where did sin come from?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
Faith is a gift, you can surely own it as your own.

But it didn't originate in or with you. You were not naturally born to believe the record God gave of His Son. In your natural state you were at enmity with Him, bearing fruit unto death and all spiritual matters from God were foolishness unto you.

And drop that "dictator" thing. If God didn't move with His Spirit on people, causing them to believe the gospel, none would believe. The drawing might be "forceful" if you will then, but to quicken somebody who's dead and bring him back to life is nothing but the greatest love.

1. Sorry, the dictator thing applies. whether we like it or not.
2. God created man in his image, he did not make us like animals, which have no will, but only act on instinct. He gave us a free mind so we could chose to follow him. We chose to rebell.. He chose to make a way for us to return to him..

He never forced his will on anyone, if he does. Satan is the one who is correct. Not God..

As a sinner. I can not chose to do good (with the right heart attitude which pleases God and he gets the glory) it does not mean I can not chose to be saved by his gift. based on his work.. this is just not found in scripture. sorry Bro.
 
T

truth77

Guest
#62
The redeemer will restore the earth when he comes again. See Rev 20 also Isa 2:2-4, Isa 11:6-9, Jeremiah 33:14-17, Micah 4:1-5 and so many other verses to support the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.
 
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truth77

Guest
#63
The O/T verses gives you a look at the thousand year reign and the form of government.
.
 
T

truth77

Guest
#64
Should we continue to sin after being born again?
 
Jan 24, 2013
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#65
The redeemer will restore the earth when he comes again. See Rev 20 also Isa 2:2-4, Isa 11:6-9, Jeremiah 33:14-17, Micah 4:1-5 and so many other verses to support the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.
And after 1000 years will Christ's kingdom end?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#66
Finney is never a real Christian.
hi susania.
and yet, he is a hero!
just notice how much of his stuff you hear. amazing.


The doctrine of a literal imputation of Adam’s sin to all his posterity, of the literal imputation of all the sins of the elect to Christ, and of His suffering for them the exact amount due to the transgressors, of the literal imputation of Christ’s righteousness or obedience to the elect, and the consequent perpetual justification of all that are converted from the first exercise of faith, whatever their subsequent life may be I say I regard these dogmas as fabulous, and better befitting a romance than a system of theology.

Charles G. Finney
Systematic Theology, Lecture 36, 508,509
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#67
Sin is what you DO Not what you Are!
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James1:13-15
Having a Right Concept of Sin is essential to Preaching the Gospel of Repentance and faith proven by deeds. The multiple layers of deceptions so pervasive in the Professed Christian establishment today have rendered genuine Salvation from the corruption of sin impossible. Instead of Escaping the corruption that is in the world through lust people are deceived into thinking they can be justified in their sins. Under their false sense of assurance professing Christians THINK Sin is what they Are NOT what they DO!

Ability to Choose between good and evil actions is not a factor in the outcome of Salvation because all sin is the same, everything you do is sin and even temptation is sin. This paralyzes the conscience into a state of insensitivity toward wrong doing. The human mind loses its natural ability to accuse itself when temptation arises. So the ‘way of escape’ (1Cor10:13) is not an option and sin defiles the soul. (Heb12:15)
All because the Bible Pundits have mystified Sin as something that dwells or lurks within the flesh.

But the Bible is Crystal Clear that SIN is a result of the misuse of your Free Will succumbing to temptation. As James explains; ‘by his OWN DESIRES’ a person is drawn away and enticed. The Desire unites with the Will and the result is Sin! Freedom of CHOICE is in Play during the entire process. Sin becomes Transgression of the law 1John3:4, when you submit to the passions and desires of your flesh. It is NOT inevitable because of something desperately wicked or filthy dwells within you overcoming your capacity to make a choice.

