about honour which is what marriage is all about
 
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quickfire

Guest
I'm sorry, but I can't resist asking: what is it after you get married?
Thanks for that i was feeling spiutualy clean until i read that.
I dont get it your old enogh and wise enough to answer that question for yourself.