Anyone understand blood count tests?

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Depleted

Guest
#1
John bleed out about half a cup yesterday, so they took him to the ER two hours after it happened. At the ER, they immediately gave him a blood test. His count was 920. They diagnosed the cause, and it's a pretty mundane thing most adults get in their lives. And when it does happen to us, it doesn't even warrant a trip to the doctor's, once more a trip to the ER.

But John was bleeding internally enough from last November to most of April that he needed at least 50 pints of blood. The cause for that is over. (They took him off Warfarin.) So they wanted to wait and give him another blood test in four hours. They did and his blood count was down to 850. He spent the night in the ICU.

Now his doctors are saying it's not dropping anymore, so he'll be fine.

My question: He bled out two hours before the first blood test and then six hours before the next one. He really did stop bleeding, so why did the blood count drop that much later?
 
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Miri

Guest
#2
Hi lynn I found this but don't know how accurate it is.

Because the hematocrit is a percentage of red blood cells, as
compared to the total volume of blood, any increase or decrease
in plasma volume affects the hematocrit. A patient with a severe
burn loses huge amounts of plasma from damaged capillaries.
As a result, the vascular space loses fluid in relation to cellular
elements and the patient's hematocrit will be significantly increased.
A decreased hematocrit occurs due to overhydration, which lowers
the percentage of red blood cells in relation to the liquid plasma
portion of blood.



A hematocrit is frequently done to assess the extent of significant
blood loss. A hematocrit that is done immediately after a hemorrhage
usually does not show the extent of RBC loss because at the time
of the hemorrhage, plasma and red blood cells are lost in equal
proportions. However, within several hours after hemorrhage, plasma
volume increases due to a shift of interstitial fluid into the vascular space.

Red blood cells, however, cannot be replaced quickly, as the bone marrow
takes approximately ten days to produce mature red blood cells. As a result,
a hematocrit done several hours after a bleeding episode will show a more
accurate picture - the hematocrit will be decreased because the plasma
volume has compensated for fluid loss while the red blood cells that have
been lost cannot be replaced for days. It is important for the nurse to
remember that a hematocrit value must always be interpreted in relation
to the patient's hydration status and to the time the sample was drawn.
When packed red blood cells are given to correct an anemia, the hematocrit
should rise approximately 3% for each unit transfused.


How a patient responds to a low hematocrit depends on whether the blood
loss is acute or chronic. If a person with a normal blood cell volume loses
blood suddenly through a massive hemorrhage, the person may develop
signs and symptoms of circulatory shock; the blood pressure will fall and
the patient will show signs of tissue hypoxia and shock. However, a person
with chronically low hemoglobin, such as a patient on renal dialysis, may
tolerate abnormally low hemoglobin. A major reason for anemia in patients
with renal failure is lack of erythropoetin to stimulate bone marrow production.





Hematocrit - Complete Blood Count
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,646
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#3
i gotta say, i am perplexed at the number?

any hematocrit i've ever seen in a CBC uses a muuuch lower number to represent the results.

 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
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#4
He is probably severely anemic. But then he'd have no blood at all, so I dunno.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#5
You need to be a little more definitive on what the count is of. Blood is made up of many components. Plasma, basically the fluid that carries everything else; red blood cells which carry oxygen; white blood cells which together with T-cells fight infections; and platelets, which provide the clotting action that stops bleeding. And like it was said above, an increase or decrease in one or more of these things affects the whole ratio of the components. Was hubby on an IV? Depending on what they were giving him, that could have an effect. A lot of IV's are little more than sugar water, intended to keep an open access thru which doctors can then give various medications and solutions, rather than having to poke the patient time and time again with needles. So if he started out at 1000 ppm, filling his system with water could drop that ratio to 850 ppm just by diluting the bloodstream. Ratios can also be affected by one's body, if your body stops or slows in producing certain components of course then those component numbers are going to drop. So when you say his 'blood count' went from 900 to 850, you really have to define what component that count addressed - red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, plasma... since the issue is the bleeding I would assume it referred to the platelets.

Warfarin is a dangerous drug. It's the main component of rat poison, which causes rats to die from internal bleeding. There are several safer alternatives to it now, with the caveat that these alternatives don't have an antidote (warfarin can be counteracted with doses of vitamin K in cases of bleeding).

I pray his flesh be covered and filled with the Blood of Christ - and that he receive a full healing!
 