James 2:10 ‘Whoever shall keep the whole law, but yet stumble in one point is guilty of all’, is NOT telling us that ALL SINS are the Same. He is expressing the Biblical definition of Transgression! If you violate the Commandment against adultery, but not the one against Murder, are you NOT a ‘Transgressor’ of the Law? (1Jh1:4) DO you see the Logic!? The same would be true if you robbed a bank, but you didn’t steal a car, would not the LAW convict you as a Transgressor of the entire system of law!? James is NOT giving man a license to pass off their wrong doings as ‘all the same’ he is directing them to Practice the PERFECT Law of Liberty, which is FAITH WORKING BY LOVE! (thereby upholding the entire law! Rom3:31, Matt22:37-40)

Professed Christians today are the Perfect example of a Pharisee; Clean on the outside, but defiled within. They take great pride in their ‘form’ of godliness but lack any inkling of a godly life. They sin daily in thought, word and deed because they are inclined to constantly submit to the passions and desires of their flesh. After LONG PRACTICED habit sin becomes an addiction Eph2:3 …. NOT a Nature (as in something inbred) but a Physical Concept of Growth. The Greek word used in this passage is our English word Physis literally Defined: ‘the principle or concept of growth and change in nature, considered as a source of growth, something that grows and develops.’

The PERFECT description of man Misusing his free will ability to choose between right and wrong! Temptation is presented, the Desire enticed, the idea conceived, the CHOICE is Made. Thus the wages of sin takes its inevitable toll on the human soul. The Temptation itself it NOT Sin; If that were true Christ Himself would be guilty of sin. Heb4:15 says; ‘He was in ALL POINTS tempted as We are, yet Without Sin!’ If a person has an inappropriate thought running across their mind it DOES NOT Prove he is desperately wicked or wretched within (as professed Christians have been taught) It means he was Created by God with the faculties of a Moral Conscience and natural desires and inclinations. Thus temptations come and thoughts are derived from our own natural affections and surrounding environment. They only become sin if we choose to indulge them.
OUR Part is to make the Conscience CHOICE NOT to Present our members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin but as instruments of Righteousness (Right actions) to GOD! Rom6:13. In that manner Sin will no longer have Dominion over you. (next verse 6:14) BUT if your free will ability has been render inoperative by the fallacy of Sin inbred as a malady you cannot overcome, you will CONTINUOUSLY choose the path of least resistance to indulge the lust of your flesh.

That’s why Professing Christians incessantly equate minor infractions in conduct with committing adultery, getting drunk, fornicating, lusting, fleshliness, uncleanness and all types of vile behavior. Since in their minds driving over the speed limit is the same as any other vile act, WHY not go all the way into unbridled lust of the flesh! Thus is the explanation why people who suppose they have accepted Jesus as their Savior and are eternally saved WALLOW in the Pig Pen of sin without Fear of future Judgment.
To Summarize:
They View Sin as what they are Not what they Do
All men are sinners by birth and all sin is the same including temptation
Sin is inevitable and no one can ever stop sinning
It’s all one Big Lump of Sin to God so why make any effort to change

Unraveling this Deception in the minds of the people under it is impossible until they see the folly of their ways and make a determined effort to STOP sinning and Seek out God in real Repentance. But many have been held captive by these lies for so long they are no longer capable of equating their ability to make the common choices of everyday life with putting forth an effort to OBEY God. It’s as though the natural functions of their brains have been disconnected from reality. HOW can they ever see Truth:

That NOT all Sin is the Same. That man is NOT Required to be as Perfect as God, Just Perfect in Obedience to God according to the strength of their mind, heart, and soul. That there are INDEED SINS unto Death, if committed will Disqualify a person from the Kingdom of God! That 1John1:8-9 is NOT teaching that all men are born sinners and you can merely Confess vile sins of the flesh (leading to death) and be forgiven time and again, no matter what you do. And how can ANYONE who has freely Chosen to believe that their Long Practiced Addiction to the Passions and desires of their flesh is a DISEASE they inherited by the mere fact of being born human?

As a Professing Christians supposedly Saved under this deception WHERE is the motivation going to come from to Obey God and Crucify the Passions and Desires of their Flesh in Repentance? HOW can they Forsake a ‘Nature’ inbred into their flesh? This is the very reason Alcoholics, drug addicts, those addicted to sexual perversions and people with vile dispositions can never break free of their captivity to these things. Religion and Society constantly tell them they have a Disease and the best they can hope for is learning to manage the addiction and accept the fact that no one is perfect and God will forgive them in the end. Just attend the focus group meetings, read the books and cope.

Since there is no possibility of actual Escape from the corruption of sin the professed Christian world has to cast a constant stream of dispersions on anyone who HAS OBEYED God, forsaken their sin in repentance and been truly Purified in heart and mind, as liars, evil judges, angry monsters and generally unloving, unforgiving people who don’t understand God’s gracious PROVSION (salvation in sin, magic cover for sin) and are attempting to Self Justify themselves by works.

