Keeping You in Check

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

Chapel

Guest
#1
#1
Many people never pray until times get hard for them, and they know that only The Lord can bring them comfort.

And I don't care how many Christians deny it...the fear of eternal damnation is largely instrumental in helping them to keep their faith.

If in this world, God uses (Note: I stated "uses" not "causes") pain, suffering, and fear as a means of keeping us obedient; what tools do you think He will use to keep us in check after this world is gone, and we live in the new one?

I am assuming, since God doesn't want robots, that even in the new world we will still have a degree of free will.

But...

If in the new world, sin is gone, and everyone chooses to follow God of their own free will...can it still be considered "free will"?

In this new world God will have the exact thing people say He supposedly DOESN'T want: everyone following without question, people praying 24/7, never straying from the righteous path. Never saying or doing anything unrelated to the devotion to our God.

Sounds like robots to me. I could be content with that, and I imagine others can as well.

But can God?

If proof of your our and faith in God is tested through our obedience and devotion to Him in the face of fear and trials; what will be the proof of our love when all of those things are gone, and we follow blindly because we have no other choice?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#2
#2
Chapel said:
Many people never pray until times get hard for them, and they know that only The Lord can bring them comfort.

And I don't care how many Christians deny it...the fear of eternal damnation is largely instrumental in helping them to keep their faith.

If in this world, God uses (Note: I stated "uses" not "causes") pain, suffering, and fear as a means of keeping us obedient; what tools do you think He will use to keep us in check after this world is gone, and we live in the new one?

I am assuming, since God doesn't want robots, that even in the new world we will still have a degree of free will.

But...

If in the new world, sin is gone, and everyone chooses to follow God of their own free will...can it still be considered "free will"?

In this new world God will have the exact thing people say He supposedly DOESN'T want: everyone following without question, people praying 24/7, never straying from the righteous path. Never saying or doing anything unrelated to the devotion to our God.

Sounds like robots to me. I could be content with that, and I imagine others can as well.

But can God?

If proof of your our and faith in God is tested through our obedience and devotion to Him in the face of fear and trials; what will be the proof of our love when all of those things are gone, and we follow blindly because we have no other choice?
Click to expand...
Are you saying that the Holy angels can sin ?
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#3
#3
Chapel said:
Many people never pray until times get hard for them, and they know that only The Lord can bring them comfort.

And I don't care how many Christians deny it...the fear of eternal damnation is largely instrumental in helping them to keep their faith.

If in this world, God uses (Note: I stated "uses" not "causes") pain, suffering, and fear as a means of keeping us obedient; what tools do you think He will use to keep us in check after this world is gone, and we live in the new one?

I am assuming, since God doesn't want robots, that even in the new world we will still have a degree of free will.

But...

If in the new world, sin is gone, and everyone chooses to follow God of their own free will...can it still be considered "free will"?

In this new world God will have the exact thing people say He supposedly DOESN'T want: everyone following without question, people praying 24/7, never straying from the righteous path. Never saying or doing anything unrelated to the devotion to our God.

Sounds like robots to me. I could be content with that, and I imagine others can as well.

But can God?

If proof of your our and faith in God is tested through our obedience and devotion to Him in the face of fear and trials; what will be the proof of our love when all of those things are gone, and we follow blindly because we have no other choice?
Click to expand...
Rubbish! It may be true for a time in one's life as a Christian (I feared such a thing for several years) but that's certainly not the main reason people remain followers of Christ. I believe most grow beyond that point to where they exclusively love God because of who He is and what He's done.
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#4
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#4
"Perfect love casts out fear".

What holds me in such a strong faith is knowing (experiencing) how much He loves me.
 
C

Chapel

Guest
#5
#5
ELECT said:
Are you saying that the Holy angels can sin ?
Click to expand...
Did not Lucifer rebel along with a portion of Heaven's angel? So yea...I would say it is possible.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#6
#6
Chapel said:
Did not Lucifer rebel along with a portion of Heaven's angel? So yea...I would say it is possible.
Click to expand...
therefore we should look for a part three in the future because one of God angels will rebel
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#7
#7
Chapel said:
Did not Lucifer rebel along with a portion of Heaven's angel? So yea...I would say it is possible.
Click to expand...
So the saints in the kingdom will also possible rebel in the new ?
 
C

Chapel

Guest
#8
#8
Tintin said:
Rubbish! It may be true for a time in one's life as a Christian (I feared such a thing for several years) but that's certainly not the main reason people remain followers of Christ. I believe most grow beyond that point to where they exclusively love God because of who He is and what He's done.
Click to expand...
As you admitted yourself; getting to that point is not instantaneous.
 