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#6
This is why I don't understand this stuff. One hospital told me what the white blood cell count was, because over 7-10 means "infection." Then next hospital starts talking in 100s, instead of single digits. And they aren't talking white blood cells, but as often as I ask, they keep saying the same stuff over and over again like if they say it often enough some magic knowledge pops up in either one of our brains and we go, "Ooooh, that's what it means."

I was told for normal healthy men, the number is 900-1100, and for women it's 1100-1400. For John, they didn't give him a transfusion until it hit 700 or lower in this hospital, but 750 in the nursing home. Even they can't figure out what a good number is.

BUT I was also told that because the bedsore penetrated into the bone, that screwed up everything. Blood is made by the marrow, and once there is damage down to the marrow, Marrow goes into hyper vigilant and won't produce more. I kind of pictured it like the body gives up sending blood to fingers and toes when someone is in hypothermia, because it's busy using the blood to protect the organs.

But, that's why it was good he got into the 900s. He finally hit the point that says his bone is healed and his body is back into producing blood again.

No mention of "hemocrit" no matter who ever tried to explain this to me. That might be a British word. And, yes, he was extremely anemic for quite some time, so they had him go over to the hospital every week for five weeks to get an IV of iron. It worked. He stopped being anemic.

And, yeah, I know all the bad things about Warfarin, but now that John's off it, he has a 5-7% chance of getting a stroke every year. The two problems he has was plaque on the walls of his arteries and a free forming clot in his leg, so sticky blood cells are coursing through his veins and other sticky cells are collecting on the walls of his veins. It took them four months to decide to take him off the Warfarin. (Well, he was on Heparin for two months, and, at one point, both for a few days, and he's still on Plavix and aspirin. At one point he was on all four, which MY doctor swears no one would do, but I've since discovered my doctor has a batting average of right thinking that is about .009. I could guess medical advice more accurately than he can. Law of Averages, not medial school training.) He's had to have at least 50 pints of blood, mostly because of the drugs to stop cells from sticking together. It terrifies me that they were more concerned he'd have a stroke than he'd bleed out internally, considering how often he was bleeding out internally.

Even John wonders if maybe he should go back on the anti-clotting meds. It's deciding between quality of life and quantity.

But, his latest blood count went up 10-20 more points. (Two tests), so it looks like he's back on the mends with that.

I just wish I could figure out what that is, now because they're telling him his lup-a-something-anothers are too high, which says he's not peeing enough and his kidneys might be freaking out, but, once again, the same numbers tell the nursing home doctor that he's fine.

And now he has diarrhea, which I suspect is like the MRSA they found in him -- a sign this hospital is unsafe on a sanitary level along with its incompetence levels. It drives me nuts that they either feel a need to talk in medicalese enough to make sure we don't understand or they lie to us about what the test say. And, I know they're lying because of this MRSA they found on him. The last time they found it, they had him on antibiotics for weeks. This time they said, word-for-word, the same thing they said last time, but to tell us why they aren't treating him with antibiotics.

If he can't get out of that hospital tomorrow, as they promised because of this diarrhea, I really want to transfer him to a competent hospital instead. That means we pay for what Medicare doesn't, but I would rather pay off a bill we can never fully pay off for the rest of our lives, then him stay there.

He wants to go back to that rehab, because he can get 2-4 weeks more free rehab. We're just about all set to go to send him to another rehab. We're waiting for a vacancy. We can afford two months easily, and after that would be a struggle, but as of Saturday, he only needed a couple of weeks in that one before he came home. Six weeks tops! He won't do it strictly because of the amount of money it would cost. We've been paying a mortgage for 25 years. We've bought cars with payment plans. We've been in debt to someone for decades, but this debt he cannot accept.

Six weeks in that hellhole again will break both of our spirits forever. He WILL give up and die. He's dangling by a thread every time he gets stuck in there. He's not allowed personal stuff because all the space is needed for the staff to put their supplies on. The two things he skips doing when there is read his Bible and Spurgeon's devotional. They're literally stopping God from comforting him, just because it's easier for them to plop needles, bandages and medication on HIS bed table. Both can fit, but it's less convenient for them.