Thereby ONE Fatal flaw in the minds of men has given over an ENTIRE generation to the Captivity of sin. They are ‘Carnal Sold under Sin’, so they Preach, Teach and fully Believe as Truth and stand on the brink of a hopeless disaster wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked! Can a leopard change its spots? Can people so accustomed to doing Evil CHOOSE to do Good?
Courtesy standingthegap.org



Make it staaaahhhhp! :'(
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#68
hi susania.
and yet, he is a hero!
just notice how much of his stuff you hear. amazing.


The doctrine of a literal imputation of Adam’s sin to all his posterity, of the literal imputation of all the sins of the elect to Christ, and of His suffering for them the exact amount due to the transgressors, of the literal imputation of Christ’s righteousness or obedience to the elect, and the consequent perpetual justification of all that are converted from the first exercise of faith, whatever their subsequent life may be I say I regard these dogmas as fabulous, and better befitting a romance than a system of theology.

Charles G. Finney
Systematic Theology, Lecture 36, 508,509
He was just consistant. I respect him for that. He followed universal atonement to it's logical end.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
83
#69
1. Sorry, the dictator thing applies. whether we like it or not.
Nope. It doesn't. It is an unscriptural objection based on emotions and philosophy.

2. God created man in his image, he did not make us like animals, which have no will, but only act on instinct. He gave us a free mind so we could chose to follow him. We chose to rebell.. He chose to make a way for us to return to him..
Where is the scripture for the underlined?

He never forced his will on anyone, if he does. Satan is the one who is correct. Not God..

As a sinner. I can not chose to do good (with the right heart attitude which pleases God and he gets the glory) it does not mean I can not chose to be saved by his gift. based on his work.. this is just not found in scripture. sorry Bro.
Well, be sorry for your own unscriptural assumptions instead. Man can not please God while dead in his sins. No man can come to Christ unless the Father draws him there. Can not. Not able.

When God saves somebody it is His work alone. "And that NOT of yourselves". This means what it says. We are but fully passive recipients of an undeserved pardon. That is what scripture says and that's all we need to know.
 
T

truth77

Guest
#70
Isaiah, Ezekiel, Micah, Jeremiah, Haggai, Hosea and other all spoke of the Day of the Lord, The time of Jacobs trouble, The Tribulation 7 years period to come.
 
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truth77

Guest
#71
Brothers read 2Thess
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#72
Satan is the one who is correct.
You say this repeatedly, but I don't recall anywhere in scripture where the luciferian manifesto says:

Plank 3: "Convince the Christians that God is sovereign"

Care to provide?

As I recall, it was satan who wanted to convince man that man was autonomous.

HATH GOD REALLY SAID?
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
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#73
Are angles in heaven now continuously in jeopardy of losing they favor with God, Or was the fall of Satan a one time deal along with all of Satan's followers?
 
T

truth77

Guest
#74
Come Lord Jesus Come
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#75
So, free will is only important on this side of eternity? If God changes us (glorifies us) to where we no longer want, and cannot sin, then God hasn't violated the principle of nonviolationoffreewill that is so consistently used to stone monergists.
I never mentioned freewill, nor did it even come to mind.
Freewill seems to be a bigger issue with other certain people.
I did give some scripture that were enlightening but noone commented.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#76
School. I have to read about 120 pages today, so I probably won't post a lot. Keep the thread near the top, and maybe tomorrow afternoon I can post a bunch.
diggs i'll read your homework.
you post here:)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
Nope. It doesn't. It is an unscriptural objection based on emotions and philosophy.
Nope. it is reality based on reality. We see it all over the OT as kings forced people to do their will.. God said he was a different god and not like that.. so why do we want to make him like that?

Where is the scripture for the underlined?
it is all over scripture.. It does not have to be word for word. it is hte general theme. Why else would God create us? so he could force us to sin, then force people to not believe in him and send them to hell?

That is not what the scripture shows us, it shows God is a God of love, who wants to take care of his people as they trust him.

