Things You Cannot Unsee & Hatred

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NikkiK

Guest
#1
This morning I read upon a posting on another site about a festival of EID where the Muslims were butchering a camel alive but stripping the meat off its flesh as it struggled to get away.

Sometimes there are things I read or see, especially with the internet, that affect me very negatively. The world can be very horrifying. I am not a person with a thick skin and I am not desensitized. In general I read a lot of articles and I pray a lot as I read them.

My struggle is with hatred on these things. I am talking about reading crimes against children, rape, torture, murder, harming and killing animals horrifically.

As a Christian I struggle to not hate the person/s associated with the crime instead of just the deed. I struggle to see them as Jesus would see them.

Once I was driving and I was thinking about a crime that happened close to here. The man raped a little girl and killed her mother, it was a random crime. I was crying and I was talking to God about it and told Him it broke my heart and how much I hated that person and how evil they were and he said "It breaks my heart too because this was not just one of my children but three" (including the murderer/rapist)

I understand all sin is equal in Gods eyes but may have different levels of consequences in this world. I realize I am no better in that if I hate in my heart I murder as well.

Many Christians do not believe in the death penalty for good reasons but I do. I believe sometimes there is evil so strong that to protect the world from it that we need the be rid of it.

My questions are:

Is it important to really know the truth and know these things happen?
How do you see these horrifying things and not be broken from it?
Should we desensitize ourselves?
How do we love the people who do such heinous crimes?
How do we separate the sin from the sinner?

I would like to hear how other people deal with this and how they live out the love of Jesus regardless of the evil. Please please no snarky replies or condescension or attitude I will ignore it. I can't deal with that today...
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#2
We can love Jesus and still put evil in its place. If that means killing said evil, then so be it.
 
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NikkiK

Guest
#3
We can love Jesus and still put evil in its place. If that means killing said evil, then so be it.
Are the people evil or just the actions they take?
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#4
I think some people are downright evil. How they became evil, I dont know, but that is not changing what I reckon to be the cold, hard facts. I'm not sure about the death penalty, but if there is no doubt...no doubt at all, and not that beyond reasonable doubt standard...then I might could be accepting it for some felonies...like the one you wrote about above...I can feel tears are coming to my eyes thinking of it:(

I'm not sure that I can love people like that...I know this is sinful speech...but I just cant...
 
N

NikkiK

Guest
#5
I think some people are downright evil. How they became evil, I dont know, but that is not changing what I reckon to be the cold, hard facts. I'm not sure about the death penalty, but if there is no doubt...no doubt at all, and not that beyond reasonable doubt standard...then I might could be accepting it for some felonies...like the one you wrote about above...I can feel tears are coming to my eyes thinking of it:(

I'm not sure that I can love people like that...I know this is sinful speech...but I just cant...
That is how I feel...
 
S

Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#6
My questions are:

Is it important to really know the truth and know these things happen?
Some would prefer not to and that's their prerogative. Personally, I believe it's important to be cognizant, even if we don't have all of the facts (I mean, how can we ever have all of the facts?).
How do you see these horrifying things and not be broken from it?
Not sure if you're asking for personal experiences or more of a general response. Personally, it cuts me up inside.
Should we desensitize ourselves?
To suffering? Pft! Heck no.
How do we love the people who do such heinous crimes?
To ask that implies conditional love. Recall Mark 12:30-31. Beyond that, I leave how and who you love up to you.
How do we separate the sin from the sinner?
Why should we? Forgiveness is not a get out of jail free card. We're judged by our words and our works. "Hate the sin, but love the sinner" can be a dangerous theology.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#8
Out of the heart the mouth speaks, the feet run, and the hands shed innocent blood.

It's why man truly needs a heart transplant; lately the world has been seeing a lot of how wicked and evil man's heart truly is apart from the new birth.
 
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NikkiK

Guest
#9
Thank you all for the replies.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#10
I honestly don't know what to say that could shed any light.

In my lifetime, I have gone from having to be pulled off a mental charge of mine by three other aides (he was a child molester who was actually writing a book about his crimes, and it got the better of me one day,).... to later benevolently working with all sorts of Sex Offenders in a clinical setting (including, largely, child molesters) to help them overcome their deviant propensities.

I also used to "hate" homosexuals with a passion. I won't even go into the openly violent things I did as a younger man. Now, I don't know... I just see them with entirely different eyes.

I'd like to "boast" that it was God, but maybe it is no more than just getting more mellow in my old age. I've, likewise changed from telling Mormons, to their faces that they were in league with the devil, to now, truly understanding (though not agreeing with) how and why they see many things in the Bible as they do.

In short, I don't think I can hate anymore, although, I know, full well, that under the right circumstances, I could certainly kill with the comfortable dispatch I honestly "looked forward to" in the Military.
 
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NikkiK

Guest
#11
Maybe it is a level of maturity in Christ?
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#12
Maybe it is a level of maturity in Christ?
I have no idea. I still get frustrated, and angry... even spiteful and vindictive. But, thankfully, not often.
 