C

Chapel

Guest
#10
#10
ELECT said:
So the saints in the kingdom will also possible rebel in the new ?
Click to expand...
It is not for me to say if that will happen or not...and it is you, not I making suggestions that another rebellion could happen.

The original post was simply to ask what it is keeps us in line with the will of God, if free will still exists.

Got a couple of pretty good answers.
 
Bride

Bride

Banned
#11
Oct 24, 2014
595
14
0
#11
Chapel said:
Many people never pray until times get hard for them, and they know that only The Lord can bring them comfort.

And I don't care how many Christians deny it...the fear of eternal damnation is largely instrumental in helping them to keep their faith.

If in this world, God uses (Note: I stated "uses" not "causes") pain, suffering, and fear as a means of keeping us obedient; what tools do you think He will use to keep us in check after this world is gone, and we live in the new one?

I am assuming, since God doesn't want robots, that even in the new world we will still have a degree of free will.

But...

If in the new world, sin is gone, and everyone chooses to follow God of their own free will...can it still be considered "free will"?

In this new world God will have the exact thing people say He supposedly DOESN'T want: everyone following without question, people praying 24/7, never straying from the righteous path. Never saying or doing anything unrelated to the devotion to our God.

Sounds like robots to me. I could be content with that, and I imagine others can as well.

But can God?

If proof of your our and faith in God is tested through our obedience and devotion to Him in the face of fear and trials; what will be the proof of our love when all of those things are gone, and we follow blindly because we have no other choice?
Click to expand...
My honey, you could write a science fiction book with all that imagination :)

But seriously, if you are interested in knowing anything about any of this, pick up your Bible, or plug in the Bible disc and become familiar with the full disclosure and joy associated with being filled with knowledge, then understanding, then wisdom! Then, instead of asking questions that don't relate to what really is, you will begin to absorb answers to real questions you didn't even know to ask haha! That's how it works with God through His Word. It is miraculous. It is the only true Spiritual experience you will ever know, if you want to know. So that's my two cents :)
In His LOVE
 
C

Chapel

Guest
#12
#12
Thank you for your two cents Bride; there is great wisdom in your words. However...I have read much of the Bible. And honestly, while it answers many questions, it also gives birth to many more.

I will admit that I ask questions which may not seem relevant in the larger scheme of things; but is that not why God gave us a mind? To inquire, to discover, to communicate, to express ones self. Not just settle.

Thanks again. I love the way you think!
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#13
#13
well, sure God gave us minds...but they are broken because we are broken people.

thus, we rely on the sufficiency of Christ.
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#14
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#14
Chapel - let there be some mystery. The Holy Spirit is the one who brings us into all truth (Jesus said this)...and there are some things he lets remain hidden from us. He didn't say that your mind would do this. It is the Holy Spirit's work. People try to guess at so many things using their own intellect and then comes the confusion. I don't try too hard to figure things out.

I trust that what I need to know, I will discover as I read the Word. And every few years, I see different things in the same Word I read. Maybe because I'm in a different place.

One thing for sure - it keeps me reading over and over again the bible. Maybe that's what He wants.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#15
#15
Chapel said:
As you admitted yourself; getting to that point is not instantaneous.
Click to expand...
True, but that's not the point you were arguing. You proposed the belief that it was the fear of eternal damnation that largely held Christians in check and kept them in the fold.
 
C

Chapel

Guest
#16
#16
Tintin said:
True, but that's not the point you were arguing.
You proposed the belief that it was the fear of eternal damnation that largely held Christians in check and kept them in the fold.
Click to expand...
It is.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

I have seen the various aspects of human nature; and it is difficult to deny that people act a particular way because they fear the consequence of what will happen to them if they don't.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#17
#17
Chapel said:
It is.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

I have seen the various aspects of human nature; and it is difficult to deny that people act a particular way because they fear the consequence of what will happen to them if they don't.
Click to expand...
Really? How many Christians do you know in real life? Two?
 
C

Chapel

Guest
#18
#18
Many. And most throw insults as quickly as you do.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#19
#19
Chapel said:
It is not for me to say if that will happen or not...and it is you, not I making suggestions that another rebellion could happen.

The original post was simply to ask what it is keeps us in line with the will of God, if free will still exists.

Got a couple of pretty good answers.
Click to expand...
Do the Holy angels have free will or are they robots ?
 
C

Chapel

Guest
#20
#20
ELECT said:
Do the Holy angels have free will or are they robots ?
Click to expand...
I have heard arguments for both sides.

There is no possible way that I could know for sure; but considering that some did indeed turn against the will of God, I would like to think that they do have free will...to some degree.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.