If anyone has been hearing about the ineffectiveness of the VA system, this is one story. I met men with worst stories. I've followed a casket out of the building for one story. Last year that nursing home lost 100 patients. Yes, it's a nursing home, so that's ultimately what patients do, but I am pretty sure they have less than 200 patients in it.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#7
Tell them you specifically want to know what the numbers refer to, and what they tell you -

Red blood cell count (RBC) - carries oxygen, the higher the better. Normal 4.9 to 5.9

White blood cell count (WBC) - infection fighters, the lower the better. Normal 4.0 to 11.0

Platelets - clotting agents - the higher the number the less he should bleed. Normal 150 to 400

Plasma - the fluid it all flows in. It should make up about 55% of total blood volume. The lower the number the thicker the blood is (harder to flow) the higher the number the thinner the blood is (flows easier but more likely to bleed). Test results typically show it's makeup but not the overall percentage.

If they won't explain it to you in English, demand a copy of the results and look it up for yourself.

And yes, hospital acquired infections are a big problem these days, no matter where you go. You know that thing about pestilence and disease in the end times? Hang on it's gonna get worse.




In answer to the quality over quantity issue - I'm the wrong guy to talk to. I'll take quality over quantity any day.

God bless you
 
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Depleted

Guest
#8
Tell them you specifically want to know what the numbers refer to, and what they tell you -

Red blood cell count (RBC) - carries oxygen, the higher the better. Normal 4.9 to 5.9

White blood cell count (WBC) - infection fighters, the lower the better. Normal 4.0 to 11.0

Platelets - clotting agents - the higher the number the less he should bleed. Normal 150 to 400

Plasma - the fluid it all flows in. It should make up about 55% of total blood volume. The lower the number the thicker the blood is (harder to flow) the higher the number the thinner the blood is (flows easier but more likely to bleed). Test results typically show it's makeup but not the overall percentage.

If they won't explain it to you in English, demand a copy of the results and look it up for yourself.

And yes, hospital acquired infections are a big problem these days, no matter where you go. You know that thing about pestilence and disease in the end times? Hang on it's gonna get worse.




In answer to the quality over quantity issue - I'm the wrong guy to talk to. I'll take quality over quantity any day.

God bless you
Did you notice none of those numbers relate to 900-1100, 1100-1400, or even 7-7.5? (The last numbers also mean 700-750. That's what I meant when I said some places do double digits and some places do single digits. His nursing home says "he needs 750, at least." The hospital calls that 7.5, but only demands he be at 7.) I do know what red and white blood cell counts are, but whatever they're talking abut has to do with blood, but doesn't match any numbers I can find online, including what you wrote.

I can picture three doctors and an I-never-figured-out-who-she-was telling me what the numbers mean in the course of four months. (The first two months they were more worried about white blood cell count, since his spiked up to 47 one day.) And yet, besides repeating numbers, and telling me that below 7 means he's working with too little blood, I still means.

As for quantity vs. quality, we both agree with you in theory -- quality wins. I think his fear is if he has a stroke, he has to start all over again getting better, and there is no guarantee he will. A stroke may well be quantity over quality, and yet his mind is intact mostly so he's fully aware he might be left with nothing but his mind.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#9
I think you have the right to have someone from the hospital sit down with you (or at the very least let you call them) and have them explain all those numbers and words and letters and stuff.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#11
I think you have the right to have someone from the hospital sit down with you (or at the very least let you call them) and have them explain all those numbers and words and letters and stuff.
They have. Multiple times. But they're speaking medicalese so much it doesn't translate. And check out the link you gave me. It doesn't translate into any of that.

(Although, now I know what they're talking about with lip-a-something another. It's lipoproteins! His are borderline high! Big whoop! He just started using his bladder again a week or so ago, so it is bound to be off kilter for a bit. Once again, they simply didn't look at his file and expected him to answer their questions even when asked in medicalese. So, yay! Finally figured out one word they used. lol)
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#12
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Depleted

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#13
I asked the Nurse Admin at John's nursing home today. It's hemoglobins. So according to the Internet, what they consider great for John stinks for any healthy person! His doctor said he should be between 900-1100. No wonder I could never figure out what it meant.

And now seeing what the Internet says compared to what everyone else is telling us, I STILL don't know what it means!
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#14
That makes no sense whatsoever , I thought it was measured as grams/ dl or as % .... maybe it's just us Vikings being odd doing it differently....

Anyway
Hemoglobin is what carries oxygen. It contains protein and iron. (Which is why otherwise healthy people tend to claim they have "little blood" when they really lack iron)