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NikkiK

Guest
#13
I have no idea. I still get frustrated, and angry... even spiteful and vindictive. But, thankfully, not often.
Then maybe this is natural, especially for things of this nature. ? I felt like since I might hate "them" so much that I am failing at Christs love you know? And also judgment. I know we are supposed to use discernment but I have damned such people to hell in my mind you know.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#14
Then maybe this is natural, especially for things of this nature. ? I felt like since I might hate "them" so much that I am failing at Christs love you know? And also judgment. I know we are supposed to use discernment but I have damned such people to hell in my mind you know.
"Natural?" Yes, probably. But I am coming to believe it is not at all what we were intended to be.

I have an aging hippie friend who wrote a book, The Jesus Driven Life. We argue a lot about what I see as the need for a violence defensiveness, and he sees as the antithesis of Christ's will. I really do recommend the read.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,374
113
#15
The more I am confronted with my own sin, the more I am able to see that of others with an attitude of grace. And yes, I still get angry, hurt, verbally violent, etc. However, some things are inherently wrong, and part of our role is to be salt... which preserves the good, and light, which distinguishes darkness. Still, I have more grace for those who sin like I do than those who sin differently.

I suspect that few people have lived such peaceful sheltered lives that their most troubling thing is a chicken bone. Most people have been exposed to the brokenness of this world in horrifying and heart-wrenching ways. International media only serves to bring the brokenness (which has always been there) into our homes and our minds. To some extent we can choose what we watch, and we should. Yet we are going to be exposed to (or even suffer) brokenness at the hands of misguided or evil people. How we handle that exposure indicates to some extent how much growing we still have to do. I have lots left!

God is not the author of the wrongdoing, but I cautiously believe that He allows it because He has a higher purpose. Don't hear me impugning God (far from it!) but I'm affirming Romans 8:28 and Isaiah 45:7 and Isaiah 55:9. I think He allows the exposure to instill in us a greater understanding of His nature and our sinfulness, that we would seek to be like Him in righteousness. As for people being punished for heinous crimes, I think immediately of Romans 13:4. /Sermon off :rolleyes:
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#16
PROBLEM:
ROMANS 7:18.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me;
but how to perform that which is good I find not.

SOLUTION:
ROMANS 8:1.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


 

SkittlePumpkin

Senior Member
Sep 13, 2015
1,666
146
63
#17
I sometimes think, what happens if God were to suddenly open the eyes of the hearts of these vicious, evil, criminals and they genuinely repent and accept Christ as their personal saviour? I mean, he did this for Saul, afterall. How incredibly, painfully difficult it would be living with the things they've done; trying to come to terms with the fact that, yes, God has indeed forgiven them and loves them immensely and unconditionally. There would almost certainly still be other Christians telling this person that they deserve no less than the death penalty. And if they hear it from fellow believers...how could they believe in God's love for them? I mean, technically, we all deserve the death penalty, don't we?
 
N

NikkiK

Guest
#18
I sometimes think, what happens if God were to suddenly open the eyes of the hearts of these vicious, evil, criminals and they genuinely repent and accept Christ as their personal saviour? I mean, he did this for Saul, afterall. How incredibly, painfully difficult it would be living with the things they've done; trying to come to terms with the fact that, yes, God has indeed forgiven them and loves them immensely and unconditionally. There would almost certainly still be other Christians telling this person that they deserve no less than the death penalty. And if they hear it from fellow believers...how could they believe in God's love for them? I mean, technically, we all deserve the death penalty, don't we?
Yes...and I do believe that people can change...with Gods help...
 

SkittlePumpkin

Senior Member
Sep 13, 2015
1,666
146
63
#19
Also, maybe this is a good place to put this. I dunno if any of you had heard of an incident that happened here in Canada back in 2008. They call him the Greyhound Bus Beheader. I won't get into the details of this story, but I remember upon hearing it, I was incredibly disturbed and had to step outside at work. I don't know why, but my very first instinct was to pray for the murderer, even before family and friends of the victim. I thought of that a little while ago and found this interview that had been conducted with the murderer. It broke my heart.
Q&A with Greyhound bus beheader Vince Li | National Post
 

PhnxPr2416

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2015
223
2
18
#20
The more I am confronted with my own sin, the more I am able to see that of others with an attitude of grace. And yes, I still get angry, hurt, verbally violent, etc. However, some things are inherently wrong, and part of our role is to be salt... which preserves the good, and light, which distinguishes darkness. Still, I have more grace for those who sin like I do than those who sin differently.

I suspect that few people have lived such peaceful sheltered lives that their most troubling thing is a chicken bone. Most people have been exposed to the brokenness of this world in horrifying and heart-wrenching ways. International media only serves to bring the brokenness (which has always been there) into our homes and our minds. To some extent we can choose what we watch, and we should. Yet we are going to be exposed to (or even suffer) brokenness at the hands of misguided or evil people. How we handle that exposure indicates to some extent how much growing we still have to do. I have lots left!

God is not the author of the wrongdoing, but I cautiously believe that He allows it because He has a higher purpose. Don't hear me impugning God (far from it!) but I'm affirming Romans 8:28 and Isaiah 45:7 and Isaiah 55:9. I think He allows the exposure to instill in us a greater understanding of His nature and our sinfulness, that we would seek to be like Him in righteousness. As for people being punished for heinous crimes, I think immediately of Romans 13:4. /Sermon off :rolleyes:
I couldn't have put it any better.