Well, be sorry for your own unscriptural assumptions instead. Man can not please God while dead in his sins. No man can come to Christ unless the Father draws him there. Can not. Not able.
I never said man can please god. so stop putting words in my mouth. Nor do i disagree man can not come unless God draws him. God knew who will recieve him, he knews where they are. and exactly what he has to do to get them to come to him. Why do you think so many people come in different ways by different circumstances to a faith in Christ? if it was all just God forcing them. they would all come the same way.

When God saves somebody it is His work alone. "And that NOT of yourselves".
Amen. Why do you keep bringing this up. you know we both agree with this.. If I could save myself. then I would not need God and his son died in vein.

This means what it says. We are but fully passive recipients of an undeserved pardon. That is what scripture says and that's all we need to know.
lol.. thats why we need to chose to trust HIS WORK. and not ourselves.

but this does not mean we have no ability to chose.. Faith is not a work. we can not boast of having faiht in the total work of another person. We can just boast of that person and all the work he did.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#78
You say this repeatedly, but I don't recall anywhere in scripture where the luciferian manifesto says:

Plank 3: "Convince the Christians that God is sovereign"
lol. what does this have to do with anything? Satan is trying to convince the world
1. God is not a God of love
2. God wants you to do his bidding and make him happy, He does not have you rest interests in heart (God is holding back, he knows in the day you eat you will be like him, knowing good and evil)
3. God has you on a leash and will whip you into submittion, you are forced to do his will, you have no will of your own.

those are the lies of satan.


Care to provide?

As I recall, it was satan who wanted to convince man that man was autonomous.

HATH GOD REALLY SAID?
lol.. No, it was him trying to convince man God was holding back.. when he convinced man of this. pride set in..
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#79
The big mistake of some is the division they think is there.
I already see it in here. Our way or Finnys. Too funny, and too common.
Yet it loses credibility quickly. And to me is just theatrics to play to
the hometeam.

What is the benefit? Can any elect not become and stay saved? And can any nonelect get saved?
Besides the personal division between saints i cant see the motivation, unless only
one theology will be saved i cant see the benefit or purpose.

Im still new to this arguement, so its shocking to already hear the word "stoning."
Hmm....at least its made me more reserve. Which i dont mind.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,621
281
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#80
Nope. it is reality based on reality. We see it all over the OT as kings forced people to do their will.. God said he was a different god and not like that.. so why do we want to make him like that?
I think that's poor exegesis bro. There is a greek word despotes, or Master, referring to God. However, this is not to be taken into comparision with the well known dictator of the day. Btw, isn't Obama becoming one lol? The objection against the sovereignity of God by such terms is mainly emotional or philosophy: "if God does something like that He's unjust".

it is all over scripture.. It does not have to be word for word. it is hte general theme. Why else would God create us? so he could force us to sin, then force people to not believe in him and send them to hell?
No, it is not in scripture. Scripture clearly shows us how wicked and evil and turned away from God we all are. And Christ was very clear on the lostness of the lost as well. Abundantly clear. Nothing good in man, none is righteous. Surely this has everything to do with man's abilities and will. Also as to his INABILITY AND UNWILLINGNESS to repent and believe.

That is not what the scripture shows us, it shows God is a God of love, who wants to take care of his people as they trust him.
Yes. But it doesn't imply that lost men have the ability to do so. Instead it is the very opposite. Jesus is clear: CAN NOT. Why you argue with this until now is beyond me.

I never said man can please god. so stop putting words in my mouth. Nor do i disagree man can not come unless God draws him. God knew who will recieve him, he knews where they are. and exactly what he has to do to get them to come to him. Why do you think so many people come in different ways by different circumstances to a faith in Christ? if it was all just God forcing them. they would all come the same way.
You are saying that it is within the ability of natural, carnal, unregenerate man to humble himself and have faith in Christ. You are giving the unregenerate the characteristcs of the regenerate. You have been clear on this. And you know we disagree here. You also know that I don't buy into the "God looked down the corridors of time..." as if God needed to learn something. No - He chose and predestined His people. This is what scripture says. That's what I believe. Amen.

lol.. thats why we need to chose to trust HIS WORK. and not ourselves.
And that not of ourselves.

but this does not mean we have no ability to chose.. Faith is not a work. we can not boast of having faiht in the total work of another person. We can just boast of that person and all the work he did.
Tell us where you find that "ability to chose" in scripture. Do you believe in "prevenient grace"?
 
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